Judgmental Christians
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I am judging by your own words, not mine.
Matth 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
Your words of judgment upon all of us is faulty. Even as you confess your own judgment is fallible.
Judgmentalism is a generalized judgment of all people, based upon our own works and experience.
If a Christian is a sinner, and says all Christians must also be sinners, that is falsely judgmental of other Christians.
If a Christian is a fallible judge, and says all Christians must also be fallible judges, that is falsely judgmental of other Christians.
The only way we can justly make such generalized judgments of all Christians, is if the Lord Himself by Scripture declares the same for all His body of believers.
Otherwise, we are only judging by our own personal standard, and not by God's righteous judgment.
You can certainly declare your own fallibility in judgment, and therefore withhold yourself from making such judgments. But you have no Scripture to declare all Christians therefore must be fallible judges as you.
And of course, it's a self-contradiction to say you are a fallible judge, and then presume to judge all Christians are fallible like you. Since your own judgment is faulty, then your judgment of others must be false.
The sinner has no Scriptural right to judge all are sinners like themselves, and the fulty judge has no Scriptural right to judge all are faulty judges like themselves.
Yes. Which you exclude yourself from by your own faulty judgment.
Otherwise, for all other Christians, we are judging righteously by works, and not by appearance, nor by our own experience and works.
I.e. Your own experience is faulty judgment, and then presume by your own experience, to judge we all must be faulty judges.
You can only exclude yourself from righteous judgment and discernment, but not everyone else.
The only just way to conclude all Christians are the same as us, is if Scripture declares it.
No Scripture ever says all Christians are faulty judges. No Scripture ever says Christians cannot judge one another.
Scripture only says that we should judge ourselves by our own works, and that we should judge others by their own works. Unrighteous judgmentalism is judging ourselves and all others by our own works alone.
P.s. (Nor does Scruipture say we can judge the works, but not the person doing the works, which is not spiritually possible. None of us are separated from our works. Our lives are our souls made visible. Our works are our souls in action.)
You've never once heard any Christian say, that we have no right to judge one another? That doing so is judgmental and wrong??
You've been too cloistered around your own kind of Christian. Which makes sense. You've made the same denial of any Christian saying other things, that are commonly known. Your form of judgmentalism, is that no Christian can say anything, that you haven't already said or heard for yourself...
I suppose you'd also say no Christian ever says they are sinners, and will continue to sin in this life? And furthermoes that "we all are sinners, that will continue to sin in life..."
In any case, Christian sinners that say we all are sinners, are the most badly judgmental of all Christians. They presume to judge all of us continue to do unrighteousness like themselves.
However, on the other side, I don't believe I've ever heard any Christian of righteousness presume that all Christians are also doing righteousness at all times. Righteous Christians are the least judgmental of others.
2Co 3:12
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
Applies to any language. Diverting to original word debates is mostly a diversion from plain words in our own language.
if you want help understanding what I say from Scripture, just ask me something specific about what you quote from me, and I'd be glad to try and make it more simple.
ATG Says:
But any Christian then concluding we are all sinners, are false judges speaking evil of other Christians.
Seems clear enough to me. There are Christians that say they are sinners, and also say all Christians are sinners. Based upon their own sinful works walone, they speak evil of other Christians.
Bad judgmentalism is generalizing all Christians must be the same as ourselves. I.e. 'Everybody's doing it..."
Good. Glad to hear you're not evn thinking of doing it.
I only say some Christians say they are sinners, and so all Christians must also be sinners themselves...I don't go anywhere near thinking like that myself.
Of course. And we all are admonished to do the same between ourselves.
Rom 15:14
And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
Every Christian by virtue of the Spirit can rightly judge ourselves and each other equally by our works. Jesus gives us the pattern of judgment among ourselves in the church, that we should take a fault first to each other, then in the company of others, and finally if unresolved, to be taken before the whole church:
Mat 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Judging and admonishing ourselves and each other by the works we do, is not the false judgmentalism of some Christians.
The bad judgmentalism is that we ought not to judge all Christians by our own works alone. I.e. Just because some Christians may be doing it, does not mean everybody's doing it...
And so we see, that the bad judgmentalism of some Christians is not the righteous judgment of other Christians.
Only the Christians, that judge themselves sinners by their own sinful works, have no Scriptural right to then judge all Christians are also sinners doing sinful works.
The Christian sinner, that says "we are all sinners", and "we all continue to sin in life", are the judgmental Christians, that presume to judge all Christians as being sinners like themselves. They will not acknowledge that some Christians could be righteous saints doing righteousness in life, and not sinful works.
Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.
Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
1Th 4:1
Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
Just because there are some, or maybe even many Christians, that are still sinning against God, does not mean that there are no remnant of Christians, that are walking as Jesus walked and pleasing God and we ought.
Rom 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin…Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
As with the Jews, so also with the Christians, not everyone's a sinner committing sin against God and Jesus Christ.
And, I have never heard one of those righteously walking Christians ever being wrongly judgmental, and saying that all Christians are therefore pleasing God in all things they do.
Some Christian sinners are badly judgmental about all other Christians. And Christians saints are the least judgmental of other Christians.
Conclusion: There are particular group of sinful Christians, who say, "We are all sinners" "We all sin in life"
That is the bad judgmentalism of some, that are commtting sins themselves, and then speaking evil of all Christians, as though we are all sinners committing sins the same as they.
We all can debate whether Christians do sin, and whether we are justified by Christ, even if we are sinning.
However, to judgmentally argue in the debate, that we are all sinners that do sin in life, is n ot only false judgment, but also a particularly evil thing to preach to all Christians.
Nor does it help any argument of being justified, even while committing sin. As though if everybody's doing it, then God must justify us all by our faith alone, because He would not possibly condemn us all by our works, if we are all doing it.
That is not only speaking evil of all Christians, but it's also the false premise of blanket justification, that the flood proves is a lie. Everyone that was doing it in the day of Noah, did perish in the flood. And Jesus warns us likewise in the day of His own coming, that it will be the same as that of Noah: Everyone doing it will be washed away...
Mat 24:38
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Is it not the blanket judgmentalism of the unbelievers, that accuse all Christians of being sinful, just because some Christians are? How much less should we be confirming the world's false judgmentalism, by accusing all other Christians of being sinners committing sin, just because some, or even we are...
That is the bad judgmentalism of some, that are commtting sins themselves, and then speaking evil of all Christians, as though we are all sinners committing sins the same as they.
We all can debate whether Christians do sin, and whether we are justified by Christ, even if we are sinning.
However, to judgmentally argue in the debate, that we are all sinners that do sin in life, is n ot only false judgment, but also a particularly evil thing to preach to all Christians.
Nor does it help any argument of being justified, even while committing sin. As though if everybody's doing it, then God must justify us all by our faith alone, because He would not possibly condemn us all by our works, if we are all doing it.
That is not only speaking evil of all Christians, but it's also the false premise of blanket justification, that the flood proves is a lie. Everyone that was doing it in the day of Noah, did perish in the flood. And Jesus warns us likewise in the day of His own coming, that it will be the same as that of Noah: Everyone doing it will be washed away...
Mat 24:38
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Is it not the blanket judgmentalism of the unbelievers, that accuse all Christians of being sinful, just because some Christians are? How much less should we be confirming the world's false judgmentalism, by accusing all other Christians of being sinners committing sin, just because some, or even we are...
This is a copy-paste way of claiming ignorance, so as not to respond to the answers given.
Mat 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Yes, I confess that I am a fallible sinner, and I believe Scripture teaches everyone is such, even though Christians are credited with sharing the righteousness of Christ (Phil. 3:12-16).
Thus, I judge no one's spiritual condition but confine myself to discussing/discerning correct understanding of Scripture.
I apologize if I gave an impression otherwise, and thanks for the loving reproof.
Once again, that's your own personal confession of your own sinful works. Judging by your own sinful works does not make all Christians the same as you.
Nor does it make the Bible agree with you.
You are a judgmental Christian, that judges all Christians to be the same as you: Sinful.
This is irrelevant to judging all people to be the same as yourself, based solely upon your own sinful works alone.
It's a judgmentalism based upon a reinforcing ideology, that wants to believe committing sin has nothing to do with the soul.
You've only argued from your own sinful life, and your own judgment alone about others, and your own faith alone about our souls being separated from our works.
You reinforce your bad judgmentalsim forbidden by Scripture, with your own faith alone ideology rejected by Scripture.
No problem. And thank you. I do love the truth of Scripture, and so do not at all judge all Christians to be the same as myself, whether sinful or righteous.I apologize if I gave an impression otherwise, and thanks for the loving reproof.
All Christians are not sinners, nor are all Christians doing righteousness. Some Christians repent not to continue doing evil, and some Christians repent to do good and not evil.
Mat 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.
Well, I doubt any Christians are less sinful than Paul, who did not claim to be perfect (Phil. 3:12).
Thus, I am not quite ready to amend the following pericope and add "g. a sinless person" to the items,
but here is what I guess it would look like:
Some people are sinless (ATG), but most do not achieve moral perfection in this life (Phil. 3:12). A person who claims to be godly but who is behaving in an ungodly (unloving, untruthful) manner may be in one of the following categories except g:
a. a normally loving person observed during a rare moment when he/she acted uncharacteristically (Phil. 3:12-16),
b. an immature Believer, who is making progress–you should have known him/her a year ago! (1Cor. 3:1-3, Eph. 4:11-15)
c. a truthseeker who has not yet learned the correct interpretation of God’s Word (1Cor. 6:9-11, Eph. 5:8-9), or
d. a pseudo-Christian (Matt. 7:21, 1John 2:19), who affirms Jesus as Messiah but rejects His Lordship.
e. an apostate or heretic (1John 2:19, Heb. 6:4-6), who once believed but became blasphemous or foolish and ship-wrecked their faith (1Tim. 1:19-20).
f. An atheist, who may imitate divine love without glorifying the One whose power makes it a golden rule rather than merely a pyrite suggestion.
g. a sinless person (ATG)
Truly?
Now you compound your judgmentalism by fainding fault with the apostle, with another self-reinforcing belief in all Christians being sinful.
Now your off on another irrelavant tangent.
In any case, if sinlessness is not moral perfection, then how is moral perfection greater than not sinning nor doing evil?
At least you're consistent. As a sinner, you say all Christians are sinners. And even if a Christian is not sinner, then they're still doing sinful things. I.e. the self-reinforcing belief, that there is no Christian on earth not doing unrighteousness, if we ourselves are committing sin.
Judgmentalism is the pride of believing we ourselves are the example of everyone else.
The problem with justifying our own sins and trespasses by claiming everybody's doing it, is that everybody isn't doing it, and everybody doing it is unjustified with God. So even if everybody's doing it on earth like you, then none are justified.
But God has always has a righteous remnant and witness on earth, even when all the world was doing it, and perished in their own transgressions:
Gen 6:8
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Well, you are the first person I have ever encountered who claimed some Christians are sinless in practice
as well as being credited with the righteousness of Christ.
And you are also the first person I have met who judges confessing sin to be justifying sinning.
Is there a denomination I have missed?
There are two kinds of judging. The first is in the sense of a court of law. That is entirely God's domain. But there is a place for judging behaviour that is unacceptable to God. For example, Paul told the Corinthians to excommunicate the man sleeping with his "father's wife, probably his stepmother (implied by the text). Even the pagans revolted at that sin.
A doctor judges his patients. He will advise medications but also suggest lifestyle changes if it will help. A friend of mine is a smoker and 50. She has early signs of emphysema. The doctors have told her to quit. Is that being judgemental?
"The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment." 1 Corinthians 2:15
There is legitimate judging. Paul gave guidelines that should apply to elders. The Western world would accuse him of discrimination. Yes, it is. God discriminates too. Wheat and tares, sheep and goats, dead in sin or alive in Christ.
I know of two churches that imploded because they tolerated imposters and the divisive. It could have been avoided.
Not when you state something one minute, and then disagree with yourself the next in your own words.
Saying that my statement is not believed nor said by any Christian, is not asking for clarification.
When you address by statemtn, and mabye show any error in my words, then I'll be glad to respond. Otherwise, once again I'm finished with you in this topic too,
Read the Scriptures of righteousness more, and listen to sinful Christians less.
Typical mistatement. I always at least quote someone, before talking about what they say. It doesn't guarrentee I won't read them wrong, but it does guarrantee I don't do it on purpose to justify myself.