Is Knowledge of the Original Languages Necessary for KJV Believers?

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Bible_Highlighter said:
Jesus and His followers never shared today's post modernist view that God's words contained errors.
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The conclusion of the matter is simple.

If we must learn Hebrew/Greek in order to read the correct true Scriptures of God, then:

1. The God of heaven and earth, and resurrected from the dead, with His Spirit poured upon all flesh, is not able to lead believing faithful translators with accurate true translations of His words.

It's a matter of faith in God the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

2. Then every translation is erroneous. Which is disproven by any translation, that has no errancy found in it's own language. The KJ is one I know of.

It's a matter of study in our own language.

The burden of proof is with them that 'linguist professionals', that say original languages are necessary for true prophecy and doctrine of Christ.

But then, they would be joining the ranks of the infedels, that only seek fault in the Bible in any language...
 
Bible_Highlighter said:
Jesus and His followers never shared today's post modernist view that God's words contained errors.
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Most of your critics here probably don't believe that either.

As I'm sure you're aware, Jesus and His followers didn't deal with thousands of variant manuscripts and a thousand years of OT texts that had the Messiah carefully edited out.

Bible_Highlighter said:
Sure, there are corruptions of God's words out there. The corruptions only exist in your Modern Bibles and Critical Text.
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That is stubborn ignorance.
 
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This kind of reminds me of people that point out Greek and Hebrew use gematria, and then assume that English does not. They have great regard for Greek and Hebrew gematria and inordinately none for English. Well it's obvious that A is the first letter and Z is the 26th letter. No one can really be confused about that can they?

So do the math:

A=1 B=2 C=3 D=4 E=5 F=6 G=7 H=8 I=9 J=10 K=11 L=12 M=13 N=14 O=15 P=16 Q=17 R=18 S=19 T=20 U=21 V=22 W=23 X=24 Y=25 Z=26

English = 74 Gematria =74

Jesus = 74 Cross = 74 Preacher = 74 Gospel = 74 Forgave = 74
Messiah = 74 Menorah = 74 Jewish = 74

People asked me "What does 74 mean?"
Look at the equation: Jesus = 74

God is the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.
Look at the values:

G=7 O=15 D=4
7 and 4

In Hebrew gematria the tetragrammaton YHVH = 26
In English gematria God = 26

In Jesus name the vowels are E=5 and U=21, that = 26.
Now look at the consonants: J=20 S=19 S=19 = 48
Son = 48
Tree = 48
Blood = 48

Jesus, God's (Son), died on the cross, also called a (tree), and paid for our sins by His (blood).
It's all there in the numeric values of the letters in His name.

My point is that English is effectively used by the Holy Spirit as was the Hebrew and Greek before.

Flip the values:

A=26 B=25 C=24 D=23 E=22 F=21 G=20 H=19 I=18 J=17 K=16 L=15 M=14 N=13 O=12 P=11 Q=10 R=9 S=8 T=7 U=6 V=5 W=4 X=3 Y=2 Z=1

Jesus = 61 Cross = 61 Preacher = 142 Gospel = 88 Forgave = 115

What is this now? Different numbers, but the digital roots are all 7.
What you are looking at here is the Holy Spirit assigning the values of the words.
 
Jason343 said:
This kind of reminds me of people that point out Greek and Hebrew use gematria, and then assume that English does not. They have great regard for Greek and Hebrew gematria and inordinately none for English. Well it's obvious that A is the first letter and Z is the 26th letter. No one can really be confused about that can they?

So do the math:

A=1 B=2 C=3 D=4 E=5 F=6 G=7 H=8 I=9 J=10 K=11 L=12 M=13 N=14 O=15 P=16 Q=17 R=18 S=19 T=20 U=21 V=22 W=23 X=24 Y=25 Z=26

English = 74 Gematria =74

Jesus = 74 Cross = 74 Preacher = 74 Gospel = 74 Forgave = 74
Messiah = 74 Menorah = 74 Jewish = 74

People asked me "What does 74 mean?"
Look at the equation: Jesus = 74

God is the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.
Look at the values:

G=7 O=15 D=4
7 and 4

In Hebrew gematria the tetragrammaton YHVH = 26
In English gematria God = 26

In Jesus name the vowels are E=5 and U=21, that = 26.
Now look at the consonants: J=20 S=19 S=19 = 48
Son = 48
Tree = 48
Blood = 48

Jesus, God's (Son), died on the cross, also called a (tree), and paid for our sins by His (blood).
It's all there in the numeric values of the letters in His name.

My point is that English is effectively used by the Holy Spirit as was the Hebrew and Greek before.

Flip the values:

A=26 B=25 C=24 D=23 E=22 F=21 G=20 H=19 I=18 J=17 K=16 L=15 M=14 N=13 O=12 P=11 Q=10 R=9 S=8 T=7 U=6 V=5 W=4 X=3 Y=2 Z=1

Jesus = 61 Cross = 61 Preacher = 142 Gospel = 88 Forgave = 115

What is this now? Different numbers, but the digital roots are all 7.
What you are looking at here is the Holy Spirit assigning the values of the words.
Click to expand...
I should add, A=26 and Z=1 is used to get 777 on the first verse Genesis 1:1 KJV.
 
Jason343 said:
This kind of reminds me of people that point out Greek and Hebrew use gematria, and then assume that English does not. They have great regard for Greek and Hebrew gematria and inordinately none for English. Well it's obvious that A is the first letter and Z is the 26th letter. No one can really be confused about that can they?

So do the math:

A=1 B=2 C=3 D=4 E=5 F=6 G=7 H=8 I=9 J=10 K=11 L=12 M=13 N=14 O=15 P=16 Q=17 R=18 S=19 T=20 U=21 V=22 W=23 X=24 Y=25 Z=26

English = 74 Gematria =74

Jesus = 74 Cross = 74 Preacher = 74 Gospel = 74 Forgave = 74
Messiah = 74 Menorah = 74 Jewish = 74

People asked me "What does 74 mean?"
Look at the equation: Jesus = 74

God is the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.
Look at the values:

G=7 O=15 D=4
7 and 4

In Hebrew gematria the tetragrammaton YHVH = 26
In English gematria God = 26

In Jesus name the vowels are E=5 and U=21, that = 26.
Now look at the consonants: J=20 S=19 S=19 = 48
Son = 48
Tree = 48
Blood = 48

Jesus, God's (Son), died on the cross, also called a (tree), and paid for our sins by His (blood).
It's all there in the numeric values of the letters in His name.

My point is that English is effectively used by the Holy Spirit as was the Hebrew and Greek before.

Flip the values:

A=26 B=25 C=24 D=23 E=22 F=21 G=20 H=19 I=18 J=17 K=16 L=15 M=14 N=13 O=12 P=11 Q=10 R=9 S=8 T=7 U=6 V=5 W=4 X=3 Y=2 Z=1

Jesus = 61 Cross = 61 Preacher = 142 Gospel = 88 Forgave = 115

What is this now? Different numbers, but the digital roots are all 7.
What you are looking at here is the Holy Spirit assigning the values of the words.
Click to expand...
I wonder where in the Bible you get the idea that we have to assign a number to each letter in a word (whether in Hebrew, Greek or English)? You picked out certain words the numbers of whose letters all add up to the same total. But there are plenty of other words that add up to the same total. For example, u=you say that the letters of Son, Tree and Blood all add up to 48, but so do the letters of the word Evil. Where does all this leave people whose language is not English? In French, for example, "cross" is "croix", whose letters add up to 69, and "preacher" is "predicateur", whose letters add up to 121. But far more importantly, there is not a single hint in the Bible that we are intended to treat Bible words in any language in such a mathematical way.
 
ATG said:
The conclusion of the matter is simple.

If we must learn Hebrew/Greek in order to read the correct true Scriptures of God, then:

1. The God of heaven and earth, and resurrected from the dead, with His Spirit poured upon all flesh, is not able to lead believing faithful translators with accurate true translations of His words.

It's a matter of faith in God the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

2. Then every translation is erroneous. Which is disproven by any translation, that has no errancy found in it's own language. The KJ is one I know of.

It's a matter of study in our own language.

The burden of proof is with them that 'linguist professionals', that say original languages are necessary for true prophecy and doctrine of Christ.

But then, they would be joining the ranks of the infedels, that only seek fault in the Bible in any language...
Click to expand...
I may have agreed with you a few years back, but I have changed due to my study on this topic. The original languages using the older lexicons is the proper way to prevent any misunderstandings in the King James Bible. At bare minimum, a believer should do word studies in the Hebrew, and Greek.

Acts 14:12 is one of my prime examples. An English reader would not know that "Jupiter" in the KJV says, "Dia" (the accusative of Zeus) in the Greek. Granted, this is not an error. It is merely interpretatio Romana, which is the Roman practice of identifying foreign gods (like say Greek ones) with equivalent Roman deities.



....
 
Qt said:
The Gospel is clear in most translations but some text are in error
Translations are untrustworthy. The fact that that They disagree in a lot of places is proof of that.

And some are not translations in some text though they claim to be.

Are you a student of the Greek? If so, maybe you can see the error in the text below. Apparently @Bible_Highlighter has not.
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Galatians 2:16—εἰδότες δὲ ὅτι οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ—
with the disputed phrase πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ showing the genitive construction at the center of the translation debate.
Paul repeats it again in the same verse: καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν, ἵνα δικαιωθῶμεν ἐκ πίστεως Χριστοῦ.

The grammar is straightforward: pistis (faith/faithfulness) + genitive Christou (of Christ).
The interpretive question is whether this genitive is subjective (Christ’s own covenant faithfulness) or objective (our faith directed toward Christ).
The text itself does not say “faith in Christ”; that is an English interpretive insertion.
This is why the phrase is central to discussions of pistis Christou and why some call the traditional rendering a “translation error”—not because the English is illegitimate, but because it may obscure Paul’s emphasis on Christ’s faithfulness as the ground of justification.
 
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OMC said:
Galatians 2:16—εἰδότες δὲ ὅτι οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ—
with the disputed phrase πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ showing the genitive construction at the center of the translation debate.
Paul repeats it again in the same verse: καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν, ἵνα δικαιωθῶμεν ἐκ πίστεως Χριστοῦ.

The grammar is straightforward: pistis (faith/faithfulness) + genitive Christou (of Christ).
The interpretive question is whether this genitive is subjective (Christ’s own covenant faithfulness) or objective (our faith directed toward Christ).
The text itself does not say “faith in Christ”; that is an English interpretive insertion.
This is why the phrase is central to discussions of pistis Christou and why some call the traditional rendering a “translation error”—not because the English is illegitimate, but because it may obscure Paul’s emphasis on Christ’s faithfulness as the ground of justification.
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Nice, but what of ἐὰν μὴ
 
Bible_Highlighter said:
Nope. Galatians 2:16 is not in error.
Click to expand...

Yes it is. As a matter of fact most translations repeat the same error.
Bible_Highlighter said:
In fact, I just whipped up this short PDF writeup to help explain a common misunderstanding many today make.


Galatians 2:16: The Faith of Jesus Christ:
(Understanding “The Faith” as Revealed Christian Truth & Doctrine)



....
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If you have some thing for me to look at, type it out here please. I am not interested in reading anything unless you present it here. However I see where you are heading and The Genitive Case is not the issue.
 
Qt said:
Nice, but what of ἐὰν μὴ
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ἐὰν μὴ is a conditional particle meaning “except,” “unless,” “if not.”
In Galatians 2:16 it functions as a strong adversative exception: οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
“a person is not justified by works of the Law except through the faithfulness of Christ.”
The construction is syntactically simple but theologically loaded:
Paul is not saying justification comes by two possible routes (works vs. faith), but that works never justify, and the only exception to universal non‑justification is διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
The force of ἐὰν μὴ therefore heightens the pistis Christou debate: if the genitive is subjective, Paul’s statement becomes “no one is justified by works, except through Christ’s faithfulness,” which centers justification on Christ’s covenant fidelity; if objective, it becomes “no one is justified by works, except through faith in Christ,” which centers justification on human believing.
Either way, ἐὰν μὴ marks the exclusive gateway of justification, and its semantic weight supports the reading that Paul is contrasting human works with Christ‑mediated justification, not human works with human faith.
 
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OMC said:
Galatians 2:16—εἰδότες δὲ ὅτι οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ—
with the disputed phrase πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ showing the genitive construction at the center of the translation debate.
Paul repeats it again in the same verse: καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν, ἵνα δικαιωθῶμεν ἐκ πίστεως Χριστοῦ.

The grammar is straightforward: pistis (faith/faithfulness) + genitive Christou (of Christ).
The interpretive question is whether this genitive is subjective (Christ’s own covenant faithfulness) or objective (our faith directed toward Christ).
The text itself does not say “faith in Christ”; that is an English interpretive insertion.
This is why the phrase is central to discussions of pistis Christou and why some call the traditional rendering a “translation error”—not because the English is illegitimate, but because it may obscure Paul’s emphasis on Christ’s faithfulness as the ground of justification.
Click to expand...
I have had many battles over this very issue. I wish more folks would take time to learn the languages of scripture. So much to be gleaned in this way.
 
OMC said:
ἐὰν μὴ is a conditional particle meaning “except,” “unless,” “if not.”
In Galatians 2:16 it functions as a strong adversative exception: οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
“a person is not justified by works of the Law except through the faithfulness of Christ.”
The construction is syntactically simple but theologically loaded:
Paul is not saying justification comes by two possible routes (works vs. faith), but that works never justify, and the only exception to universal non‑justification is διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
The force of ἐὰν μὴ therefore heightens the pistis Christou debate: if the genitive is subjective, Paul’s statement becomes “no one is justified by works, except through Christ’s faithfulness,” which centers justification on Christ’s covenant fidelity; if objective, it becomes “no one is justified by works, except through faith in Christ,” which centers justification on human believing.
Either way, ἐὰν μὴ marks the exclusive gateway of justification, and its semantic weight supports the reading that Paul is contrasting human works with Christ‑mediated justification, not human works with human faith.
Click to expand...
The phrase literally means "if not". Except works and unless but they are translations.

The text reads, "But knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith of Jesus Christ."


In other words, works do not make anyone righteous if not through the faith of Christ.

Out of the 17 occurrences of this phrase it is only translated one time in the KJV as but. And that is here in Galatians. In every instance you can use the literally meaning of the word, "if Not" and retain the premise of the passage as translated in the KJV. But not in Gal2:16. By translating ἐὰν μὴ to but we lose the meaning of the phrase and it changes the understanding of the text for most. The words are not interchangeable in this instance. "But" does work a lot of times but not in Galatians 2:16.

Here are the other times the phrase is used.

John 7:51 Doth our law judge any man, before (if not) it hear him, and know what he doeth?

Mark 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except (if not) they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

Mark 7:4 And when they come from the market, except (if not) they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except (if not) God be with him.

John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except (if not) it be given him from heaven.

John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except (if not) I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except (if not) some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except (if not) ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Acts 27:31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except (if not) these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except (if not) they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

1Cor 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except (if not) I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

1Cor 14:9 So likewise ye, except (if not) ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

1Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except (if not) it die:

2Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except (if not) there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Tim 2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except (if not) he strive lawfully.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
 
Qt said:
The phrase literally means "if not". Except works and unless but they are translations.

The text reads, "But knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith of Jesus Christ."


In other words, works do not make anyone righteous if not through the faith of Christ.

Out of the 17 occurrences of this phrase it is only translated one time in the KJV as but. And that is here in Galatians. In every instance you can use the literally meaning of the word, "if Not" and retain the premise of the passage as translated in the KJV. But not in Gal2:16. By translating ἐὰν μὴ to but we lose the meaning of the phrase and it changes the understanding of the text for most. The words are not interchangeable in this instance. "But" does work a lot of times but not in Galatians 2:16.
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Your right that ἐὰν μὴ literally means “if not”, and that its force in Galatians 2:16 is sharper than the KJV’s “but”; but your conclusion is off because the particle’s semantic function, not its wooden gloss, determines its translation.

In Koine, ἐὰν μὴ regularly functions as an exceptive conditional — “if not = except” — and that is exactly how Paul uses it: οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ means “a person is not justified by works of the Law except through the faithfulness of Christ.” Your proposed reading — “works do not make anyone righteous if not through the faith of Christ” — is grammatically possible but theologically backwards, because it implies works could justify if Christ’s faithfulness were present.

Paul’s whole argument is that works never justify, and the only exception to universal non‑justification is Christ’s pistis.
The reason the KJV uses “but” here is not because “if not” fails, but because English requires an exceptive connector to preserve Paul’s logic. And the reason “if not” works in the other 16 occurrences is because those contexts are pure conditionals, not exclusive‑exception constructions.
In Gal 2:16, the exclusivity is the point: Paul is contrasting works with Christ‑mediated justification, not works with human faith.
The KJV’s “but” is stylistic, but the meaning is correct: ἐὰν μὴ marks the sole gateway of justification — Christ’s pistis — and the verse collapses if you treat it as a simple conditional rather than an exceptive.
 
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OMC said:
I have had many battles over this very issue. I wish more folks would take time to learn the languages of scripture. So much to be gleaned in this way.
Click to expand...
One does not need to learn, for not all have the capability. But all can be familiar and look things up.

So as we move forward with the same understanding of what you presented, how does the faith of Christ play into this. And should we also consider εἰς in the clause "εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν" in respect to Gal 2:20 and 3:27 if we are living by the faith of Christ having put on Christ. And what of John 3:16?

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in (εἰς into) Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
 
Qt said:
So as we move forward with the same understanding of what you presented, how does the faith of Christ play into this. And should we also consider εἰς in the clause "εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν" in respect to Gal 2:20 and 3:27 if we are living by the faith of Christ having put on Christ. And what of John 3:16?

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in (εἰς into) Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ
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Pistis Christou, ἐὰν μὴ, εἰς Χριστόν, Gal 2:20, Gal 3:27, and John 3:16 all converge on one apostolic reality — justification is grounded in Christ’s faithfulness, and experienced through our believing into Christ, because union with Christ makes His faithfulness the operative power of our life.
In Gal 2:16, ἐὰν μὴ (“if not = except”) marks Christ’s pistis as the exclusive gateway of justification; Paul then immediately says εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν — “we believed into Christ Jesus” — meaning our faith is not a parallel instrument but the union‑creating act by which Christ’s own covenant fidelity becomes ours.
That is why Gal 2:20 says “I live by the faith of the Son of God”: Paul’s life is animated by Christ’s pistis, not by the autonomous power of his own believing.
And Gal 3:27 explains the mechanism — being baptized into Christ means we have “put on Christ,” so His faithfulness is now the clothing of our identity.
John 3:16 fits perfectly: “whoever believes into Him” (εἰς αὐτόν) receives life because believing is the Spirit‑given act that unites the sinner to the Son whose pistis secures justification.
The synthesis is simple: Christ’s faithfulness is the ground; our believing‑into‑Christ is the means of union; union makes His pistis the life we live by.
 
OMC said:
The synthesis is simple: Christ’s faithfulness is the ground; our believing‑into‑Christ is the means of union; union makes His pistis the life we live by.
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Right and therein our works which are done through our union with Him are righteous, we are justified, rendered, shown to be righteous. Which we Can not be if it were not for the faith of Christ being lived out through us.

Here is Gal 2:16 with what we just discussed in mind, "But knowing that a person is not justified ( rendered, shown to be righteous) by the works of the law, if not by faith of Jesus Christ."

For the benefit of others here is Thayer's citation on justified:

Original: δικαιόω
- Transliteration: Dikaioo
- Phonetic: dik-ah-yo'-o
- Definition:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be


1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

I have to go to Church. Nice talking to you. If you respond I will God willing continue as time avails itself.
 
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Bible_Highlighter said:
The original languages using the older lexicons is the proper way to prevent any misunderstandings in the King James Bible.
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Once again. Understanding of words in the original language, or to correct errors necessary for understanding the gospel doctrine of salvation and justification with Christ?

The former is interesting, the latter is saying all translations are useless to salvation and justification. Everyone has to become a Hebrew/Greek linguist in order to know for certain the true preaching and gospel of Jesus Christ:

Act 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Everyone is warned to search the Scriptures for ourselves, and so everyone must search the Scriptures daily, in Hebrew/Greek, to be sure we are truly saved and justified, according to the Scriptures, and not according to erroneous translations.

1 Cor 15:2
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Luk 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

And so, we see that if we are not believing Jesus Christ Himself, according to the Scriptures read and learned for ourselves, then our own faith and justification with God can be in error.

Cultish chuches are built by believers not proving the preaching by the Scriptures, to see if it's jesus Christ being preached, and not another:

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The fact of false translations does not negate the sufficiency of hearing, reading, and doing the sayings of the Lord Jesus in our own tongue:

Luk 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Neither is Greek/Hebrew necessary to avoid the erroneous lies of certain translations, since we do have the original words of the Lord written in our own language. We can study the Bible without Hebrew/Greek to know the Scriptures are inerrant in themselves. And so, we can also know the fake translations by knowing the authentic in our language.

Bible_Highlighter said:
At bare minimum, a believer should do word studies in the Hebrew, and Greek.
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And so, if translations are not wholly sufficient for salvation and justification of God by faith in Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures, then 'at a bare minimum' we all must become students of Hebrew/Greek to ensure our salvation is of God, and not of man.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

No Scriptures say such a foolish thing. If someone wants a religion dependent on the original language, then let them be followers of the false prophet Moohamed in his own divine Arabic.



Bible_Highlighter said:
Acts 14:12 is one of my prime examples. An English reader would not know that "Jupiter" in the KJV says, "Dia" (the accusative of Zeus) in the Greek. Granted, this is not an error. It is merely interpretatio Romana, which is the Roman practice of identifying foreign gods (like say Greek ones) with equivalent Roman deities.



....
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And so, for sure, if we want to learn such historical accuracies, we can learn such historical language studies.

But, of course, such things are not necessary at all, for the only important purpose and reason of the Scriptures written on earth by Christ's prophets and apostles: Learning, believing, and doing the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures:

Mat 7:24
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Luk 8:21
And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

By faith toward the Almighty God of heaven and earth, we trust that He has preserved all His words written by the prophets and apostles, and likewise has supplied all nations with His own preserved words in our own language.

Rev 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and language, and people,

Preaching in our own language is entirely sufficient to hear, believe, and obey the everlasting gospel of God on earth.

Conclusion: If we want to learn about dative Jupiters, then by all means a 'bare minimum' of research is necessary. But preaching and teaching, that Hebrew/Greek is necessary to believe Jesus' words and do them, is a lie not found in Scriptures of truth. Such things can take away from the comfort of the Scriptures in our own language, in order to make ourselves become, at a bare minimum, students of the ancient scripts.

1Co 8:8
But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

Languages do not commend us to God, but only doing His words written in any language on earth. There is no language of man that is better or worse for hearing and doing the words and will of our Lord by faith, whether English, Russian, Greek, Spanish, Vietnamese, Hebrew, Swahili...
 
ATG said:
Once again. Understanding of words in the original language, or to correct errors necessary for understanding the gospel doctrine of salvation and justification with Christ?

The former is interesting, the latter is saying all translations are useless to salvation and justification. Everyone has to become a Hebrew/Greek linguist in order to know for certain the true preaching and gospel of Jesus Christ:

Act 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Everyone is warned to search the Scriptures for ourselves, and so everyone must search the Scriptures daily, in Hebrew/Greek, to be sure we are truly saved and justified, according to the Scriptures, and not according to erroneous translations.

1 Cor 15:2
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Luk 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

And so, we see that if we are not believing Jesus Christ Himself, according to the Scriptures read and learned for ourselves, then our own faith and justification with God can be in error.

Cultish chuches are built by believers not proving the preaching by the Scriptures, to see if it's jesus Christ being preached, and not another:

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The fact of false translations does not negate the sufficiency of hearing, reading, and doing the sayings of the Lord Jesus in our own tongue:

Luk 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Neither is Greek/Hebrew necessary to avoid the erroneous lies of certain translations, since we do have the original words of the Lord written in our own language. We can study the Bible without Hebrew/Greek to know the Scriptures are inerrant in themselves. And so, we can also know the fake translations by knowing the authentic in our language.


And so, if translations are not wholly sufficient for salvation and justification of God by faith in Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures, then 'at a bare minimum' we all must become students of Hebrew/Greek to ensure our salvation is of God, and not of man.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

No Scriptures say such a foolish thing. If someone wants a religion dependent on the original language, then let them be followers of the false prophet Moohamed in his own divine Arabic.




And so, for sure, if we want to learn such historical accuracies, we can learn such historical language studies.

But, of course, such things are not necessary at all, for the only important purpose and reason of the Scriptures written on earth by Christ's prophets and apostles: Learning, believing, and doing the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures:

Mat 7:24
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Luk 8:21
And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

By faith toward the Almighty God of heaven and earth, we trust that He has preserved all His words written by the prophets and apostles, and likewise has supplied all nations with His own preserved words in our own language.

Rev 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and language, and people,

Preaching in our own language is entirely sufficient to hear, believe, and obey the everlasting gospel of God on earth.

Conclusion: If we want to learn about dative Jupiters, then by all means a 'bare minimum' of research is necessary. But preaching and teaching, that Hebrew/Greek is necessary to believe Jesus' words and do them, is a lie not found in Scriptures of truth. Such things can take away from the comfort of the Scriptures in our own language, in order to make ourselves become, at a bare minimum, students of the ancient scripts.

1Co 8:8
But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

Languages do not commend us to God, but only doing His words written in any language on earth. There is no language of man that is better or worse for hearing and doing the words and will of our Lord by faith, whether English, Russian, Greek, Spanish, Vietnamese, Hebrew, Swahili...
Click to expand...
The danger is treating original‑language study as a requirement for knowing Christ, which collapses into the very thing Paul condemns: a gospel accessible only to specialists. Although I recommend word studies, I have never stated it was required.
Translations are fully capable of conveying the saving message of Christ. The apostles preached the gospel across languages, and Revelation 14:6 explicitly says the everlasting gospel reaches every nation, kindred, tongue, and people — not only those trained in ancient scripts.
 
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