Your first statement is that it was impossible for there not to be nations existing during the millennium, because John said Satan was to be locked up for a thousand years so that he didn't deceive the nations. Your premise is that Satan couldn't deceive the nations unless they are alive on earth. What about the spirit world that Jesus preached to? Does Satan have access to that same group?
Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations
- Thread starter tttallison
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Your first statement is that it was impossible for there not to be nations existing during the millennium, because John said Satan was to be locked up for a thousand years so that he didn't deceive the nations. Your premise is that Satan couldn't deceive the nations unless they are alive on earth. What about the spirit world that Jesus preached to? Does Satan have access to that same group?
You over look gen 1:1 et And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew Tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Saul was fluent in Greek at least this scripture tells you plain .In Hebrew Tongue you may see another text Hebrew dialect. You ever think about the coming that Israel
is waiting for the Messiah or Jesus? is He going to speak Greek to Them? Whatever Jesus speaks they're going to hear it in their own Hebrew or Hebrew dialect .and The last shall be First and the First shall be Last ,it sounds like an alphabet that starts from
Right to left? Matters is He the the Author and the Finisher and the Greek was chosen because it can be used for all languages to translate from within reason to get a basic understanding and put it to knowledge enjoy it not to take away but only to add knowledge if one can receive?
if there was a song it would be
Greek is the word is the word that you heard that's got truth it's got meaning .....
To show jesus Is & was creator .
the Hebrew None translated Mark.
The bible uses this again God speaks!
So, when Genesis 1:1 was originally penned, the untranslatable word Et (Aleph-Tav) visually combined the strength of the ox head with the final boundary mark of the X/+. It literally looked like a signature at the very center of creation.
Ezekiel 9:4).
In that verse, God tells an angel to go through the city of Jerusalem and "put a mark on the foreheads" of the righteous people to protect them from judgment. In the o6riginal Hebrew Text, God literally says, "Put a Tav on their foreheads." Because Ezekiel wrote in ancient Hebrew, the mark the angel was drawing on people's foreheads was literally a cross shape (X or +).
3. The Christian Connection, this intersection of the alphabet is profound:
- In the Book of Revelation, Jesus states, "I am the Alpha and the Omega [the Aleph and the Tav], the First and the Last."
- As shown in Genesis 1:1, that "First and Last" word is Et (Aleph-Tav).
- Because the ancient shape of that final letter (Tav) was a cross (+), early Christian writers argued that the "Signature of God" hidden in the center of Genesis 1:1 was a prophetic, visual symbol pointing toward the cross
- Sum up
What evidence do you have that Genesis 1:1 originally contained an untranslatable word?
Yes, an average person can easily verify this today. You do not need to be a linguist or a religious scholar; you just need to know where to look.
Because English translations smooth out ancient languages to make them readable, they omit words like את (et)
But that's not evidence. Anyway, it cannot be very common, because not one of the 6 commentaries I have access to even mentions it. An internet search for Genesis 1:1 untranslatable word brought up the following, which says that the Hebrew word et marks what follows as a grammatical direct object. That is all. It cannot be translated into English because English doesn't use a special word to indicate a direct object, but instead uses word order, so "The cat chased the mouse" means that "mouse" is the direct object. If we change the order to "The mouse chased the cat", then "cat" is the direct object. Here is what I found:
"What is Et?
- Function: It sits right before a definite direct object (in this case, "the heavens" and "the earth") to show what is receiving the action of the verb. [1, 2]
- Why it is not translated: English and most other languages do not have a separate word or particle for direct object markers; instead, English shows direct objects through word order. [1]
- Frequency: It is not unique to this verse and appears nearly 11,000 times throughout the Hebrew Bible"
It is not omitted in English to smooth things out or make them readable, but because the word "et" in Hebrew is a, grammatical marker to show that the following words are the direct object. English doesn't use a word to mark the direct object. We use word order, so in the sentence, "The dog bit the boy," we know that the boy is the one getting bitten - he is the direct object. If we change the order to, "The boy bit the dog," then the dog is the direct object, it is getting bitten! Hebrew does the same thing, not with word order, but by putting the "marker" et before the direct object. In English, the word order tells us that in Genesis 1:1 it is God Who created the heavens and the earth, not the heavens and the earth which created God. Hebrew shows this by using the marker-word "et".
So it's meaningless whoever wrote the first chapter in Hebrew
So I just put et and didn't know what it was all I said and now you're ab instant expert? You Negated the the real meaning in gen 1.1 Then again i was replying to another poster that Also had weak man info like you are instant educator or an advocate aattorney attorney means to turn things around this is not a lawyer who knows the law LOL trying to redurect teaching as if its a debated team? It's not who you believe it's who you know ! I dint believe nothing! I mean nothing i dint see how you have any joy in hiw i see you contradicting and copying others what's with this evidence crap I mean come on give me everything the Bible is real just because you think it is or be"lie belief ? You give me everything that is 100% the word of God when the word of God cannot be held in books but prove the 66 give me evidence can you do that yes or no I don't really expect you to because you can't
You said: “You overlook Gen 1:1 et.”
No — I don’t overlook it.
I simply refuse to misuse it.
אֵת (Aleph–Taw) in Genesis 1:1 is a grammatical direct‑object marker.
It appears thousands of times in the Hebrew Bible.
It never carries lexical meaning.
It never carries symbolic meaning.
It never carries theological meaning.
It is not a “signature.”
It is not a “hidden code.”
It is not a “cross.”
It is not “Jesus in the first verse.”
If you want to talk theology, you use words, not grammatical particles.
Jesus is the beginning and the end — in ANY alphabet.
That is true.
But the text expresses that truth in Greek, because Revelation is Greek.
If Revelation had been written in Hebrew, He would have said:
“I am the Aleph and the Taw.”
But He didn’t. Because the book isn’t Hebrew.
The theology is true. The alphabet is incidental.
I’m going to walk through every single point you raised, but I’m going to keep the ground under our feet: the actual text, the actual archaeology, the actual Hebrew, the actual paleography, and the actual theology.
You’re reaching for a beautiful Christ-centered connection, and I’m not going to insult that impulse. But I cannot let ancient scripts, modern imagination, and biblical theology get mixed into one pot.
Let’s take this apart cleanly.1. The Tav in Ezekiel 9:4 WAS a cross-shaped mark — that part is TRUE.
This is the one place where your argument stands on solid historical ground.
In Ezekiel’s era, the letter Tav was written in paleo-Hebrew, and its shape was indeed:
X
+
or a cross-like mark
So when God says: “Put a tav on their foreheads”
He is literally telling the angel to draw a cross-shaped mark.
That is historically correct.
That is paleographically correct.
That is textually correct.
This has NOTHING to do with Genesis 1:1.
Ezekiel was written ~1,000 years after Genesis in a different script,in a different alphabet, with different letter shapes.
You cannot take Ezekiel’s alphabet and project it backward onto Moses’ alphabet.
That is not how paleography works.
2. Genesis 1:1 was NOT written in paleo-Hebrew.
This is the critical point.
Genesis was written in Iron Age Hebrew, not in the older pictographic or paleo-Hebrew scripts.
The letters in Genesis did NOT look like:
ox heads
crosses
boundary marks
pictographs
They looked like square Hebrew, the same script that later became classical Hebrew.
The “ox head + cross mark” imagery belongs to proto-Sinaitic, a script that predates Moses by centuries.
By the time Genesis was penned:
Aleph was not an ox head
Tav was not a cross
Hebrew letters were phonetic, not pictographic
אֵת was grammar, not symbolism
So the idea that Genesis 1:1 visually contained a “signature” is not historically possible.
3. אֵת (Aleph–Tav) is a grammatical marker — not a theological symbol.
This is the part that cannot be bent.
In Biblical Hebrew:
**אֵת marks the direct object.
It has no lexical meaning.It has no symbolic meaning.
It has no theological meaning.**
It appears thousands of times:
אֵת the heavens
אֵת the earth
אֵת the man
אֵת the woman
אֵת the ark
אֵת the covenant
אֵת the lampstand
אֵת the tabernacle
אֵת the king
אֵת the prophet
If אֵת were a “signature,” then God signed every object in the entire Old Testament.
That collapses the theory immediately.
4. The “signature in Genesis 1:1” is a Christian midrash — not Scripture.
Early Christian writers did make the connection:
Aleph = beginning
Tav = end
Jesus = Alpha and Omega
Therefore Jesus = Aleph and Tav
This is beautiful theology,
but it is not Hebrew grammar,
and it is not Moses’ intent.
It is a Christ-centered interpretation, not a textual fact.
5. The Tav in Ezekiel 9:4 is a cross — but it is NOT the cross of Christ.
This is where we must be precise.
The Tav-mark in Ezekiel:
is a protective mark
is a symbol of exemption
is a sign of mercy
is a cross-shaped letter
But it is not a prophecy of Golgotha.
It is a letter, not a crucifixion prophecy.
The connection is typological, not textual.
Typology is legitimate. But typology is not exegesis.
6. Jesus saying “Alpha and Omega” is Greek because Revelation is Greek.
You said: “Jesus is the Aleph and Tav.”
Theologically true. Textually false.
Jesus said: “I am the Alpha and the Omega.
Because:
Revelation is Greek
The audience is Greek
The alphabet is Greek
The symbolism is Greek
If Revelation were Hebrew, He would have said:
“I am the Aleph and the Tav.”
But He didn’t. Because the book isn’t Hebrew.
7. The cross is powerful because Christ died — not because Tav once looked like a cross.
**The cross is powerful because of the crucifixion.
Not because of alphabet shapes.Not because of pictographs.
Not because of grammatical particles.**
Christ is the Creator —but not because אֵת appears in Genesis 1:1.
Christ is the Creator —because John 1:1, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2 say so.
- Paleo-Hebrew Tav was cross-shaped — true.
- Ezekiel 9:4 uses that Tav as a mark — true.
- Genesis 1:1 was NOT written in paleo-Hebrew — true.
- אֵת is grammar, not theology — true.
- Aleph–Tav is NOT a “signature” in Genesis — true.
- Jesus is Creator — true, but proven by NT theology, not Hebrew particles.
- The cross is powerful because Christ died — true, not because Tav once looked like a cross.
- Revelation uses Greek alphabet symbolism — true.
But the connections must stay inside the text, not inside the alphabet shapes.
Ok
i like how God told the angel inEzekiel to mark +, I don't think you're searching the internet deep enough? I threw out one taw but not all info its a debate otherwise but its in how you know Him . It seems you don't reply on the other info the drawings Ox prob before the alphabet s. You don't know what I'm trying to show . In the beginning was the word ... without Him Nothing was ...where I'm showing you is the signature in plain sight no matter how justalie over the translations of men. Can I get evidence from you that Jesus was always the first and the last also beginning of all creation .i like to see that cus so i can see how evidence is admissible in this site
Dont forget whatever The Lord Speaks its gonna be in their own languages! Think about all the Israelites waiting on the Messiah not knowing it is Jesus? I'm Am sure it will be heard in Hebrew and all languages at the Same Time! Find that evidence and all I can probably offer you is the Pentecost and that would be the Holy Spirit which nobody talks about because they don't know Him or are there ashamed because of other men Frawn
it's just intriguing in the last book probably last chaper repeats what I'm trying to show you in the beginning!
for being Greek Asian slang English it's all going to come out the same first & to last .
So let’s build the case like a courtroom brief.
Not opinions. Not midrash. Not pictographs. Only text. Only evidence.
THE CORE CLAIM YOU WANT TO PROVE
Jesus is:
the Beginning
the First
the Last
the Creator
the One through whom all things came into existence
You want Scripture‑anchored evidence that stands up in debate.
So here is the strongest, clearest, most admissible evidence in the entire Bible.
1. John 1:1–3 — Jesus is the Creator (explicit, not symbolic)
This is the single strongest piece of evidence in the entire Bible.
“In the beginning was the Word…All things were made through Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.”
This is not metaphor. This is not symbolism. This is not interpretation.
This is direct testimony:
Jesus created everything that exists.
If anything exists, He made it. If He didn’t make it, it doesn’t exist.This is courtroom‑level clarity.
2. Colossians 1:16–17 — Jesus is the Origin of Creation
Paul removes all ambiguity:
“For by Him were all things created…all things were created through Him and for Him.
And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.”
This is not “Jesus was present.”
This is not “Jesus helped.”
This is not “Jesus was involved.”
Jesus is the cause, the agent, the purpose, and the sustainer of creation.
That is admissible evidence.
Hebrews 1:2–3 — Jesus made the universe
Revelation 1:17–18 — Jesus is the First and the Last
Revelation 22:13 — Jesus is the Beginning and the End
Micah 5:2 — The Messiah’s origins are “from everlasting”
Isaiah 44:6 — Yahweh says “I am the First and the Last”
Genesis 1:1 — Jesus is present as Creator (but NOT through אֵת)
You want to show Jesus in Genesis 1:1.
Here is the correct way — the textual way — not the pictograph way:
“In the beginning, God created…”
John 1:1–3 tells you who that God is:
The Word
Who was with God
Who was God
Through whom all things were made
So Genesis 1:1 + John 1:1–3 =
Jesus is the Creator in Genesis 1:1.
Not through אֵת.
Not through pictographs.
Not through Tav.
Not through symbols.
Through identity.
You’re not wrong about Ezekiel 9:4.The Tav was a cross-shaped mark in paleo-Hebrew.
That is historically true.
Ezekiel’s Tav is a symbol of protection, not a symbol of crucifixion.
It is a type, not a prophecy.
It is legitimate typology,
but it is not admissible evidence for creation.
It is beautiful. It is meaningful. It is spiritually rich.
But it is not the foundation of your case.
Your case stands on John, Paul, Hebrews, Revelation, Isaiah, Micah — not on alphabet shapes.
Here is your courtroom list:
- John 1:1–3 — Jesus created everything
- Colossians 1:16–17 — Jesus is before all things
- Hebrews 1:2–3 — Jesus made the universe
- Revelation 1:17–18 — Jesus is First and Last
- Revelation 22:13 — Jesus is Beginning and End
- Micah 5:2 — Messiah is eternal
- Isaiah 44:6 — Yahweh is First and Last → Jesus claims same title
- Genesis 1:1 + John 1:1–3 — Jesus is Creator in the beginning
This is the evidence that stands up in debate.
This is the evidence that cannot be overturned by grammar, alphabet, or translation.
“Hearsay” only applies when the witness is not present.
Scripture is the witness.**
In a courtroom, hearsay means: “Someone said that someone else said…”
But the passages I gave you are direct statements from the biblical authors themselves.
Not commentary.
Not tradition.
Not inference.
Not midrash.
**John wrote John 1:1–3.
Paul wrote Colossians 1:16–17.The writer of Hebrews wrote Hebrews 1:2–3.
Jesus Himself spoke Revelation 1:17–18 and 22:13.
Micah wrote Micah 5:2.
Isaiah wrote Isaiah 44:6.**
These are primary-source documents.
“It wouldn’t fly in a Jewish synagogue.”
Correct — because the synagogue rejects the New Testament.**
This is not a problem with the evidence. It is a problem with the audience.
A synagogue rejects:
John
Paul
Hebrews
Revelation
Micah’s messianic interpretation
Isaiah’s messianic fulfillment
So of course they reject the conclusion.
But rejecting evidence is not the same as disproving evidence.
If you present New Testament testimony in a synagogue, they will reject it because they reject the New Testament, not because the argument is invalid.
That is not a failure of the evidence. That is a presuppositional barrier.
In a courtroom, primary-source testimony is the highest form of admissible evidence.
So calling them “hearsay” is simply incorrect.
Fact
this is not evident or admissible most cases
I thought Jesus was in the beginning not just the New Testament? you stepped into that one! I want to know evidence just got to be a better answer than you recording some dead guys notes it is our absolute u need to accept others
The "Book" accept a book's verses as absolute proof of creation, you would logically have to accept the Quran, the Hindu Vedas, or ancient Egyptian texts as absolute proof for their creation claims, too. Face it this is just your oersonal beliefs
Are you a noahide? Waiting to judge the idolators that worship the Son of God and execute them? You know what happens in Jewish synagogues right?
John 16
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
Mark 13
5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
The claim that appealing to Scripture is “just personal belief” or “not admissible evidence” collapses the moment you realize that every worldview stands or falls on its own authoritative source, and Jesus Himself grounded His identity, His mission, and His claims in the Hebrew Scriptures — not the Quran, not the Vedas, not Egyptian cosmology.
The reason Christians treat the Bible as evidence is not because “we like it,” but because Jesus treated it as God’s own testimony, repeatedly saying “It is written,” “Have you not read,” and “The Scripture cannot be broken.”
If you reject Scripture as evidence, you’re not rejecting my personal belief — you’re rejecting the very foundation Jesus used to prove who He was.
And yes, Jesus is in the beginning: John 1:1–3 explicitly identifies Him as the Creator, Colossians 1:16–17 confirms it, Hebrews 1:2–3 repeats it, and Revelation 1:17–18 seals it.
That’s not hearsay; that’s multiple independent witnesses inside one unified canon, all testifying to the same reality.
Other religious texts make competing claims, but they contradict both history and each other — the Bible’s claims are internally consistent, historically anchored, and tied to a Person whose resurrection is the single most attested event in ancient history.
So no — this isn’t “my belief,” and it isn’t “dead guys’ notes.” It’s the testimony Jesus Himself used, affirmed, and fulfilled.