The Church, and Israel and the Last Days.

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Here's something I find ironic about our conversation with Psalm1. When I chose to use A.I. to tell me based on all of the scriptures combined, which was the most likely to happen, it tells me that the Matthew 24 argument is used to support a POST tribulation rapture! LOL!

Here are the results below:

Based on the provided search context, there is no definitive scriptural consensus that assigns a higher probability to one view over the others, as all three positions are held by sincere believers and cite specific passages. However, post-tribulationism is argued by some to have the "strongest scriptural support" due to its alignment with the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:29-31, which explicitly places the event after the tribulation.

Pre-tribulationism is supported by arguments regarding the imminency of Christ’s return (no signs required) and promises of deliverance from wrath in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and Revelation 3:10. Mid-tribulationism posits the rapture occurs at the midpoint when God’s specific wrath begins, often citing the sixth seal in Revelation 6.

Ultimately, the texts indicate that the timing is a matter of interpretation rather than explicit, unambiguous proof, with key disagreements centering on whether the church is removed before judgment or preserved through it.

  • Post-trib: Points to Matthew 24:29-31 and the lack of a distinct "rapture" event separate from the Second Coming.
  • Pre-trib: Points to 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (no prerequisites) and Revelation 3:10 (kept from the hour of trial).
  • Mid-trib: Points to Revelation 11:15 and the midpoint of Daniel’s seventieth week.
The irony isn’t that an AI “chose” post‑trib; the irony is that when you strip away charts, traditions, and assumptions, and you ask, “Which view has the clearest, explicit passage?” the answer is always the same: Matthew 24:29–31 is the only rapture‑timing text that gives an actual timestamp — after the tribulation.
Every other timing argument (pre‑trib or mid‑trib) depends on inference, system‑logic, or theological stitching.
Matthew 24 doesn’t.
Jesus gives a sequence: tribulation → cosmic signs → Son of Man appears → angels gather the elect.
That’s why even neutral analysis consistently says post‑trib has the “strongest scriptural support.”
It’s not because post‑trib is emotionally appealing; it’s because Jesus places the gathering after the tribulation in the only passage where He ever gives timing.

Pre‑trib arguments rely on imminency (which is not a timing text), wrath passages (which refer to God’s wrath, not the tribulation), and Revelation 3:10 (which promises protection, not removal).
Mid‑trib relies on Revelation’s seals and Daniel’s midpoint.
But none of these passages ever say, “the gathering happens before” or “the gathering happens at the midpoint.”
Only Matthew 24 gives a timestamp.

So the irony you’re seeing is actually clarity:
When the question is asked without a system, the text points to post‑trib.
When the question is asked within a system, the system points to pre‑trib.

And that’s exactly why our debate with Psalm1 keeps circling — he’s defending a system; we are defending a text.
 
Tribulation isn’t some far-off future event but the everyday reality of living in a broken world. Jesus made it clear: “In the world you will have tribulation” (John 16:33), and Paul reminded the churches, “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22). Scripture shows these troubles will ramp up as the end approaches—wars, rumors of wars, nations clashing, famines, plagues, and earthquakes growing like labor pains (Matt 24:6–8), with fear gripping hearts as the heavens are shaken (Luke 21:26). Believers aren’t taken out of the world during these trials; Jesus says they’re kept safe through them (John 17:15), sealed and shielded from God’s wrath (Rev 7:3; 9:4), yet still on earth where the Beast fights against the saints (Rev 13:7). As conflict intensifies and creation groans under the strain (Rom 8:22), the faithful endure, even unto death, until Christ returns and gathers His people (Matt 24:29–31).
Lol.
Yeah we can see the AC already came and went. So there is no future event.

What year did he appear?
Link?
 
Ok
....and.
What is your point.?
There was no "took" in the passage?

I am playing devil's advocate.
It is you guys centering on "took"
That is WHY you guys are insisting sodoms inhabitants were "taken" in your confused system.

So now you are diverting somewhere else.
This is your response? I'm done with you today my friend. peace
 
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The irony isn’t that an AI “chose” post‑trib; the irony is that when you strip away charts, traditions, and assumptions, and you ask, “Which view has the clearest, explicit passage?” the answer is always the same: Matthew 24:29–31 is the only rapture‑timing text that gives an actual timestamp — after the tribulation.
Every other timing argument (pre‑trib or mid‑trib) depends on inference, system‑logic, or theological stitching.
Matthew 24 doesn’t.
Jesus gives a sequence: tribulation → cosmic signs → Son of Man appears → angels gather the elect.
That’s why even neutral analysis consistently says post‑trib has the “strongest scriptural support.”
It’s not because post‑trib is emotionally appealing; it’s because Jesus places the gathering after the tribulation in the only passage where He ever gives timing.

Pre‑trib arguments rely on imminency (which is not a timing text), wrath passages (which refer to God’s wrath, not the tribulation), and Revelation 3:10 (which promises protection, not removal).
Mid‑trib relies on Revelation’s seals and Daniel’s midpoint.
But none of these passages ever say, “the gathering happens before” or “the gathering happens at the midpoint.”
Only Matthew 24 gives a timestamp.

So the irony you’re seeing is actually clarity:
When the question is asked without a system, the text points to post‑trib.
When the question is asked within a system, the system points to pre‑trib.

And that’s exactly why our debate with Psalm1 keeps circling — he’s defending a system; we are defending a text.
Nobody changes the "after" in that passage.
I have never seen anyone change it...ever.

I have seen many, not ever bother with what is said after "after".
They seem to think that a gathering in heaven, with Jesus not there, is, instead, Jesus coming to earth, and doing the gathering.

Amazing what can be transpose by the imagination

The only thing they got right was the word "after".

Amazing stuff.
 
Nobody changes the "after" in that passage.
I have never seen anyone change it...ever.

I have seen many, not ever bother with what is said after "after".
They seem to think that a gathering in heaven, with Jesus not there, is, instead, Jesus coming to earth, and doing the gathering.

Amazing what can be transpose by the imagination

The only thing they got right was the word "after".

Amazing stuff.
there's my point, good day.
 
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Tribulation isn’t some far-off future event but the everyday reality of living in a broken world. Jesus made it clear: “In the world you will have tribulation” (John 16:33), and Paul reminded the churches, “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22). Scripture shows these troubles will ramp up as the end approaches—wars, rumors of wars, nations clashing, famines, plagues, and earthquakes growing like labor pains (Matt 24:6–8), with fear gripping hearts as the heavens are shaken (Luke 21:26). Believers aren’t taken out of the world during these trials; Jesus says they’re kept safe through them (John 17:15), sealed and shielded from God’s wrath (Rev 7:3; 9:4), yet still on earth where the Beast fights against the saints (Rev 13:7). As conflict intensifies and creation groans under the strain (Rom 8:22), the faithful endure, even unto death, until Christ returns and gathers His people (Matt 24:29–31).

So, while we're sealed and shielded from the seal and bowl judgements, we just have to worry about being martyred by way of the Beast? Honestly, at this point, a nuke option sounds good. The quicker the better. LOL!
 
So, while we're sealed and shielded from the seal and bowl judgements, we just have to worry about being martyred by way of the Beast? Honestly, at this point, a nuke option sounds good. The quicker the better. LOL!
Yeah thats coming I have a feeling
 
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Here's something I find ironic about our conversation with Psalm1. When I chose to use A.I. to tell me based on all of the scriptures combined, which was the most likely to happen, it tells me that the Matthew 24 argument is used to support a POST tribulation rapture! LOL!

Here are the results below:

Based on the provided search context, there is no definitive scriptural consensus that assigns a higher probability to one view over the others, as all three positions are held by sincere believers and cite specific passages. However, post-tribulationism is argued by some to have the "strongest scriptural support" due to its alignment with the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:29-31, which explicitly places the event after the tribulation.

Pre-tribulationism is supported by arguments regarding the imminency of Christ’s return (no signs required) and promises of deliverance from wrath in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and Revelation 3:10. Mid-tribulationism posits the rapture occurs at the midpoint when God’s specific wrath begins, often citing the sixth seal in Revelation 6.

Ultimately, the texts indicate that the timing is a matter of interpretation rather than explicit, unambiguous proof, with key disagreements centering on whether the church is removed before judgment or preserved through it.

  • Post-trib: Points to Matthew 24:29-31 and the lack of a distinct "rapture" event separate from the Second Coming.
  • Pre-trib: Points to 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (no prerequisites) and Revelation 3:10 (kept from the hour of trial).
  • Mid-trib: Points to Revelation 11:15 and the midpoint of Daniel’s seventieth week.
Another way to say it, as far as mat 24, is, is the "before the flood coming the same as the After the trib coming earlier in the same chapter. ?

It can not be, but ALL POSTRIBS, claim, and believe, the one coming belief, and blend the 2 together.
They even combine rev 14:14 , which is a totally different gathering during thevtrib, is also the same "one coming".

So, see the many many errors??????

I really can not believe it.
 
Ok
....and.
What is your point.?
There was no "took" in the passage?

I am playing devil's advocate.
It is you guys centering on "took"
That is WHY you guys are insisting sodoms inhabitants were "taken" in your confused system.

So now you are diverting somewhere else.

You are absolutely hilarious! Look at verse 39 again. It absolutely used the word, "took". As in "and took them all away".
 
Another way to say it, as far as mat 24, is, is the "before the flood coming the same as the After the trib coming earlier in the same chapter. ?

It can not be, but ALL POSTRIBS, claim, and believe, the one coming belief, and blend the 2 together.
They even combine rev 14:14 , which is a totally different gathering during thevtrib, is also the same "one coming".

So, see the many many errors??????

I really can not believe it.
I can hear an Indian accent in the way you writes, you from India?
 
You are absolutely hilarious! Look at verse 39 again. It absolutely used the word, "took". As in "and took them all away".
I never said it didn't.
Don't forget I am going word for word and showing "took" in the Greek.
Yes it is there for sure
" took" is there for sure
 
Nope.
Jesus said normal life at his coming.
No AC
No nukes
No mark of the beast.
No recession.

Normal life, according to Jesus, at the rapture.
Look out the window, watch the news, what planet you on bro
 
I think part of the problem is that when I first watched the Left Behind series 47 years ago, it was showing this exact scene of people being plucked up for the sake of salvation and a pre-trib rapture. I've spent many hours and days searching the scriptures for whether there's going to be a pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rapture and while I think everyone can find scriptures to support all of them, I refuse to go there any more. What will be will be. I can't just assume that God's going to rescue me from a tribulation death when all of the Disciples were martyred except for John.

Daniel 12 mentions the increase of knowledge as times gets closer to the end and we certainly have the ability to compare scriptures easier today for all possibilities than we ever had before through technology, but some things just weren't meant to be revealed so easily.
A mass murder so huge nobody can count them.
That is during the trib.
So, no, the saints will all die.
That is the left behind ones.

Shudder.
 
I am sitting at a restaurant.
There is tTons of commerce and normal activities right out the window.
Do you believe Christ died for sins and was raised again and is King? Then good enough
He will sort out the rest. peace
 
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The irony isn’t that an AI “chose” post‑trib; the irony is that when you strip away charts, traditions, and assumptions, and you ask, “Which view has the clearest, explicit passage?” the answer is always the same: Matthew 24:29–31 is the only rapture‑timing text that gives an actual timestamp — after the tribulation.
Every other timing argument (pre‑trib or mid‑trib) depends on inference, system‑logic, or theological stitching.
Matthew 24 doesn’t.
Jesus gives a sequence: tribulation → cosmic signs → Son of Man appears → angels gather the elect.
That’s why even neutral analysis consistently says post‑trib has the “strongest scriptural support.”
It’s not because post‑trib is emotionally appealing; it’s because Jesus places the gathering after the tribulation in the only passage where He ever gives timing.

Pre‑trib arguments rely on imminency (which is not a timing text), wrath passages (which refer to God’s wrath, not the tribulation), and Revelation 3:10 (which promises protection, not removal).
Mid‑trib relies on Revelation’s seals and Daniel’s midpoint.
But none of these passages ever say, “the gathering happens before” or “the gathering happens at the midpoint.”
Only Matthew 24 gives a timestamp.

So the irony you’re seeing is actually clarity:
When the question is asked without a system, the text points to post‑trib.
When the question is asked within a system, the system points to pre‑trib.

And that’s exactly why our debate with Psalm1 keeps circling — he’s defending a system; we are defending a text.

The irony I was seeing was Psalm1 using post-trib related scripture to argue for a pre-trib rapture.
 
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Wow! Someone is personifying the abject panic of those who hope to be evacuated from the earth just prior to the Lord's glorious triumph at the end of the age. Tell us you do not trust the Lord to see you through the end times without writing you do not trust the Lord to see you through the end times.
Tell it to lot
God musta been wrong by removing him.

God must have got it wrong by removing the baby Jesus and taking him to Egypt, to,....cue drum roll....ESCAPE the wrath of Herod.
Don't that make you mad?
He could have just saved lot right in downtown Sodom.
He could have just saved the baby Jesus and not removed him.
Why, he could have saved Noah with no boat.
Why why why????
Why did God do it his way????

That bible sure messes with the human mind lol.
 
The irony I was seeing was Psalm1 using post-trib related scripture to argue for a pre-trib rapture.
I never have discounted the postrib return of Jesus.
It is a fact he returns postrib and mat 24 vividly describes it.
What is throwing everyone off is that i am reading it LIKE IT IS.

That is what is going on.

If i read it, and report it.
And all these guys oppose it.
I am making them go against the bible.