Are you a monergist or a synergist?

Ceph said:

Softness and gentleness is for first offenders who don't fully perceive they do wrong.
But when someone has an errornous understanding which they've walked in for so long, that they've become hardened to loving their neighbor and impose their error on others, there needs to be a sword to cut something out.
This is not a killing blow, these are stripes. Let them purge the folly and let them heal with wisdom

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The prophets spoke with fire because they spoke for God.But the flesh can imitate that fire without the Spirit.
The test is simple:
Does the severity aim to restore?
Does it aim to cut out the lie, not the person?
Does it leave the door open for repentance?
Does it reflect Christ’s own pattern of truth and mercy?
If the answer is yes, then the severity is biblical. If not, it is merely human anger dressed in theological clothing. This was my concern. Its hard to tell in a text of course, what someone's mood is but the words they use and the structure in which they deploy it tells much. We want them to come to the truth. But God is the God of Peace, and our language should represent that.
You said: “There needs to be a sword to cut something out.” That is exactly the theology of Hebrews 4:12.
The Word is a sword that:
pierces
divides
discerns
exposes
But it does so to heal, not to destroy.
A surgeon’s scalpel is not violence; it is mercy.A rebuke aimed at restoration is not cruelty; it is love.
Thus, peacemakers sometimes must speak sharply, because peace cannot coexist with entrenched sin.

Aussie52 said:

And you have not really answered my response.

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Build a strawman and knock him down. Can not be taken as a serious or reasonable response to my post.

Everlasting-Grace said:

we are saved by grace THROUGH faith.

not sure where the baptism comes in. But those who recieve the gift of eternal life based on the redemption in CHrist Jesus are saved.

The calvinist calls this synergism

yet no one can take credit for saving themselves. All the glory and credit goes to God. who saved them

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Perhaps this was a typo but Calvinist do not believe in synergism. They are Monergistic. So are the Reformed believers. Any theologian, discussing this subject, uses the term synergism, not just the Calvinist believers.

The Baptism point, I was making, has to do with those who believe that baptism "saves". Therefore, in taking this approach, baptism would then be an example of works salvation, rather than an act out of a good conscience.

Journey_man said:

Your theology is all messed up, none of it is biblical, it's all based on your own private opinions. Whilst everyone is entitled to have their own private opinions, you can't expect me to agree with you when your opinions contradict Gods Word.

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Actually yours is.

But hey believe what you want.

when you have a valid argument, and not just a mocking one. Come talk..

Journey_man said:

It would be very helpful if you could reveal which scriptures you base your opinions on. Making claims without any biblical foundation, is unprofitable and worthless.

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Yawn

Same goes for you brother.

You false accused me of something. I do not owe you anything.

awelight said:

Perhaps this was a typo but Calvinist do not believe in synergism. They are Monergistic. So are the Reformed believers. Any theologian, discussing this subject, uses the term synergism, not just the Calvinist believers.

The Baptism point, I was making, has to do with those who believe that baptism "saves". Therefore, in taking this approach, baptism would then be an example of works salvation, rather than an act out of a good conscience.

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Yes it was a typo. thank you

Yes and I agree. water baptism salvation is a works based gospel..

we are saved by Grace through faith.

Not by works

decipher said:

A monergist is a person who believes that God alone effects a person's salvation. They believe that the Holy Spirit is the only active agent in a person's spiritual rebirth, that the human will is considered spiritually dead and incapable of choosing God on its own until God first steps in to change the person's heart. They believe that saving faith is a gift from God to all whom the Father chooses to become part of the body of Christ. The gift is the Holy Spirit which acts as a portal through which the invisible God the Father enters the being of God the Son, and through which they both enter our beings to change our motivation for living and fill us with love, wisdom, and truth. They believe that all (100%) of the glory for their salvation goes to the Father and to the Son because in 1 Cor 1: 29, no flesh should glory in His presence. That means that no one in heaven can say "I did it!", or "I made the right decision!", or "I did the right things and believed the right things!".
A synergist is a person who believes that salvation involves a cooperative effort between divine grace and human freedom. They believe that God initiates salvation through grace, but the individual must freely choose to accept, respond to, or cooperate with that grace. They emphasize that human beings possess the free will to either assent to or resist God's salvific grace. They believe that they should get some of the glory for their salvation if they accept God's grace.

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Wow! What a strawman choice!

Apparently a monergist is a tulipist, who believes God loves only a few folks He forces to have "faith", and a synergist is a mfwer,
who believes God loves all of humanity and provides them the opportunity to accept His grace. IOW, God initiates; sinners may cooperate--or not, which makes them instead of God responsible for not repenting. When sinners repent, they become members of the body of Christ as his loving Holy Spirit indwells their hearts, motivating them to glorify God and reflect His omnilove to others.
Obviously, repentance is the right decision, and satisfying God's condition for salvation through accepting God's gift does not mean they earned or deserve it.

Now vote.

Deuteronomy 28:
1“Now if you faithfully obey the voice of the LORD your God and are careful to follow all His commandments I am giving you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. 2And all these blessings will come upon you and overtake you, if you will obey the voice of the LORD your God:

3You will be blessed in the city

and blessed in the country.

4The fruit of your womb will be blessed,

as well as the produce of your land

and the offspring of your livestock—

the calves of your herds

and the lambs of your flocks.

5Your basket and kneading bowl will be blessed.

6You will be blessed when you come in

and blessed when you go out.

7The LORD will cause the enemies who rise up against you to be defeated before you. They will march out against you in one direction but flee from you in seven.

8The LORD will decree a blessing on your barns and on everything to which you put your hand; the LORD your God will bless you in the land He is giving you. 9The LORD will establish you as His holy people, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the LORD your God and walk in His ways. 10Then all the peoples of the earth will see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they will stand in awe of you.

11The LORD will make you prosper abundantly—in the fruit of your womb, the offspring of your livestock, and the produce of your land—in the land that the LORD swore to your fathers to give you.

12The LORD will open the heavens, His abundant storehouse, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations, but borrow from none.

13The LORD will make you the head and not the tail; you will only move upward and never downward, if you hear and carefully follow the commandments of the LORD your God, which I am giving you today. 14Do not turn aside to the right or to the left from any of the words I command you today, and do not go after other gods to serve them.

15But it shall come to pass, if you will not listen to Yahweh your God’s voice, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come on you and overtake you.

16You will be cursed in the city, and you will be cursed in the field.

17Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.

18The fruit of your body, the fruit of your ground, the increase of your livestock, and the young of your flock will be cursed.

19You will be cursed when you come in, and you will be cursed when you go out.

20Yahweh will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you put your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the evil of your doings, by which you have forsaken me. 21Yahweh will make the pestilence cling to you, until he has consumed you from off the land where you go in to possess it. 22Yahweh will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with fiery heat, with the sword, with blight, and with mildew. They will pursue you until you perish. 23Your sky that is over your head will be bronze, and the earth that is under you will be iron. 24Yahweh will make the rain of your land powder and dust. It will come down on you from the sky, until you are destroyed.

25Yahweh will cause you to be struck before your enemies. You will go out one way against them, and will flee seven ways before them. You will be tossed back and forth among all the kingdoms of the earth. 26Your dead bodies will be food to all birds of the sky, and to the animals of the earth; and there will be no one to frighten them away.

27Yahweh will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with the tumors, with the scurvy, and with the itch, of which you can not be healed. 28Yahweh will strike you with madness, with blindness, and with astonishment of heart. 29You will grope at noonday, as the blind gropes in darkness, and you shall not prosper in your ways. You will only be oppressed and robbed always, and there will be no one to save you. 30You will betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her. You will build a house, and you won’t dwell in it. You will plant a vineyard, and not use its fruit. 31Your ox will be slain before your eyes, and you will not eat any of it. Your donkey will be violently taken away from before your face, and will not be restored to you. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and you will have no one to save you. 32Your sons and your daughters will be given to another people. Your eyes will look and fail with longing for them all day long. There will be no power in your hand. 33A nation which you don’t know will eat the fruit of your ground and all of your work. You will only be oppressed and crushed always, 34so that the sights that you see with your eyes will drive you mad. 35Yahweh will strike you in the knees and in the legs with a sore boil, of which you cannot be healed, from the sole of your foot to the crown of your head. 36Yahweh will bring you, and your king whom you will set over yourselves, to a nation that you have not known, you nor your fathers. There you will serve other gods of wood and stone. 37You will become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword among all the peoples where Yahweh will lead you away.

38You will carry much seed out into the field, and will gather little in, for the locust will consume it. 39You will plant vineyards and dress them, but you will neither drink of the wine, nor harvest, because worms will eat them. 40You will have olive trees throughout all your borders, but you won’t anoint yourself with the oil, for your olives will drop off. 41You will father sons and daughters, but they will not be yours, for they will go into captivity. 42Locusts will consume all of your trees and the fruit of your ground. 43The foreigner who is among you will mount up above you higher and higher, and you will come down lower and lower. 44He will lend to you, and you won’t lend to him. He will be the head, and you will be the tail.

45All these curses will come on you, and will pursue you and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you didn’t listen to Yahweh your God’s voice, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded you. 46They will be for a sign and for a wonder to you and to your offspring forever.

47Because you didn’t serve Yahweh your God with joyfulness and with gladness of heart, by reason of the abundance of all things; 48therefore you will serve your enemies whom Yahweh sends against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in lack of all things. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.

Proverbs 13:
1A wise son listens to his father’s instruction, but a scoffer doesn’t listen to rebuke.

2By the fruit of his lips, a man enjoys good things, but the unfaithful crave violence.

3He who guards his mouth guards his soul. One who opens wide his lips comes to ruin.

14The unfaithful will be repaid for his own ways; likewise a good man will be rewarded for his ways.

15A simple man believes everything, but the prudent man carefully considers his ways.

16A wise man fears and shuns evil, but the fool is hot headed and reckless.

17He who is quick to become angry will commit folly, and a crafty man is hated.

Prov. 16:
1The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from Yahweh.

2All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes, but Yahweh weighs the motives.

3Commit your deeds to Yahweh, and your plans shall succeed.

4Yahweh has made everything for its own end— yes, even the wicked for the day of evil.

5Everyone who is proud in heart is an abomination to Yahweh; they shall certainly not be unpunished.

Journey_man said:

Have you ever wondered why perfectly sane people choose to spend eternity the worst place of all.

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They do it because they haven’t been gifted saving faith. They simply don’t, nor can’t, believe, unless God Himself does a work in them.

There is literally no other explanation.

Journey_man said:

I've never accused you of anything, are you sure you've got the right guy?

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I definately got the right guy. Proud, Unwilling to admit when he makes a mistake. and thinks he knows it all..

Journey_man said:

Your "middle ground truth", puts you squarely in the Arminian camp.

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False accuser of the bretheryn

PennEd said:

They do it because they haven’t been gifted saving faith. They simply don’t, nor can’t, believe, unless God Himself does a work in them.

There is literally no other explanation.

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if this is true.

we serve a God that is not a God of love. But a God who created peoplke just to send them to hell.. I guess he got his kicks out of that?

Journey_man said:

Most professing Christians accept that salvation is by grace through faith. But they believe that faith is something humans cultivate on their own.

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No.. Only Calvinists think this. No one else thinks this.. not has it even crossed their mind

Journey_man said:

They don't believe that saving faith is a gift that God only gives to His elect. Even after we point out; Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

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For by grace we have been saved through faith

No faith no salvation. period.

He who believes is not condemned, he who does not beloieve is condemned already, why? Because God did not give them the ability to believe? No

because they knew God. but did not gloriphy God but hid the truth of hism in their hearts and created their own God. who will do what they want.

Journey_man said:

I believe the greatest stumbling block in receiving the true gospel message, is due to pride. Most want something to boast about, and they can't have it if they give all the glory of salvation to God. The idea that we have no say in whom God choses to save and whom He leaves in their sin, is unacceptable to most.

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Oh yes. pride.

Not because did nto allow you to see. But because in pride, you refuse to see

TMS said:

People use their free will to respond to and cooperate with God's grace.

God does not force Himself on us. He knocks at the door.

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People use their freed will to respond. The natural man is opposed to the Spiritual things of God. Scripture says so.


The free will camp assumes, with no supporting text and contrary to many verses that evidence the opposite, that the man of flesh is free to choose, and will believe, that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, and to which he is inherently opposed with his uncircumcised heart of stone. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches about the natural man who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, blinded to truth and under the power and influence of Satan: he serves the law of sin which brings forth fruit unto death, not life. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, his incurably wicked heart cannot be changed. He hates God, rejects the light, and hears the gospel message as foolishness. Praise the Lord if He has set you free!

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians ch 2 v 14