Are you a monergist or a synergist?

[TheLordIsMyRedeemer]

Scripture teaches the monergistic order:
Regeneration → Faith → Salvation (John 1:13; John 3:8; Eph. 2:5; 1 John 5:1)
Synergism teaches:
Faith → Regeneration → Salvation
That is theologically impossible, because:
dead men cannot believe (Eph. 2:1)
the natural man cannot receive spiritual truth (1 Cor. 2:14)
no one seeks God (Rom. 3:11)
the flesh profits nothing (John 6:63)

I believe Scripture teaches that faith precedes regeneration. (John 3:15-16; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:35; John 6:47; John 12:36; Ephesians 1:13)

(KJV Ephesians 1:13) "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

 

[OMC]

I believe Scripture teaches that faith precedes regeneration. (John 3:15-16; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:35; John 6:47; John 12:36; Ephesians 1:13)

(KJV Ephesians 1:13) "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

The biblical tension is real: Scripture repeatedly presents faith as the human response God commands, and at the same time presents regeneration as the divine work that enables that response. When you cite passages like John 3:15–16; 3:36; 5:24; 6:35; 6:47; 12:36; and Ephesians 1:13, you’re pointing to texts that clearly place believing as the condition for receiving life, salvation, and sealing. Those verses absolutely teach that God saves those who believe, and that hearing the gospel precedes believing, and that believing precedes sealing. Scripture never denies that order. But Scripture also teaches that the ability to believe is itself the result of God’s prior work in the heart (John 6:44; 6:65; Acts 16:14; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:8–9). So the biblical picture is not “faith instead of regeneration,” nor “regeneration instead of faith,” but that faith is genuinely first in the human experience, while regeneration is first in the divine cause. Ephesians 1:13 fits this perfectly: you heard, you believed, you were sealed. That is the experiential order. Yet Paul also says the Spirit is the One who opens the heart to hear and believe in the first place. Scripture holds both truths together without contradiction: faith precedes sealing, but God’s regenerating work precedes faith.

 

[Ceph]

Another thread made to apply worldly wisdom to God's Word...
Useless pig's meat.

 

[OMC]

Another thread made to apply worldly wisdom to God's Word...
Useless pig's meat.

Scripture is clear that the way we speak is part of our obedience to Christ. Calling someone’s discussion “useless pig’s meat” is not simply harsh — it directly contradicts the Lord’s commands about how believers are to treat one another. Paul says, “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying” (Ephesians 4:29). James warns that the tongue can “bless God and curse men,” and that this ought not so to be (James 3:9–10). Even when we believe a brother is mistaken, Scripture requires correction to be done “in meekness” (2 Timothy 2:25), not contempt. And dismissing someone’s attempt to understand Scripture as “worldly wisdom” without engaging their reasoning violates Christ’s command to judge “righteous judgment” (John 7:24). So the behavior must be corrected: believers are called to defend truth, but never with insults, contempt, or demeaning speech. The goal is always to build up, never to tear down.

 

[Ceph]

Scripture is clear that the way we speak is part of our obedience to Christ. Calling someone’s discussion “useless pig’s meat” is not simply harsh — it directly contradicts the Lord’s commands about how believers are to treat one another. Paul says, “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying” (Ephesians 4:29). James warns that the tongue can “bless God and curse men,” and that this ought not so to be (James 3:9–10). Even when we believe a brother is mistaken, Scripture requires correction to be done “in meekness” (2 Timothy 2:25), not contempt. And dismissing someone’s attempt to understand Scripture as “worldly wisdom” without engaging their reasoning violates Christ’s command to judge “righteous judgment” (John 7:24). So the behavior must be corrected: believers are called to defend truth, but never with insults, contempt, or demeaning speech. The goal is always to build up, never to tear down.

It's not insulting. This thread asks a question that can't be answered, and the questions are wrong. The people who 'discuss' them never come to a productive conclusion. These are millenia-old gangrene infested sores which are never closed, and you will not be able to find a simple way to refute that, besides upholing an open door to continue a useless and endles argument. These controversies don't edify anybody, they make them stumble into holes they only fall down. The only anyone climbs out is when they finally walk away.

Engage what reasonong? Answer the qestion yourself.

 

[Ceph]

"monergist or a synergist?"
Christ never said these words, and apparenly people had it all figured out before these terms came to existence.
But the question is direct and only has two options. Anyone invested in it should just answer.

 

[OMC]

It's not insulting. This thread asks a question that can't be answered, and the questions are wrong. The people who 'discuss' them never come to a productive conclusion. These are millenia-old gangrene infested sores which are never closed, and you will not be able to find a simple way to refute that, besides upholing an open door to continue a useless and endles argument. These controversies don't edify anybody, they make them stumble into holes they only fall down. The only anyone climbs out is when they finally walk away

Brother, even if the controversies feel endless or unproductive, Scripture still forbids the kind of language you’re using here. Calling a discussion “gangrene‑infested sores” or “useless pig’s meat” is not how Christ teaches His people to speak. Paul commands, “Let your speech be always with grace” (Colossians 4:6), and “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth” (Ephesians 4:29). James says plainly that cursing people made in God’s image is incompatible with the tongue that blesses God (James 3:9–10). Even when a debate seems fruitless, the Lord requires us to correct gently: “The servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men… instructing those that oppose themselves” (2 Timothy 2:24–25). You’re right that some arguments go nowhere, and Scripture warns us to avoid “foolish and unlearned questions” that only produce strife (2 Timothy 2:23). But avoiding unprofitable debates does not give us permission to speak harshly or contemptuously toward brothers. The correction here is simple: step away from the argument if it is unedifying, but do so with the humility and gentleness Christ commands, not with contemptuous speech.

 

[Ceph]

Brother, even if the controversies feel endless or unproductive, Scripture still forbids the kind of language you’re using here. Calling a discussion “gangrene‑infested sores” or “useless pig’s meat” is not how Christ teaches His people to speak. Paul commands, “Let your speech be always with grace” (Colossians 4:6), and “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth” (Ephesians 4:29). James says plainly that cursing people made in God’s image is incompatible with the tongue that blesses God (James 3:9–10). Even when a debate seems fruitless, the Lord requires us to correct gently: “The servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men… instructing those that oppose themselves” (2 Timothy 2:24–25). You’re right that some arguments go nowhere, and Scripture warns us to avoid “foolish and unlearned questions” that only produce strife (2 Timothy 2:23). But avoiding unprofitable debates does not give us permission to speak harshly or contemptuously toward brothers. The correction here is simple: step away from the argument if it is unedifying, but do so with the humility and gentleness Christ commands, not with contemptuous speech.

I'm not speaking harshly toward any brother, I'm speaking against the principality. Foolish and unlearned questions don't just need to be avoided, they need to be ceased.
In the end, you'll see I had no idea about what to expect from anybody who read my posts. I just wrote what I wrote because I loved God. I don't know if anyone is offended by what I say. All I know is that it's against the law to eat pigs meat (pigs store fecal matter in their meat), and in the books of the Prophets God dispises this error with awesome words. These arguments are 'meat' that are full of fecal matter; ideas proposed as meals that aren't with the Word of God, and only stifle learning it.

No brother should be held in contempt, but that which broters sin by is most contemptable. Especially if it's mutually consented to in a whole asembly. We are told to rebuke, exhort, and chasten, as much as not judge. If these ideas aren't rebuked, what good do you see them making of anybody? Let the fallen councils fall, let people live. Let them not have errors which invite beatings from the Lord. Would Christ not have a word or two to say about people who've chewed each other up over such wicked foolishnesness on the day of judgment? The unrighteous discourse should be shamed and abhorred now, so that it's not shamed and abhorred by God when it Matters Most.

 

[OMC]

I'm not speaking harshly toward any brother, I'm speaking against the principality. Foolish and unlearned questions don't just need to be avoided, they need to be ceased.
In the end, you'll see I had no idea about what to expect from anybody who read my posts. I just wrote what I wrote because I loved God. I don't know if anyone is offended by what I say. All I know is that it's against the law to eat pigs meat (pigs store fecal matter in their meat), and in the books of the Prophets God dispises this error with awesome words. These arguments are 'meat' that are full of fecal matter; ideas proposed as meals that aren't with the Word of God, and only stifle learning it.

No brother should be held in contempt, but that which broters sin by is most contemptable. Especially if it's mutually consented to in a whole asembly. We are told to rebuke, exhort, and chasten, as much as not judge. If these ideas aren't rebuked, what good do you see them making of anybody? Let the fallen councils fall, let people live. Let them not have errors which invite beatings from the Lord. Would Christ not have a word or two to say about people who've chewed each other up over such wicked foolishnesness on the day of judgment? The unrighteous discourse should be shamed and abhorred now, so that it's not shamed and abhorred by God when it Matters Most.

I hear your zeal for holiness, and Scripture affirms that zeal — but it also corrects the way we express it. You are right that believers must reject foolish controversies (2 Timothy 2:23), rebuke error (Titus 1:13), and expose works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11). You are also right that sin itself is contemptible. But Scripture draws a sharp line between condemning sin and speaking contemptuously toward people, even when we believe we are addressing a “principality.” When your words call discussions “gangrene‑infested sores,” “fecal meat,” or “pig’s meat,” the problem is not your hatred of error — it is that your language still lands on people, not demons. The apostles never spoke that way to brothers, even when confronting dangerous teachings. Paul told Timothy to avoid foolish questions, yes — but also to correct “with meekness” (2 Timothy 2:25). Jude tells us to contend earnestly for the faith — but also to make distinctions, “saving with fear,” not scorning (Jude 22–23). And James warns that “the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God” (James 1:20).

Your desire to protect the church is good. Your desire to stop unprofitable debates is good. Your desire to rebuke error is good. But Scripture commands that all of this be done with speech that is “seasoned with grace” (Colossians 4:6), not imagery that demeans or shames the brethren. You are not wrong to want error rebuked — but you must rebuke it in the way Christ commands, not in the way anger urges. The Lord Himself is gentle with His own, even when they are deeply mistaken (Matthew 12:20). If you want to fight principalities, fight them with truth, clarity, and holiness — not with contemptuous metaphors that wound the very people you want to protect. I remind you of this in all humbleness and love my friend.

 

[DavidLamb]

"monergist or a synergist?"
Christ never said these words, and apparenly people had it all figured out before these terms came to existence.
But the question is direct and only has two options. Anyone invested in it should just answer.

Obviously Christ never said those words. English as a language was not even in existence when He was on the earth. If we had to restrict our discussions to using only words which Jesus used, our posts would have to be in Aramaic or Hebrew.

 

[Ceph]

Obviously Christ never said those words. English as a language was not even in existence when He was on the earth. If we had to restrict our discussions to using only words which Jesus used, our posts would have to be in Aramaic or Hebrew.

No, we are told both how to behave and that we are assured salvation by Believing those words. This is a defunct discussion from the get-go. You can all beleive I have something against the people, but I know these people would be better off if they didn't eat this pigs meat.

 

[Ceph]

You have heard "love the sinner, hate the sin." Well today, we will hate the sin.
How will you fluff up this worthless thing you people trife about? There's no godliness in it, yet you guage each other in Christ over it. Will you talk down an attempt to incorperate witchraft into christianity with light and sugar-coated words?
Such conversations as these are a tunnel into darkness that has no light at the end of it; and the people inside hate each other with the power of the darknes, so it might as well be withcraft. This is the appropriate way to talk about strife such as this.

"Save me, save me from having to feel guilty about swinging my fists at other people over ideas I made up!"
"Stop calling our discourse such a fecal-filled nowhere road! I'm such a monergist or synergist and I have to be against the 'other' side!"
"We've been unable to prove either 'side' for over a thousand years and every single argument always becomes the same exact twisted pretzel! Yet there has to be contention over it! Who is this man who's going to bring it all to nothing?! SAVE UUSS! SAVE US, SO WE CAN KEEP FIGHTING FOREVER!"
"Stop, don't tell us this is incompatible with God! I WILL continue to throw a temper tantrum over sonething I shouldn't even be doing in the first place! I HAVE to do this, and anyone who says otherwise is wrong, PLEASE SAVE ME!"

Really? Until this post receives a reply exactly rebuking me for how this conversation is instead actually Christlike, you have no excuse. Am I hating brothers? Please, save yourselves.

There is one source for all Godliness, and one answer to God's mysteries. Whoever is Godly, let him answer them, and let those who are Godly with him accept it.

 

[Ceph]

one answer to God's mysteries.

To each and every one of. The cross is for salvation, but the greater mysteries are still with God. They are spiritual, and not a matter of debate. No man may get the glory in any one of them.

 

[Ceph]

If men consulted with the Lord, there wouldn't be an argument between two people at all. What makes you read a book about Love, Grace, and Common Sense; Beleiving that there is your Creator beside you and readt to guide you in every place, then go and lose yourself spending what you have making a shame out of the expectation of those words?
And then insist that your corrupt fruits are the Good wages of God?

 

[Ceph]

Whoever wants to take it up with me should take it up with God.

Isaiah 1:10
Hear Yahweh’s word, you rulers of Sodom!
Listen to the law of our God, you people of Gomorrah!
11 “What are the multitude of your sacrifices to me?”, says Yahweh.
“I have had enough of the burnt offerings of rams
and the fat of fed animals.
I don’t delight in the blood of bulls,
or of lambs,
or of male goats.
12 When you come to appear before me,
who has required this at your hand, to trample my courts?
13 Bring no more vain offerings.
Incense is an abomination to me.
New moons, Sabbaths, and convocations—
I can’t stand evil assemblies.
14 My soul hates your New Moons and your appointed feasts.
They are a burden to me.
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you.
Yes, when you make many prayers, I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood.
16 Wash yourselves. Make yourself clean.
Put away the evil of your doings from before my eyes.
Cease to do evil.
17 Learn to do well.
Seek justice.
Relieve the oppressed.
Defend the fatherless.
Plead for the widow.”

18 “Come now, and let’s reason together,” says Yahweh:
“Though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.
Though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient,
you will eat the good of the land;
20 but if you refuse and rebel, you will be devoured with the sword;
for Yahweh’s mouth has spoken it.”

 

[Ceph]

Zephaniah 1:2
“I will utterly sweep away everything from the surface of the earth,” says Yahweh.

3“I will sweep away man and animal. I will sweep away the birds of the sky, the fish of the sea, and the heaps of rubble with the wicked. I will cut off man from the surface of the earth,” says Yahweh.

4“I will stretch out my hand against Judah and against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place—the name of the idolatrous and pagan priests,

5those who worship the army of the sky on the housetops, those who worship and swear by Yahweh and also swear by Malcam,

6those who have turned back from following Yahweh, and those who haven’t sought Yahweh nor inquired after him.

7Be silent at the presence of the Lord Yahweh, for the day of Yahweh is at hand. For Yahweh has prepared a sacrifice. He has consecrated his guests.

8It will happen in the day of Yahweh’s sacrifice that I will punish the princes, the king’s sons, and all those who are clothed with foreign clothing.

9In that day, I will punish all those who leap over the threshold, who fill their master’s house with violence and deceit.

10In that day, says Yahweh, there will be the noise of a cry from the fish gate, a wailing from the second quarter, and a great crashing from the hills.

11Wail, you inhabitants of Maktesh, for all the people of Canaan are undone! All those who were loaded with silver are cut off.

12It will happen at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with lamps, and I will punish the men who are settled on their dregs, who say in their heart, “Yahweh will not do good, neither will he do evil.”

13Their wealth will become a plunder, and their houses a desolation. Yes, they will build houses, but won’t inhabit them. They will plant vineyards, but won’t drink their wine.”

14The great day of Yahweh is near. It is near and hurries greatly, the voice of the day of Yahweh. The mighty man cries there bitterly.

Isaiah 65:12
I will destine you for the sword, and you will all kneel down to be slaughtered, because I called and you did not answer, I spoke and you did not listen; you did evil in My sight and chose that in which I did not delight.”

 

[Ceph]

Ezekiel 18:
2“What do you mean, that you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

3“As I live,” says the Lord Yahweh, “you shall not use this proverb any more in Israel. 4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine. The soul who sins, he shall die.

5“But if a man is just, and does that which is lawful and right, 6and has not eaten on the mountains, hasn’t lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hasn’t defiled his neighbor’s wife, hasn’t come near a woman in her impurity, 7and has not wronged any, but has restored to the debtor his pledge, has taken nothing by robbery, has given his bread to the hungry, and has covered the naked with a garment; 8he who hasn’t lent to them with interest, hasn’t taken any increase from them, who has withdrawn his hand from iniquity, has executed true justice between man and man, 9has walked in my statutes, and has kept my ordinances, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live,” says the Lord Yahweh.

10“If he fathers a son who is a robber who sheds blood, and who does any one of these things, 11or who does not do any of those things but has eaten at the mountain shrines and defiled his neighbor’s wife, 12has wronged the poor and needy, has taken by robbery, has not restored the pledge, and has lifted up his eyes to the idols, has committed abomination, 13has lent with interest, and has taken increase from the poor, shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations. He shall surely die. His blood will be on him.



20The soul who sins, he shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.

21“But if the wicked turns from all his sins that he has committed, and keeps all my statutes, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live. He shall not die. 22None of his transgressions that he has committed will be remembered against him. In his righteousness that he has done, he shall live. 23Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?” says the Lord Yahweh, “and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?

24“But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, should he live? None of his righteous deeds that he has done will be remembered. In his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them he shall die. 25“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not equal.’ Hear now, house of Israel: Is my way not equal? Aren’t your ways unequal? 26When the righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and dies in it, then he dies in his iniquity that he has done. 27Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed, and does that which is lawful and right, he will save his soul alive. 28Because he considers, and turns away from all his transgressions that he has committed, he shall surely live. He shall not die. 29Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ House of Israel, aren’t my ways fair? Aren’t your ways unfair?

30“Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, everyone according to his ways,” says the Lord Yahweh. “Return, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions, so iniquity will not be your ruin. 31Cast away from you all your transgressions in which you have transgressed; and make yourself a new heart and a new spirit. For why will you die, house of Israel? 32For I have no pleasure in the death of him who dies,” says the Lord Yahweh. “Therefore turn yourselves, and live!

 

[Ceph]

Ezekiel 34:16
I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice.

Ezekiel 34:1
1Yahweh’s word came to me, saying, 2“Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy, and tell them, even the shepherds, ‘The Lord Yahweh says: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Shouldn’t the shepherds feed the sheep? 3You eat the fat. You clothe yourself with the wool. You kill the fatlings, but you don’t feed the sheep. 4You haven’t strengthened the diseased. You haven’t healed that which was sick. You haven’t bound up that which was broken. You haven’t brought back that which was driven away. You haven’t sought that which was lost, but you have ruled over them with force and with rigor. 5They were scattered, because there was no shepherd.

 

[Ceph]

That is the Creed of walking with Christ. That is the answer to what determines salvation or condemnation.
Those are the rules to live by to obtain life. This cannot be added to or taken away from, so why do you insist on staying here?

 

[Aaron56]

That's not true, nobody's sins were paid for until the cross. Believers from every age had the promise of redemption but it wasn't consummated until He finished His work on the cross.

When He told people, "your sins are forgiven". It was as good as done because the cross was 100% guaranteed to take place, from eternity past. God planned to sacrafice His Son to save His elect.

You are allowed to remain in your Sunday School level of understanding.