The Church, and Israel and the Last Days.

WayneNSO said:

I agree with that

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Everybody agrees with that. I swear I need to make it my signature. smh

Churchgoer said:

does not mean today we encourage them to reject Jesus

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Who's telling them to reject Jesus?

Churchgoer said:

to murder, to plunder, to bomb, to immorality.....

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You're lying again.

OMC said:

Sister, I mentioned that on my first day here. It’s not a secret, or at least I didn’t think so. But everyone else is using it too, so why am I being singled out?

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There are no rules here about using AI. And it simply pull information already on the net. It shows you the pages it is referencing. It's no different than Google.

I am going to starting in rev 6 with the breaking of the 5th seal. and just fast forward. to the next chronological event concerning the church. Meaning This is not some scrap book exegesis where you have to go to 15 different verse fragments through out the OT and NT to force the bible to support this idea. Rather we start in rev 6 :9 and just read straight though and let things play out:

Rev 6: 9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

Remember what is Going on here. we are at the point in the tribulation where Jesus has broken 5 of the 7 seals on the title deed to the earth. Meaning these events must take place before Jesus can take possession of the world back from Satan. We are 3/4 of the way through the great tribulation (this will be noted in a coming verse) and the servants of God (The church) are being killed by the anti christ/The rest of this world. And the souls of the martyrs are crying out to God to avenge them. Then they are given White robes and told to wait for everyone else who is to be martyred (Their fellow believers) to be martyred... Meaning there can't be a pretrib or even a mid trib rapture, because these guys die in the great tribulation. which rev 7:9 talks about right after the 144K jewish remnant is introduced in verses 1-8.

9After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.

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(This is the current gentile church who is standing before the lamb in Heaven.)

They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

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White robes Just like the Martyrs in Rev 6's 5th seal who where crying out for God to avenge their Deaths, for maintaining their faith during the great tribulation; and God said wait till all the servants/brothers and sisters of God who is slated to be martyred are slain, and they where given white robes.

So, Now we see a crowd of souls so large from all nations and people that no one could count them. And they too are given white robes.. Now you might want to say these are the souls of all saints for the last 2000 years...

Fast forward to verse 13 and we are told who there souls belong to:

10And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”

11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:

“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
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"These are the souls of those who came out of the great tribulation." Meaning these souls (who are faithful to God during the tribulation) where not raptured. They where murdered/beheaded during the great tribulation. So again, the current church is not the church of the rapture.
Remember i am a believer in the rapture. Which is described of the 144,000 jewish remnant in Rev 14. It's not something 'we' will have to worry about.

You asked what should we do to prepare for the rapture? We need to be ready to die for what we believe, even if it means there will be no rapture for us.

I would like to touch this since you said it. "“If a man misuses a Bible, the problem is not the Bible. If a man misuses AI, the problem is not AI."

That bible is alive and those words are out of time and space. AI, there is no as Christ has said "no life in it". Made by whom and It gathers info from where? There are times I have tired AI to reword what I spoke since.. I am awful with words. Yet in the end ...I post it and.. looks beautiful yet its not real as in I never said all that .. to not tell anyone I would for me be deceiving so I don't use it. There is never going to be a day in which I can trust it since its not from God not based purely on God. It will always have man as the start of it.

For me it is the sweet sweet holy Spirit that spotted it. Thank you Father.

A great post, agree totally.

Drich said:

I am going to starting in rev 6 with the breaking of the 5th seal. and just fast forward. to the next chronological event concerning the church. Meaning This is not some scrap book exegesis where you have to go to 15 different verse fragments through out the OT and NT to force the bible to support this idea. Rather we start in rev 6 :9 and just read straight though and let things play out:

Rev 6: 9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

Remember what is Going on here. we are at the point in the tribulation where Jesus has broken 5 of the 7 seals on the title deed to the earth. Meaning these events must take place before Jesus can take possession of the world back from Satan. We are 3/4 of the way through the great tribulation (this will be noted in a coming verse) and the servants of God (The church) are being killed by the anti christ/The rest of this world. And the souls of the martyrs are crying out to God to avenge them. Then they are given White robes and told to wait for everyone else who is to be martyred (Their fellow believers) to be martyred... Meaning there can't be a pretrib or even a mid trib rapture, because these guys die in the great tribulation. which rev 7:9 talks about right after the 144K jewish remnant is introduced in verses 1-8.



(This is the current gentile church who is standing before the lamb in Heaven.)



White robes Just like the Martyrs in Rev 6's 5th seal who where crying out for God to avenge their Deaths, for maintaining their faith during the great tribulation; and God said wait till all the servants/brothers and sisters of God who is slated to be martyred are slain, and they where given white robes.

So, Now we see a crowd of souls so large from all nations and people that no one could count them. And they too are given white robes.. Now you might want to say these are the souls of all saints for the last 2000 years...

Fast forward to verse 13 and we are told who there souls belong to:


"These are the souls of those who came out of the great tribulation." Meaning these souls (who are faithful to God during the tribulation) where not raptured. They where murdered/beheaded during the great tribulation. So again, the current church is not the church of the rapture.
Remember i am a believer in the rapture. Which is described of the 144,000 jewish remnant in Rev 14. It's not something 'we' will have to worry about.

You asked what should we do to prepare for the rapture? We need to be ready to die for what we believe, even if it means there will be no rapture for us.

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What does this have to do with the opening post?

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Israel shall he saved with an everlasting salvation world without end.

So God did not stop working with them.

The Church is world without end.

When a Gentile is saved they belong to the commonwealth of Israel.

God worked with Israel that would develop in to the Church.

Both covenants were given to Israel and the Gentiles were included.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

God created a new covenant with Israel which He will forgive their iniquity, and He will remember their sins no more.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

God did not cast away His people and when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles then all Israel shall be saved.

Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Israel shall never cease from being a nation and God will not cast them away.

God always restores Israel and He will not stop working with them.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance on His part.

Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

God will bring all 12 tribes of Israel back to their land and leave none of them in the nations anymore.

Which Israel as a nation will always be in the truth from that time forward which God will turn them to the truth.

So this is in the future which Israel will be the only operating nation in the millennial reign of Christ.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.Israel shall he saved with an everlasting salvation world without end.

Israel shall be saved with an everlasting salvation world without end.

The Church is world without end.

At the New Jerusalem the world without end the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles of the Lamb are written there.

And that is because Israel developed in to the Church because it is Israel all the way.

First natural and then spiritual.

Israel scattered in to the world because as a nation they did not accept Jesus.

But God always restores Israel which they will never cease from being a nation, and God will never cast them away, and all Israel shall be saved, and world without end.

Israel is saved with an everlasting salvation world without end.

Israel is world without end.

That is why when a Gentile is saved they belong to Israel.

It appears as if the Bible is a parable to some people for they do not understand.

They cry out they do not understand but they do not understand.

They will toss Israel to the side but God says He will accept and exalt Israel.

Goldwing said:

What does this have to do with the opening post?

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Tell me you did not read my post before commenting, without telling me you did not read my post before commenting.

OMC said:

The Church does go through tribulation.Those are not the same thing.**

That’s the whole issue.

Wrath ≠ Tribulation

Wrath = God judging the wicked
Tribulation = the world persecuting the Church

Paul says both in the same book:

“We are destined for tribulation.” (1 Thess 3:3)
“God has not appointed us to wrath.” (1 Thess 5:9)
Your merging them. Paul separates them.

The Great Tribulation is Satan’s wrath, not God’s
Revelation 12:
“The devil has great wrath.”
“He went to make war with the saints.”
That’s tribulation.

Not God judging His own body.

God’s wrath comes after the tribulation
Jesus: “Immediately after the tribulation… the Son of Man comes.” (Matt 24:29–30)
Revelation: Tribulation = chapters 6–13 Wrath = chapters 14–19
Two different phases.

The Church is present during tribulation, absent during wrath
Same pattern as Exodus:
Israel suffered oppression (tribulation)
Israel was spared the plagues (wrath)
The Church follows the same pattern.

• The Church = not appointed to wrath
• The Church = appointed to tribulation
• Tribulation = Satan’s rage
• Wrath = God’s judgment
• Scripture never merges them

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I agree with most of this.
However the rapture is pretrib.
Jesus used Noah And Lot as analogies of his coming.
Jesus taught pretrib rapture.
Ask a postribber about the setting of the rapture.
None of the setting is postrib.

The ONLY postrib rapture is rev 14.
And that is The covenant Jews Paul prophesied would be regrafted in Romans 9-11.

All other rapture verses are pretrib setting.

OMC said:

The Church does go through tribulation.Those are not the same thing.**

That’s the whole issue.

Wrath ≠ Tribulation

Wrath = God judging the wicked
Tribulation = the world persecuting the Church

Paul says both in the same book:

“We are destined for tribulation.” (1 Thess 3:3)
“God has not appointed us to wrath.” (1 Thess 5:9)
Your merging them. Paul separates them.

The Great Tribulation is Satan’s wrath, not God’s
Revelation 12:
“The devil has great wrath.”
“He went to make war with the saints.”
That’s tribulation.

Not God judging His own body.

God’s wrath comes after the tribulation
Jesus: “Immediately after the tribulation… the Son of Man comes.” (Matt 24:29–30)
Revelation: Tribulation = chapters 6–13 Wrath = chapters 14–19
Two different phases.

The Church is present during tribulation, absent during wrath
Same pattern as Exodus:
Israel suffered oppression (tribulation)
Israel was spared the plagues (wrath)
The Church follows the same pattern.

• The Church = not appointed to wrath
• The Church = appointed to tribulation
• Tribulation = Satan’s rage
• Wrath = God’s judgment
• Scripture never merges them

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Every rapture verse is pretrib setting.

The trib is 7 yrs according to Daniel.
The last half of the 7yr tribulation is worse. ...and we see the wrath.

The AOD is mid 7yr trib.
The rapture of rev 14:14 is mid 7yr trib.
The 144,000 gathered is close to mid trib.

The AC inaugurates the 7 yr trib on a white horse.
He is ANTICHRIST, But postribs think he is a peaceful teddy bear, and he does nothing to believers, so they "make it through" the trib.

No believer "makes it through" the trib.
Those left behind, either take the mark or die.
According to the bible.

OMC said:

Your claim is confident but built on a system that Scripture itself does not support. Jesus absolutely used Noah and Lot as analogies of sudden judgment, but He never used them to teach a pretrib rapture; He used them to teach unexpectedness, not timing. Every detail in the Noah and Lot narratives — judgment falling the same day, the wicked destroyed, the righteous delivered — matches the post‑trib setting Jesus Himself describes in Matthew 24:29–31, where He explicitly says His coming and the gathering of His elect occur “after the tribulation.” Your claim that “all other rapture verses are pretrib” is not text‑anchored; it is system‑anchored. And Revelation 14 is not “the only post‑trib rapture” for covenant Jews — it is a harvest scene, not a resurrection passage. Paul’s regrafting in Romans 9–11 is about Israel’s future faith, not a separate rapture event. So I say this kindly: Jesus did not teach a pretrib rapture; He taught a visible, cosmic, post‑trib gathering. The setting He gives is unmistakable — sun darkened, stars falling, angels sent, trumpet sounding, Son of Man appearing. None of that fits a pretrib framework.

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Ahem
Mat 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Very precise.
The precision of Gods word.
Your doctrine is opposite.

Re read your postrib rapture reference of mat 24
Here it is in PRECISION...NOT MANS DOCTRINE. Or system.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

AFTER THE TRIB...
WHAT?
ANGELS GATHER. they are SENT BY JESUS.
JESUS does not participate.
Where do they gather????
IN HEAVEN.

The rapture of the church IS A GATHERING FROM EARTH...not heaven
BY JESUS.
(Opposite you system of belief)

Every rapture verses...all of them, are PRETRIB SETTING.
Your claim they are not is ludicrous.
You need to study it before relying on your system.
You are using a system and not scripture.

Really????
You did not know the setting of the rapture is pretrib in MULTIPLE VERSES?

OMC said:

You say every rapture verse is pre‑trib, but Jesus Himself places the gathering of His elect “after the tribulation” (Matt 24:29–31), which is the clearest rapture timing statement in the Bible. You say the tribulation is a 7‑year period from Daniel, but Daniel never mentions a future 7‑year tribulation — that comes from inserting a gap into the 70 weeks. You say the AOD is mid‑trib, but Jesus places it before His visible return, not before a secret removal of the church. You say Revelation 14:14 is a mid‑trib rapture, but it is a harvest scene, not a resurrection passage. You say no believer “makes it through” the tribulation, yet Jesus explicitly says “he that endures to the end shall be saved” and Paul says the church will be alive at Christ’s coming. Your system requires a pre‑trib rapture, a 7‑year tribulation, a mid‑trib harvest, and universal martyrdom — but none of that comes from the text.

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Read rev 15.
The Jewish harvest of rev 14 is IMMEDIATELY BEFORE the wrath.

Daniel placed the trib at 7yrs not me.
In fact, "IN THE MIDDLE " , is the AOD

So reread Daniel.

The second coming of rev 19 is not the rapture.
Jesus placed the rapture preflood/ pretrib.

The setting is what really kills your entire deal.
The setting.
Your system of doctrine overlooked the setting.

Your doctrine is poorly thought out.

OMC said:

the issue is not the tool — it’s the spirit in which the tool is used.
AI is nothing more than a digital concordance with a mouth.
It can accelerate Scripture study, expose contradictions, surface cross‑references, and force clarity — but it cannot replace discernment, humility, or the Holy Spirit.”
“If a man misuses a Bible, the problem is not the Bible.
If a man misuses AI, the problem is not AI.
The heart governs the tool.” “Scripture never forbids tools.
It forbids pride, false teaching, quarrels, and foolish controversies.
If AI helps us stay on the text, stay honest, stay precise, and stay accountable, then it is simply another instrument of study — like lexicons, manuscripts, interlinears, or commentaries.”
“We are not using AI to replace Scripture.
We are using it to return to Scripture — to strip away narratives, systems, and emotional reactions so the text can speak plainly.”
“AI is not the teacher.
AI is the flashlight.
The Word is the truth.
The Spirit is the interpreter.
We are the ones responsible for discernment.”

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Interesting.
With me it is zero ai . Just me, and the Kj, and greens interlinear received text.

...and we do a great job.

OMC said:

You’re absolutely right that God’s Word is precise—and that’s exactly why your conclusion doesn’t hold up when we slow down and let the precision speak.

Noah, “taken,” and “left”​

In Matthew 24:37–39, Jesus’ analogy is crystal clear:
Who is “taken” in Noah’s day? Label: The wicked
“the flood came, and took them all away”
The ones “taken” are those destroyed in judgment, not the saved.

Who is “left”? Label: The righteous Noah and his family remain alive and preserved.

So when Jesus says, “so shall also the coming of the Son of man be… one shall be taken, and the other left,” the natural reading is: taken in judgment, left in preservation—the exact opposite of the usual pretrib spin. The precision of the text cuts against the idea that “taken” = raptured believers.

You quoted the key passage yourself: “Immediately after the tribulation… then shall appear the sign of the Son of man… and he shall send his angels… and they shall gather together his elect…”

The sequence is explicit:

Label: Tribulation
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days”
Label: Cosmic signs
“sun be darkened… moon… stars… powers… shaken”
Label: Visible coming
“they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds… with power and great glory”
Label: Gathering of the elect
“he shall send his angels… they shall gather together his elect”

That is post‑trib timing in Jesus’ own words. There is no way to make “immediately after the tribulation” mean “before the tribulation” without overriding the precision you say you honor.

You said: “AFTER THE TRIB… WHAT? ANGELS GATHER… Where do they gather???? IN HEAVEN.”

But Jesus actually says: “they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

That phrase “from one end of heaven to the other” is a way of saying “from all directions, all over creation”—a global sweep, not “already in heaven.” It matches the language of 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17:

Label: Descent
“the Lord himself shall descend from heaven”
Label: Trumpet
“with the trump of God”
Label: Gathering
“we… shall be caught up… to meet the Lord in the air”

Same elements: visible coming, trumpet, gathering. Matthew 24:31 and 1 Thessalonians 4 are describing the same event, not two different ones.

You said: “ANGELS GATHER. they are SENT BY JESUS. JESUS does not participate.”
But the text says:

Label: Jesus appears
“they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory”
Label: Jesus acts
“he shall send his angels…”

Sending His angels is participation.
In 1 Thessalonians 4, He personally descends and we meet Him; in Matthew 24, He appears in glory and commands the angels to gather. Different angles on the same moment, not opposite doctrines.

“Every rapture verse is pretrib”
You keep saying that, but you haven’t shown one verse that explicitly says:

the church is taken before the tribulation,
the Antichrist rises after the church is gone,
believers do not face the great tribulation.

Jesus says the opposite:
Label: Timing
“after the tribulation… he shall… gather his elect”
Label: Endurance
“he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved”
Paul says the opposite:
Label: Signs before gathering

2 Thess 2:1–4—apostasy and man of sin revealed before our gathering
Your position is confident, but it’s built on a system that has to re‑label Jesus’ own chronology to survive.

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The NOAH AND LOT analogies, are in fact, ANALOGIES.

So, there is no boat, city, flood, rain, hailstones of fire, Noah himself, Lot himself, OR ALL THE POPULATION DESTROYED.
Instead they are INDIRECT players.
Your conclusion is limited to
A PRETIB RAPTURE OF WICKED PEOPLE AND "SUDDENNESS"

Suddenness is correct.
Every other claim is way off.

Really???
A pretrib rapture of wicked people?????
In BOTH analogies by Jesus, he says half are taken, So your deal is half the world is wicked and half righteous????
Huh?????
Where do you get this stuff from????

How do you honestly jettison the SETTING, WHICH IS PRETRIB?????
WHY RE-LABEL THAT????

OMC said:

You say Noah and Lot are “just analogies,” but Jesus explicitly says “so shall also the coming of the Son of man be” — meaning the pattern carries over, not the props. In Noah’s day, the ones taken were the wicked swept away in judgment; the ones left were the righteous preserved. In Lot’s day, the ones taken were the destroyed; the ones left were the spared. Jesus is not teaching a pretrib rapture of wicked people — He is teaching that His coming brings sudden, dividing judgment, exactly like those events. And your claim that the “setting is pretrib” is the part that contradicts the text: Jesus Himself says the gathering of the elect happens “immediately after the tribulation” (Matt 24:29–31). You can’t jettison that timing without re‑labeling Jesus’ own words. The analogies teach suddenness and separation; the timing passage teaches post‑trib. The only way to get a pretrib setting is to override the sequence Jesus gives

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Everybody sees suddenness.
We all see it.

Everybody sees the second coming is after the trib, or wrath, or whatever.
We all see it.
....so both of those dynamics are not going anywhere.

I don't see, or say that Jesus is teaching a rapture of wicked people
Your doctrine however DOES TEACH THAT AND YOU PROCLAIM IT.
The "One taken", according to YOUR DOCTRINE, is some made up "wicked person taken before the flood".
You literally made it up.