Those alive raptured
Those in Christ and raised from the dead also caught up into the clouds
Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations
- Thread starter tttallison
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Those in Christ and raised from the dead also caught up into the clouds
Agreed. As 1 Thessalonians 4:17 says:
NKJV 1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
"Them" in that verse refers back to those Christians who had been raised from their graves, as mentioned in the previous verse.
That passage actually says JESUS SENDS.
HE does not go.
And the gathering is not earth, it is heaven.
Rev 19.
The gathering in heaven (mat 24) is angels gather saints in heaven to the white horses.
That event is after the trib.
For years people have not read what is there.
Imagine we are living at the end of the tribulation, Scripture’s sequence is stark and linear: the world is convulsing, the saints are hunted, and the man of sin operates without restraint, but the moment Christ appears everything changes at once — His revelation is not gradual but catastrophic, the dead in Christ rise in glorified bodies, the living believers are transformed, and both are gathered to Him in the air because the ground is about to become the site of judgment; Paul says the wicked are destroyed by “the brightness of His coming” (2 Thess 2:8), which is why the meeting happens above the earth, not on it. The old order collapses in a single hour, the corruption of the nations ends, and after the resurrection of the righteous comes the resurrection of the wicked (John 5:28–29), followed by the final judgment and the separation of the two groups. What follows is the new creation, not a return to a damaged planet, not a millennial repopulation of mortal survivors, and certainly not a literal Borg cube‑city confined to ethnic Israel; the New Jerusalem is temple imagery for God’s presence filling the renewed cosmos.
Scripture teaches that believers are already in tribulation (John 16:33), and that it intensifies until the final crisis when the saints are hunted and killed (Rev 13:7–10), but Christ returns before the faithful are extinguished (Matt 24:22). At His appearing, not before it, the gathering happens: the dead in Christ are raised, the living are transformed, and both meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess 4:16–17), while the wicked remain on the earth and are destroyed by the brightness of His coming (2 Thess 2:8). Only after the resurrection of the righteous comes the resurrection of the wicked (John 5:28–29), leading to the great white throne judgment (Rev 20:11–15). This is the biblical order: intensifying tribulation, the appearing of Christ, the resurrection and transformation of believers, the destruction of the wicked, and finally the judgment of all.
Normal as it would be in those days. We look around now and people say that's normal, in those days, the things that will be happening will be normal life as seen from human perspective of those living it. They will be carrying on as normal.
Matthew 24:27 is not a rapture; it is the visibility and universality of Christ’s Second Coming — “as the lightning comes from the east and shines to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.” Nothing in the verse describes saints being gathered, caught up, removed, or meeting Christ in the air.
Jesus is answering the disciples’ question about the sign of His coming (v. 3), not the mechanics of the gathering.
I was answering the question, "Is that a rapture in Matthew 24:27, or is there more than one rapture?" Which it's not and no there is not a second rapture.
Implementing a new rapture has changed doctrine, and your answer to my question was that there will be no gathering. Clearly in Matthew 24 there is a gathering.
Another question. After the resurrection, those that are left, will they be raptured also, or will they be just left to die?
Another question. Peter and Paul and all those Gentiles that were saved, will they be resurrected immediately before the rapture?
Implementing a new rapture has changed doctrine, and your answer to my question was that there will be no gathering. Clearly in Matthew 24 there is a gathering.
Brother, nothing changed: Matthew 24 does have a gathering, but it’s the post‑trib, end‑of‑age gathering of the resurrected elect (v. 31), not a separate pre‑trib rapture. Jesus describes the public appearing; Paul describes the same event from the saints’ side.
The resurrection happens first, then the living are transformed, and all are gathered into one company.
That’s the single, unified event taught in Matthew 24 and 1 Thessalonians 4.
Another question. After the resurrection, those that are left, will they be raptured also, or will they be just left to die?
No believer is left behind to die; Paul says the exact opposite. At Christ’s appearing, the dead in Christ rise first, and then the living in Christ are transformed — “we shall all be changed” (1 Cor 15:51–52). That transformation is the catching‑up Paul describes in 1 Thess 4:17. So after the resurrection, those still alive are not abandoned; they are immediately glorified and gathered into the same company as the resurrected saints. There is one event, one appearing, one resurrection, one transformation, one gathering — no believer is ever left outside the glory Christ brings to His people.
Another question. Peter and Paul and all those Gentiles that were saved, will they be resurrected immediately before the rapture?
Peter, Paul, and every Gentile believer are not resurrected “before” the rapture; their resurrection is part of the same single event.
Paul gives the order: “Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming” (1 Cor 15:23).
When Christ appears, the dead in Christ rise first — that includes Peter, Paul, every apostle, every Gentile believer — and then the living in Christ are transformed (1 Cor 15:51–52). Only after both groups are glorified are they caught up together (1 Thess 4:17).
There is no separate resurrection, no earlier phase, no pre‑rapture raising of apostles; the entire Church, dead and living, is glorified in one unified appearing‑resurrection‑gathering
Yes a gathering in heaven postrib.
Not the rapture.
The saints are gathered postrib in heaven, to the white horses.
See Rev 19
What Jesus is saying here is that following the destruction of Jerusalem, that by his angels or ministers, will gather together for himself an ecclesia - a called out body of believers from all nations under heaven.
Nope.
They are gathered postrib,in heaven, for the next event.
(The white horses in heaven...Rev 19)
the resurrection is post‑trib; Matthew 24 places the gathering after the tribulation (v. 29–31), and Paul says the resurrection happens at His coming (1 Cor 15:23), not before it