The Church, and Israel and the Last Days.

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OMC said:
Wow you are a lot of work!

Lot was taken by the hand and led to safty by the Angel,
Those left behind in the cities were TAKEN BY FIRE, TAKEN, REMOVED, NOT REPTURED, REMOVED!
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Look it up in Luke 17
It says SODOMS INHABITANTS were destroyed.
NOTHING OF TAKEN AWAY.

THEN get you a strongs concordamce and see what it says of those takenaway.

Here ya go. I know you need a little help

Strong's Concordance
to take up, take away
A primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. Weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare nasa') to expiate sin -- away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

Huh????
It looks like it says NOAH WEIGHED ANCHOR. AND SAILED AWAY!!!!

hey...maybe the wicked had boats too?????

Nothing in there of an instance of ANY WICKED taken anywhere.

It can also mean taking away sin.

wow, that's a lot for you to modify huh?
 
Revelation1v8 said:
No, what we was pointing out to you is that NEITHER Lot or Noah were the ones removed from the earth, the rest of the people in Sodom & Gomorrah were the ones being removed from the earth.

A rapture is an event where people are removed from the earth.

Two separate events. Two different ways. One was removal for judgement. The other is a removal for salvation.
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We usually see eye to eye on most things, except for the 1000 years topic. I appreciate your restraint during moments of frustration and thank you for discussing the matter rather than arguing about it.😊
 
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Revelation1v8 said:
No, what we was pointing out to you is that NEITHER Lot or Noah were the ones removed from the earth, the rest of the people in Sodom & Gomorrah were the ones being removed from the earth.

A rapture is an event where people are removed from the earth.

Two separate events. Two different ways. One was removal for judgement. The other is a removal for salvation.
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Show me they were removed for judgement.
 
OMC said:
It is impossible to hold an intelligent conversation with you. I bid you good day.
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You need them removed.
Plain as day.

You modified the Bible to get "removal" where there is no such thing.
 
Psalm1 said:
It says SODOMS INHABITANTS were destroyed.
NOTHING OF TAKEN AWAY.
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You are confusing lexical wording with semantic function, and Jesus is appealing to the function, not the word choice.
Do you understand what I mean by that?
 
Revelation1v8 said:
No, what we was pointing out to you is that NEITHER Lot or Noah were the ones removed from the earth, the rest of the people in Sodom & Gomorrah were the ones being removed from the earth.

A rapture is an event where people are removed from the earth.

Two separate events. Two different ways. One was removal for judgement. The other is a removal for salvation.
Click to expand...
Nope
Genesis 19
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.

Nothing of any removal save Lot and his family.
No brainer.
 
Psalm1 said:
Nope
Genesis 19
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.

Nothing of any removal save Lot and his family.
No brainer.
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🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
 
Revelation1v8 said:
Ha! That would require you to go back and read that long post I made with scripture that you refused to read. Are you sure you want to do that?
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I can save you some time.
With the Noah analogy, the "took" them away is actually
" to take away"
"To Set sail"
" to weigh anchor"
" to take away sin"

Nothing of judgement


With lot in Luke 17, sodom's population was destroyed.
Nothing of taken away anywhere.

You guys literally made it up.
 
Psalm1 said:
Nope
Genesis 19
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.

Nothing of any removal save Lot and his family.
No brainer.
Click to expand...

Where's the facepalm emoji when you need it? Verse Genesis 19:23 tells you that Lot went to Zoar to be spared. Zoar is on the earth. Lot was not REMOVED FROM THE EARTH the people who died in Sodom and Gomorrah were removed from the earth when they died in the fire.

This whole conversation is about who is being removed from the earth.
 
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Psalm1 said:
Show me anywhere sodoms inhabitants are removed.
In, for, because of, out, with, or whatever dodge you need in there.
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I had to ask the AI to explain what I was saying thinking maybe I'm just not explaining it clear, and it says this..
  • In Sodom, the wicked stay in the city and are destroyed—they are removed from the world by judgment.
  • Lot is taken out of the city before the judgment falls—he is left alive after the destruction.
So in terms of function:

  • The wicked are “taken” in the sense that they are removed by judgment—they no longer remain.
  • The righteous are “left” in the sense that they survive and remain after judgment.
Genesis doesn’t use the exact word “taken,” but it describes the same action:

  • Wicked: destroyed, overthrown, burned up → removed.
  • Lot: brought out, spared, left alive → preserved.
Jesus compresses that into the language of “taken” vs “left” to describe what will happen at His coming:

  • Some will be taken in judgment (like those in the flood, like those in Sodom).
  • Some will be left for salvation (like Noah, like Lot).

Sounds like what ive been saying
 
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Psalm1 said:
I can save you some time.
With the Noah analogy, the "took" them away is actually
" to take away"
"To Set sail"
" to weigh anchor"
" to take away sin"

Nothing of judgement


With lot in Luke 17, sodom's population was destroyed.
Nothing of taken away anywhere.

You guys literally made it up.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, that's not how those verses in Matthew 24 read.

Matthew 24:38-39

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Verse 39 is telling you that the people eating, drinking, and marrying had no clue the flood was coming until it took them all away. Noah knew the flood was coming, which is why he spent 120 years building the ark. Noah KNEW. The lost people KNEW NOT.
 
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Wow! Someone is personifying the abject panic of those who hope to be evacuated from the earth just prior to the Lord's glorious triumph at the end of the age. Tell us you do not trust the Lord to see you through the end times without writing you do not trust the Lord to see you through the end times.
 
Aaron56 said:
Wow! Someone is personifying the abject panic of those who hope to be evacuated from the earth just prior to the Lord's glorious triumph at the end of the age. Tell us you do not trust the Lord to see you through the end times without writing you do not trust the Lord to see you through the end times.
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I think part of the problem is that when I first watched the Left Behind series 47 years ago, it was showing this exact scene of people being plucked up for the sake of salvation and a pre-trib rapture. I've spent many hours and days searching the scriptures for whether there's going to be a pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rapture and while I think everyone can find scriptures to support all of them, I refuse to go there any more. What will be will be. I can't just assume that God's going to rescue me from a tribulation death when all of the Disciples were martyred except for John.

Daniel 12 mentions the increase of knowledge as times gets closer to the end and we certainly have the ability to compare scriptures easier today for all possibilities than we ever had before through technology, but some things just weren't meant to be revealed so easily.
 
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Aaron56 said:
Wow! Someone is personifying the abject panic of those who hope to be evacuated from the earth just prior to the Lord's glorious triumph at the end of the age. Tell us you do not trust the Lord to see you through the end times without writing you do not trust the Lord to see you through the end times.
Click to expand...

Here's something I find ironic about our conversation with Psalm1. When I chose to use A.I. to tell me based on all of the scriptures combined, which was the most likely to happen, it tells me that the Matthew 24 argument is used to support a POST tribulation rapture! LOL!

Here are the results below:

Based on the provided search context, there is no definitive scriptural consensus that assigns a higher probability to one view over the others, as all three positions are held by sincere believers and cite specific passages. However, post-tribulationism is argued by some to have the "strongest scriptural support" due to its alignment with the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:29-31, which explicitly places the event after the tribulation.

Pre-tribulationism is supported by arguments regarding the imminency of Christ’s return (no signs required) and promises of deliverance from wrath in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and Revelation 3:10. Mid-tribulationism posits the rapture occurs at the midpoint when God’s specific wrath begins, often citing the sixth seal in Revelation 6.

Ultimately, the texts indicate that the timing is a matter of interpretation rather than explicit, unambiguous proof, with key disagreements centering on whether the church is removed before judgment or preserved through it.

  • Post-trib: Points to Matthew 24:29-31 and the lack of a distinct "rapture" event separate from the Second Coming.
  • Pre-trib: Points to 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (no prerequisites) and Revelation 3:10 (kept from the hour of trial).
  • Mid-trib: Points to Revelation 11:15 and the midpoint of Daniel’s seventieth week.
 
Revelation1v8 said:
I think part of the problem is that when I first watched the Left Behind series 47 years ago, it was showing this exact scene of people being plucked up for the sake of salvation and a pre-trib rapture. I've spent many hours and days searching the scriptures for whether there's going to be a pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rapture and while I think everyone can find scriptures to support all of them, I refuse to go there any more. What will be will be. I can't just assume that God's going to rescue me from a tribulation death when all of the Disciples were martyred except for John.

Daniel 12 mentions the increase of knowledge as times gets closer to the end and we certainly have the ability to compare scriptures easier today for all possibilities than we ever had before through technology, but some things just weren't meant to be revealed so easily.
Click to expand...
Tribulation isn’t some far-off future event but the everyday reality of living in a broken world. Jesus made it clear: “In the world you will have tribulation” (John 16:33), and Paul reminded the churches, “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22). Scripture shows these troubles will ramp up as the end approaches—wars, rumors of wars, nations clashing, famines, plagues, and earthquakes growing like labor pains (Matt 24:6–8), with fear gripping hearts as the heavens are shaken (Luke 21:26). Believers aren’t taken out of the world during these trials; Jesus says they’re kept safe through them (John 17:15), sealed and shielded from God’s wrath (Rev 7:3; 9:4), yet still on earth where the Beast fights against the saints (Rev 13:7). As conflict intensifies and creation groans under the strain (Rom 8:22), the faithful endure, even unto death, until Christ returns and gathers His people (Matt 24:29–31).
 
Revelation1v8 said:
Unfortunately, that's not how those verses in Matthew 24 read.

Matthew 24:38-39

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Verse 39 is telling you that the people eating, drinking, and marrying had no clue the flood was coming until it took them all away. Noah knew the flood was coming, which is why he spent 120 years building the ark. Noah KNEW. The lost people KNEW NOT.
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Ok
....and.
What is your point.?
There was no "took" in the passage?

I am playing devil's advocate.
It is you guys centering on "took"
That is WHY you guys are insisting sodoms inhabitants were "taken" in your confused system.

So now you are diverting somewhere else.
 
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