the dignity of Jesus.

OMC said:

you’re making the entire doctrine of Christ’s Davidic legitimacy depend on historical records Joseph supposedly possessed, but Scripture never makes that move; Matthew grounds Jesus’ legal claim in the genealogy God chose to preserve, not in Joseph’s personal archive, and Luke grounds it in the angel’s announcement, not in Joseph’s research. When you say “if the records aren’t there then everything Jesus did is untrue,” you’re reversing the biblical logic: the truth of God’s act establishes the legitimacy of the line, not Joseph’s ability to verify it. The Davidic line existed because God preserved it, not because Joseph studied it, and the NT never suggests Joseph had special insight into succession mechanics, throne vacancy, or his own lifespan. You’re treating your inference — “Joseph must have known his life would be shortened so the seat could be vacated” — as if it were revelation, but the text never says it, hints it, or leans toward it. The Spirit illumines what is written, not what we imagine must have been true to make the story work. The canonical picture is already complete: Jesus is David’s Son legally through Joseph, David’s Lord by nature, and the enthroned Son of Man by resurrection. Everything beyond that — Joseph’s records, Joseph’s expectations, Joseph’s supposed awareness — is speculation, not Scripture.

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But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

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The exact Bethlehem the city of David

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historical and legal fact of the highest order. When Joseph took Mary to Bethlehem to register in the Roman census, it wasn't just a random travel requirement—it was the moment Jesus’s name was officially entered into the public record as a true legal heir to King David's throne. [1]
Looking closely at the factual context of that event reveals why Bethlehem was the ultimate location for this legal stamp:
The Legal Reality of Roman Censuses
When Caesar Augustus issued the decree for the census (Luke 2:1), the primary goal of the Roman Empire was to record taxation, property ownership, and citizens' ancestral origins.

• Historical Greco-Roman papyri (such as the famous P. Lond. 3.904 text) confirm that the Romans occasionally ordered individuals to return to their ancestral homeplaces if they owned family lands or lineages there.
• Because Joseph was of the house and lineage of David, his family’s ancestral property roots were tied straight to Bethlehem—the "City of David".

. Registering the Legal Claim
By making that arduous journey, Joseph was presenting his family to the Roman registrars and the local Jewish tribal recorders. When Jesus was born during that trip, Joseph officially took custody of Him, gave Him His name, and recorded Him under his own household. [1]

• In the ancient world, being written down in the official town registry under a father's household was the absolute legal proof of identity and inheritance.
• Joseph effectively used the Roman Empire's own paperwork to establish a public paper trail proving that Jesus was legally a Son of David.
• Fulfilling the Prophets Perfectly

If Joseph had just stayed in Nazareth and never registered in Bethlehem, critics and skeptics could have argued that Jesus didn't meet the prophetic requirements. But by forcing Joseph to register his household in Bethlehem, God used a pagan emperor's decree to place Jesus in the exact physical location prophesied by Micah hundreds of years earlier (Micah 5:2
I was extreme saying Joseph stripped but it made you look if you read more other text post you will see that Joseph gave All he had to Give to God. Just like any father who wants a Son in his position. it's in the Bible you just got to know how it let the Holy Spirit guide. It's obviously hidden for a reason

frederickdoc said:

historical and legal fact of the highest order. When Joseph took Mary to Bethlehem to register in the Roman census, it wasn't just a random travel requirement—it was the moment Jesus’s name was officially entered into the public record as a true legal heir to King David's throne. [1]
Looking closely at the factual context of that event reveals why Bethlehem was the ultimate location for this legal stamp:
The Legal Reality of Roman Censuses
When Caesar Augustus issued the decree for the census (Luke 2:1), the primary goal of the Roman Empire was to record taxation, property ownership, and citizens' ancestral origins.

• Historical Greco-Roman papyri (such as the famous P. Lond. 3.904 text) confirm that the Romans occasionally ordered individuals to return to their ancestral homeplaces if they owned family lands or lineages there.
• Because Joseph was of the house and lineage of David, his family’s ancestral property roots were tied straight to Bethlehem—the "City of David".

. Registering the Legal Claim
By making that arduous journey, Joseph was presenting his family to the Roman registrars and the local Jewish tribal recorders. When Jesus was born during that trip, Joseph officially took custody of Him, gave Him His name, and recorded Him under his own household. [1]

• In the ancient world, being written down in the official town registry under a father's household was the absolute legal proof of identity and inheritance.
• Joseph effectively used the Roman Empire's own paperwork to establish a public paper trail proving that Jesus was legally a Son of David.
• Fulfilling the Prophets Perfectly

If Joseph had just stayed in Nazareth and never registered in Bethlehem, critics and skeptics could have argued that Jesus didn't meet the prophetic requirements. But by forcing Joseph to register his household in Bethlehem, God used a pagan emperor's decree to place Jesus in the exact physical location prophesied by Micah hundreds of years earlier (Micah 5:2
I was extreme saying Joseph stripped but it made you look if you read more other text post you will see that Joseph gave All he had to Give to God. Just like any father who wants a Son in his position. it's in the Bible you just got to know how it let the Holy Spirit guide. It's obviously hidden for a reason

Click to expand...

None of what you just wrote overturns the point — you’re piling historical color, Roman‑era census practices, and imaginative reconstruction on top of the text, then treating your reconstruction as if it were Scripture.
Bethlehem matters because Micah 5:2 prophesied it and because Joseph’s lineage was Davidic — that’s true.
But nothing you added about “Jesus’s name being officially entered into the public record,” “Roman registrars establishing legal heirship,” or “Joseph giving all he had so the seat could be vacated” is stated anywhere in Matthew, Luke, or any NT text.
You’re taking real historical background and then making a theological leap Scripture never makes: that Joseph consciously understood succession mechanics, that the census legally enthroned Jesus, and that Joseph knew his life would be shortened to vacate the Davidic seat. That is your inference, not the Bible’s teaching.

Luke’s point is simple: Joseph goes to Bethlehem because he is of David’s line, Mary is with child, Jesus is born in the prophesied city — period. Luke never says Jesus’s legal Davidic status depended on Roman paperwork; Matthew grounds it in the genealogy God preserved, not in Joseph’s registration. And the NT never hints that Joseph had secret insight into his lifespan, throne vacancy, or prophetic mechanics. When you say “it’s obviously hidden for a reason,” that’s the problem — you’re treating your intuition as revelation. The Holy Spirit illumines what is written, not what we imagine must be true behind the scenes.

seeking_christ said:

Whose Son Is the Messiah?
41Then Jesus said to them, “Why is it said that the Messiah is the son of David?42David himself declares in the Book of Psalms:
“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
43 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.” ’
44 David calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”


NOTES: ~ the faultfinding of opposers' insidious questions exposed their evil, subtlety, and meanness, which were the exact opposites of the Man-Savior's perfection, wisdom, and dignity. This vindicated Him in His human perfection with His divine splendor and muzzled them in their hateful plot and their Satan-instigated conspiracy. They were trying to find fault with the Man-Savior, but eventually they were subdued by Him, the perfect and blameless One.

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Man-Savior?

OMC said:

None of what you just wrote overturns the point — you’re piling historical color, Roman‑era census practices, and imaginative reconstruction on top of the text, then treating your reconstruction as if it were Scripture.
Bethlehem matters because Micah 5:2 prophesied it and because Joseph’s lineage was Davidic — that’s true.
But nothing you added about “Jesus’s name being officially entered into the public record,” “Roman registrars establishing legal heirship,” or “Joseph giving all he had so the seat could be vacated” is stated anywhere in Matthew, Luke, or any NT text.
You’re taking real historical background and then making a theological leap Scripture never makes: that Joseph consciously understood succession mechanics, that the census legally enthroned Jesus, and that Joseph knew his life would be shortened to vacate the Davidic seat. That is your inference, not the Bible’s teaching.

Luke’s point is simple: Joseph goes to Bethlehem because he is of David’s line, Mary is with child, Jesus is born in the prophesied city — period. Luke never says Jesus’s legal Davidic status depended on Roman paperwork; Matthew grounds it in the genealogy God preserved, not in Joseph’s registration. And the NT never hints that Joseph had secret insight into his lifespan, throne vacancy, or prophetic mechanics. When you say “it’s obviously hidden for a reason,” that’s the problem — you’re treating your intuition as revelation. The Holy Spirit illumines what is written, not what we imagine must be true behind the scenes.

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Only point is joseph jeld nothing back From The Lord God
I still don't know The point you strumed Up? The only reason why it's written by others because they Already know what HS trying to tell you .
its ok ! don't follow the Crowd! !
Jesus never called himself Son of David, yet. Thats for the ones That complely Missed the Messiah
just don't want to miss the Lord & God king and The Gift The King Brings.

OMC said:

None of what you just wrote overturns the point — you’re piling historical color, Roman‑era census practices, and imaginative reconstruction on top of the text, then treating your reconstruction as if it were Scripture.
Bethlehem matters because Micah 5:2 prophesied it and because Joseph’s lineage was Davidic — that’s true.
But nothing you added about “Jesus’s name being officially entered into the public record,” “Roman registrars establishing legal heirship,” or “Joseph giving all he had so the seat could be vacated” is stated anywhere in Matthew, Luke, or any NT text.
You’re taking real historical background and then making a theological leap Scripture never makes: that Joseph consciously understood succession mechanics, that the census legally enthroned Jesus, and that Joseph knew his life would be shortened to vacate the Davidic seat. That is your inference, not the Bible’s teaching.

Luke’s point is simple: Joseph goes to Bethlehem because he is of David’s line, Mary is with child, Jesus is born in the prophesied city — period. Luke never says Jesus’s legal Davidic status depended on Roman paperwork; Matthew grounds it in the genealogy God preserved, not in Joseph’s registration. And the NT never hints that Joseph had secret insight into his lifespan, throne vacancy, or prophetic mechanics. When you say “it’s obviously hidden for a reason,” that’s the problem — you’re treating your intuition as revelation. The Holy Spirit illumines what is written, not what we imagine must be true behind the scenes.

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Been nice you actually could hear !but this was where the point was going.
The devastating secret from the prophets: neither he nor any biological child of his could ever actually sit on that earthly throne.
The dynamic of what Joseph knew—and why the angel’s message changed everything—comes down to a powerful intersection of royal bloodlines, public records, and an ancient divine Curse:! Yes by the Word of God
As a devout man, Joseph knew he belonged to the house of David. When the angel appeared to him in Matthew 1:20 and addressed him directly as "Joseph, thou son of David," it was not news to him. It was a formal, divine recognition of his actual, legal status.

Joseph Knew the Throne Was Barred to His Bloodline
While Joseph held the legal right to the throne of David through the line of King Solomon, he also would have known about a major prophetic roadblock found in Jeremiah 22:30.
God had placed a severe bloodline curse on one of Joseph’s direct royal ancestors, King Jeconiah (Coniah), declaring:

"Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah." [1]

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Because Joseph was a biological descendant of Jeconiah, the throne was locked away from him and any natural son he would ever father. Joseph lived his life as a humble carpenter in Nazareth because, legally and prophetically, the royal earthly crown of his ancestors was dead in the water.
The Angel's Revelation Was a Masterpiece of Legal Logic
When the angel told Joseph that Mary was pregnant by the Holy Spirit, Joseph’s understanding of his royal lineage instantly shifted. The Holy Spirit bypassed the bloodline curse of Jeconiah because Jesus was not formed from Joseph's physical "seed".
By adopting Jesus and legally naming Him, Joseph did something extraordinary:

• Through Mary, Jesus received the pure, curse-free physical blood of King David (via David's other son, Nathan).
• Through Joseph’s adoption, Jesus received the formal, public, legal title and right to the throne of David.

Joseph knew exactly who he was in the grand line of kings. When the angel spoke, Joseph realized his purpose wasn't to wear a physical crown himself, but to act as the legal bridge—sacrificing his own reputation and quiet life so the true, eternal King could finally claim the throne.
I'm already expecting you to be negative but you can't deny God outsmarted all of them call me a liar calling him a liar there's the proof in front of you read it this is the kind of stuff that we are looking for from the word of God not a twitch here and there
This brings us to the Sprout not get out of your religion acts and let's know somethings

frederickdoc said:

Been nice you actually could hear !but this was where the point was going.
The devastating secret from the prophets: neither he nor any biological child of his could ever actually sit on that earthly throne.
The dynamic of what Joseph knew—and why the angel’s message changed everything—comes down to a powerful intersection of royal bloodlines, public records, and an ancient divine Curse:! Yes by the Word of God
As a devout man, Joseph knew he belonged to the house of David. When the angel appeared to him in Matthew 1:20 and addressed him directly as "Joseph, thou son of David," it was not news to him. It was a formal, divine recognition of his actual, legal status.

Joseph Knew the Throne Was Barred to His Bloodline
While Joseph held the legal right to the throne of David through the line of King Solomon, he also would have known about a major prophetic roadblock found in Jeremiah 22:30.
God had placed a severe bloodline curse on one of Joseph’s direct royal ancestors, King Jeconiah (Coniah), declaring:


Because Joseph was a biological descendant of Jeconiah, the throne was locked away from him and any natural son he would ever father. Joseph lived his life as a humble carpenter in Nazareth because, legally and prophetically, the royal earthly crown of his ancestors was dead in the water.
The Angel's Revelation Was a Masterpiece of Legal Logic
When the angel told Joseph that Mary was pregnant by the Holy Spirit, Joseph’s understanding of his royal lineage instantly shifted. The Holy Spirit bypassed the bloodline curse of Jeconiah because Jesus was not formed from Joseph's physical "seed".
By adopting Jesus and legally naming Him, Joseph did something extraordinary:

• Through Mary, Jesus received the pure, curse-free physical blood of King David (via David's other son, Nathan).
• Through Joseph’s adoption, Jesus received the formal, public, legal title and right to the throne of David.

Joseph knew exactly who he was in the grand line of kings. When the angel spoke, Joseph realized his purpose wasn't to wear a physical crown himself, but to act as the legal bridge—sacrificing his own reputation and quiet life so the true, eternal King could finally claim the throne.
I'm already expecting you to be negative but you can't deny God outsmarted all of them call me a liar calling him a liar there's the proof in front of you read it this is the kind of stuff that we are looking for from the word of God not a twitch here and there
This brings us to the Sprout not get out of your religion acts and let's know somethings

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So you agree that Joseph was not an actual king, and that the throne had been taken from the descendants of David since the time of Jeconiah. In that case, why do you keep saying that Joseph had to die early to vacate the throne so that Jesus could take iit?

frederickdoc said:

Been nice you actually could hear !but this was where the point was going.
The devastating secret from the prophets: neither he nor any biological child of his could ever actually sit on that earthly throne.
The dynamic of what Joseph knew—and why the angel’s message changed everything—comes down to a powerful intersection of royal bloodlines, public records, and an ancient divine Curse:! Yes by the Word of God
As a devout man, Joseph knew he belonged to the house of David. When the angel appeared to him in Matthew 1:20 and addressed him directly as "Joseph, thou son of David," it was not news to him. It was a formal, divine recognition of his actual, legal status.

Joseph Knew the Throne Was Barred to His Bloodline
While Joseph held the legal right to the throne of David through the line of King Solomon, he also would have known about a major prophetic roadblock found in Jeremiah 22:30.
God had placed a severe bloodline curse on one of Joseph’s direct royal ancestors, King Jeconiah (Coniah), declaring:


Because Joseph was a biological descendant of Jeconiah, the throne was locked away from him and any natural son he would ever father. Joseph lived his life as a humble carpenter in Nazareth because, legally and prophetically, the royal earthly crown of his ancestors was dead in the water.
The Angel's Revelation Was a Masterpiece of Legal Logic
When the angel told Joseph that Mary was pregnant by the Holy Spirit, Joseph’s understanding of his royal lineage instantly shifted. The Holy Spirit bypassed the bloodline curse of Jeconiah because Jesus was not formed from Joseph's physical "seed".
By adopting Jesus and legally naming Him, Joseph did something extraordinary:

• Through Mary, Jesus received the pure, curse-free physical blood of King David (via David's other son, Nathan).
• Through Joseph’s adoption, Jesus received the formal, public, legal title and right to the throne of David.

Joseph knew exactly who he was in the grand line of kings. When the angel spoke, Joseph realized his purpose wasn't to wear a physical crown himself, but to act as the legal bridge—sacrificing his own reputation and quiet life so the true, eternal King could finally claim the throne.
I'm already expecting you to be negative but you can't deny God outsmarted all of them call me a liar calling him a liar there's the proof in front of you read it this is the kind of stuff that we are looking for from the word of God not a twitch here and there
This brings us to the Sprout not get out of your religion acts and let's know somethings

Click to expand...

Your entire construction about Joseph “knowing the curse,” “knowing he could never sit on the throne,” “knowing Jesus bypassed the curse,” and “knowing his role as legal bridge” is devotional imagination, not biblical exegesis; Jeremiah’s Jeconiah curse is real, but Scripture itself shows the curse lifted in Haggai 2:23 when God calls Zerubbabel — Jeconiah’s grandson — His signet ring, the very symbol reversed from Jeremiah 22:24, which means your entire “Joseph knew he was barred forever” premise collapses under the weight of the canon itself. The NT never says Joseph pondered royal eligibility, never says he interpreted the angel’s greeting as a dynastic signal, never says he understood adoption mechanics, and never says he connected Mary’s Davidic line through Nathan with his own Solomonic line; those are theological inferences you’re treating as revealed facts. The angel’s message in Matthew 1 is about the child’s origin and mission, not Joseph’s royal calculus; Joseph obeys because he is righteous, not because he solved a genealogical puzzle. God did not “outsmart the curse” — He removed it, and the legal Davidic claim of Jesus rests on Joseph’s line because God sovereignly preserved it, not because Joseph privately decoded a prophetic riddle.

DavidLamb said:

So you agree that Joseph was not an actual king, and that the throne had been taken from the descendants of David since the time of Jeconiah. In that case, why do you keep saying that Joseph had to die early to vacate the throne so that Jesus could take iit?

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First off there's the curse God bypassed that just by Joseph documenting Jesus as his son . Now the curse is removed. Joseph was Heir to a throne God spoke the curse to the thing is he was first in line to David throne by blood line he was not a king but carried what God needed for Jesus to fulfill all the laws of the prophets. But yet for Jesus to be first by Blood Joseph would have to be dead. It's it's not rocket science .in the way you word it to me is not how I actually say it that's how you interpret what I say I don't agree to nothing cuz you add stuff . I'm not trying to get anybody to agree I'm just saying look in the scriptures cuz the answers are there . You can see the angel called Joseph son of David so obviously Joseph knows who he is ! Also Joseph knew about the curse I knew he would never sit on the throne of David even though his bloodline is first that's where God swooped in and changed everything and I'm just pointing it out for you to find on your own or anybody not looking for a credit just pointing you guys are smarter than me figure it out just don't overthink it sticking to one thing you're not seeing the other things that are opening your eyes to the main thing all scripture is good but it all works together as a whole. Just the one scripture about the curse will tell you about anything about that King's throne mainly the king anointing got taken away that's the way to see it. But you find it on your own I don't understand how people don't know what the Lord Jesus they know scripture to argue points but they're dead inside I see no Holy Spirit much here at all to people that's just something to me it seems frowned on. And that's what it's all about without that seed you'll never rise and incorruptible

frederickdoc said:

First off there's the curse God bypassed that just by Joseph documenting Jesus as his son . Now the curse is removed. Joseph was Heir to a throne God spoke the curse to the thing is he was first in line to David throne by blood line he was not a king but carried what God needed for Jesus to fulfill all the laws of the prophets. But yet for Jesus to be first by Blood Joseph would have to be dead. It's it's not rocket science .in the way you word it to me is not how I actually say it that's how you interpret what I say I don't agree to nothing cuz you add stuff . I'm not trying to get anybody to agree I'm just saying look in the scriptures cuz the answers are there . You can see the angel called Joseph son of David so obviously Joseph knows who he is ! Also Joseph knew about the curse I knew he would never sit on the throne of David even though his bloodline is first that's where God swooped in and changed everything and I'm just pointing it out for you to find on your own or anybody not looking for a credit just pointing you guys are smarter than me figure it out just don't overthink it sticking to one thing you're not seeing the other things that are opening your eyes to the main thing all scripture is good but it all works together as a whole. Just the one scripture about the curse will tell you about anything about that King's throne mainly the king anointing got taken away that's the way to see it. But you find it on your own I don't understand how people don't know what the Lord Jesus they know scripture to argue points but they're dead inside I see no Holy Spirit much here at all to people that's just something to me it seems frowned on. And that's what it's all about without that seed you'll never rise and incorruptible

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You’re right that Joseph knew he was son of David — Matthew calls him that deliberately — but everything you’re building on top of that (Joseph knowing the curse, Joseph knowing he’d never sit on the throne, Joseph knowing Jesus bypassed it, Joseph knowing he had to die for Jesus to be “first by blood”) is your theological imagination, not the biblical record.

frederickdoc said:

First off there's the curse God bypassed that just by Joseph documenting Jesus as his son . Now the curse is removed. Joseph was Heir to a throne God spoke the curse to the thing is he was first in line to David throne by blood line he was not a king but carried what God needed for Jesus to fulfill all the laws of the prophets. But yet for Jesus to be first by Blood Joseph would have to be dead. It's it's not rocket science .in the way you word it to me is not how I actually say it that's how you interpret what I say I don't agree to nothing cuz you add stuff . I'm not trying to get anybody to agree I'm just saying look in the scriptures cuz the answers are there . You can see the angel called Joseph son of David so obviously Joseph knows who he is ! Also Joseph knew about the curse I knew he would never sit on the throne of David even though his bloodline is first that's where God swooped in and changed everything and I'm just pointing it out for you to find on your own or anybody not looking for a credit just pointing you guys are smarter than me figure it out just don't overthink it sticking to one thing you're not seeing the other things that are opening your eyes to the main thing all scripture is good but it all works together as a whole. Just the one scripture about the curse will tell you about anything about that King's throne mainly the king anointing got taken away that's the way to see it. But you find it on your own I don't understand how people don't know what the Lord Jesus they know scripture to argue points but they're dead inside I see no Holy Spirit much here at all to people that's just something to me it seems frowned on. And that's what it's all about without that seed you'll never rise and incorruptible

Click to expand...

Joseph would not have to be dead. The Scriptures are clear. The angel Gabriel told Mary that God the Father would give to the Son Mary was to bear the throne of His father David. Joseph was not a king. There is no mention of "the throne of Joseph". Joseph did not rule on a throne, or anywhere else. Not the slightest hint given to Mary that her beloved Joseph would have to die in order for God the Father to give the throne to His Son.

DavidLamb said:

Joseph would not have to be dead. The Scriptures are clear. The angel Gabriel told Mary that God the Father would give to the Son Mary was to bear the throne of His father David. Joseph was not a king. There is no mention of "the throne of Joseph". Joseph did not rule on a throne, or anywhere else. Not the slightest hint given to Mary that her beloved Joseph would have to die in order for God the Father to give the throne to His Son.

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I wonder what version of bible he is reading? Ive never heard anyone say these things before and I thought i've heard it all.

OMC said:

Your entire construction about Joseph “knowing the curse,” “knowing he could never sit on the throne,” “knowing Jesus bypassed the curse,” and “knowing his role as legal bridge” is devotional imagination, not biblical exegesis; Jeremiah’s Jeconiah curse is real, but Scripture itself shows the curse lifted in Haggai 2:23 when God calls Zerubbabel — Jeconiah’s grandson — His signet ring, the very symbol reversed from Jeremiah 22:24, which means your entire “Joseph knew he was barred forever” premise collapses under the weight of the canon itself. The NT never says Joseph pondered royal eligibility, never says he interpreted the angel’s greeting as a dynastic signal, never says he understood adoption mechanics, and never says he connected Mary’s Davidic line through Nathan with his own Solomonic line; those are theological inferences you’re treating as revealed facts. The angel’s message in Matthew 1 is about the child’s origin and mission, not Joseph’s royal calculus; Joseph obeys because he is righteous, not because he solved a genealogical puzzle. God did not “outsmart the curse” — He removed it, and the legal Davidic claim of Jesus rests on Joseph’s line because God sovereignly preserved it, not because Joseph privately decoded a prophetic riddle.

Click to expand...

Where do you get all these riddles and stuff why you add stuff I did not say codes and riddles What are you talking about well if you don't like God's plan and how he already did it take with him teach what you want but don't try to teach me I don't need religious crap we would all say dung that's the people who got outsmarted by God. The the ones that know the scriptures didn't know nothing as you can see throughout the whole Bible and and nothing has changed under the Sun since then.
i do see God covered all the angles its in how we can see it as a curse or no curse .Jesus had full authority that all that matters and When the King returns He will say it to all, Who he is ,Son of man of The David . Im into The Authority
,not much on all the kings history

• As to point out that even though Zerubbabel was called a "signet ring," he was only ever a governor under the Persian Empire—he never actually wore a crown or sat on an independent throne as a king.
• They try to use Matthew’s inclusion of Jeconiah in Jesus's family tree as a "gotcha" to argue that Jesus is disqualified from being the Messiah.

---

This brings us right back to point: without being filled with the Holy Spirit, people get stuck in legalistic arguments. They miss the grand, masterfully woven tapestry of Scripture where God uses both a legal adoption, a physical bloodline, and a prophetic reversal to ensure His Son had a totally airtight claim to the throne. Again Authority judgment is

frederickdoc said:

Where do you get all these riddles and stuff why you add stuff I did not say codes and riddles What are you talking about well if you don't like God's plan and how he already did it take with him teach what you want but don't try to teach me I don't need religious crap we would all say dung that's the people who got outsmarted by God. The the ones that know the scriptures didn't know nothing as you can see throughout the whole Bible and and nothing has changed under the Sun since then.
i do see God covered all the angles its in how we can see it as a curse or no curse .Jesus had full authority that all that matters and When the King returns He will say it to all, Who he is ,Son of man of The David . Im into The Authority
,not much on all the kings history

• As to point out that even though Zerubbabel was called a "signet ring," he was only ever a governor under the Persian Empire—he never actually wore a crown or sat on an independent throne as a king.
• They try to use Matthew’s inclusion of Jeconiah in Jesus's family tree as a "gotcha" to argue that Jesus is disqualified from being the Messiah.

---

This brings us right back to point: without being filled with the Holy Spirit, people get stuck in legalistic arguments. They miss the grand, masterfully woven tapestry of Scripture where God uses both a legal adoption, a physical bloodline, and a prophetic reversal to ensure His Son had a totally airtight claim to the throne. Again Authority judgment is

Click to expand...

Brother, I’m not accusing you of talking about “riddles” — I’m saying your interpretation treats Joseph as if he were solving riddles Scripture never gives him: knowing the Jeconiah curse applied to him personally, knowing he could never sit on David’s throne, knowing Jesus bypassed the curse through adoption, knowing his own death was required for Jesus to be “first by blood,” knowing he was the legal bridge God needed. None of that is in Matthew, Luke, Jeremiah, or Haggai. And your point about Zerubbabel “only being a governor” doesn’t undo the fact that God explicitly reversed the Jeconiah curse in Haggai 2:23 by calling Zerubbabel His signet ring — the exact symbol Jeremiah said was stripped. That means the curse was lifted, not bypassed. So Jesus isn’t inheriting a cursed line; He’s inheriting a restored one. And yes — Jesus has full authority, and when He returns He will declare Himself Son of David and Son of Man. But authority doesn’t erase the textual point: God Himself repaired the line, not Joseph’s awareness, not Joseph’s paperwork, not Joseph’s death. The “legalistic arguments” you’re frustrated with come from people treating the curse as still active; the canon says it’s not. God didn’t outsmart anyone — He overturned the curse and preserved both the legal line (Joseph) and the blood line (Mary) so the Messiah’s claim is airtight

OMC said:

Brother, I’m not accusing you of talking about “riddles” — I’m saying your interpretation treats Joseph as if he were solving riddles Scripture never gives him: knowing the Jeconiah curse applied to him personally, knowing he could never sit on David’s throne, knowing Jesus bypassed the curse through adoption, knowing his own death was required for Jesus to be “first by blood,” knowing he was the legal bridge God needed. None of that is in Matthew, Luke, Jeremiah, or Haggai. And your point about Zerubbabel “only being a governor” doesn’t undo the fact that God explicitly reversed the Jeconiah curse in Haggai 2:23 by calling Zerubbabel His signet ring — the exact symbol Jeremiah said was stripped. That means the curse was lifted, not bypassed. So Jesus isn’t inheriting a cursed line; He’s inheriting a restored one. And yes — Jesus has full authority, and when He returns He will declare Himself Son of David and Son of Man. But authority doesn’t erase the textual point: God Himself repaired the line, not Joseph’s awareness, not Joseph’s paperwork, not Joseph’s death. The “legalistic arguments” you’re frustrated with come from people treating the curse as still active; the canon says it’s not. God didn’t outsmart anyone — He overturned the curse and preserved both the legal line (Joseph) and the blood line (Mary) so the Messiah’s claim is airtight

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Jesus will the declare himself with all authority with No cloud claims. All that matters scripture fullfilled .It will be eternal Seat of David as spoken.the curse maybe reversed but not a man king seated of that line till jesus announces it at his return. But it's not because of the curse It's because joseph blood line and no One can say legally jesus is not Joseph son .you can read jesus Lord God will Honor the David blood line as written.and thats only work of the Flesh now we have The Holy Spirit Quickened that is also The main branch a whole different King and kingdom they we read in Text
By the way I am not frustrated but I like getting things out in the open I like that you brought up curse reverse but the consequences were never reversed it would have been different if there was a seated king but as you know Rome had their puppets in place. It's all just man history I'm just thankful for the future but I'm thankful for everything the Lord did even if we don't understand it all . More to behold but it's transition as Eternal as Spoken in all authority

The Throne Shifted from Earthly to Heavenly
After the exile, God deliberately left the physical, earthly throne of David empty because He was finished with temporary, corruptible man kings. When the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary in Luke 1:32-33, he revealed exactly where the throne had been moved:

"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

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Jesus did not come to sit on a physical piece of wood and gold in a palace in Jerusalem—a throne that could be burned down by the Romans or Babylonians. Instead, after His resurrection, He ascended to the true, ultimate Heavenly Throne at the right hand of God, where He is ruling right now.
The Final Reversal and the King's Return
While Jesus currently rules from a heavenly throne, Scripture promises that the reversal will culminate in a physical reality. In the future, when Jesus returns, He will establish His visible kingdom on earth. As Zechariah 14:9 says:

"And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one."

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The throne remains empty of ordinary men today because it is being legally reserved for only One Person. Joseph knew his lineage, and he knew he wouldn't see an earthly crown in his lifetime. He quietly did his job to protect and register the true King, knowing that Jesus would ultimately claim the title and rule an eternal kingdom that no earthly empire could ever destroy.

the heart of God’s absolute holiness and the perfection of His word.
The reason there was no earthly king after the curse was removed in Haggai 2:23 is exactly what you deduced: God had to keep His original word true, while simultaneously opening a path for mercy.
In the Bible, when God speaks a decree, it cannot simply be wiped away as if it never happened. God’s justice and His mercy had to meet perfectly. Here is how that played out between the curse, the reversal, and the empty throne:

1. The Original Curse Had to Stand Firm
In the original curse in Jeremiah 22:30, God did not just say "Jeconiah's line is cursed forever." He laid down a very specific legal parameter:

"...for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah."

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For God’s word to remain 100% true, no physical, biological descendant of Jeconiah could ever sit on a physical throne in the land of Judah again. If Zerubbabel or any of his sons had put on a physical crown and ruled from a palace in Jerusalem, it would have broken the original decree in Jeremiah. So, to keep His word true, God ensured that the earthly, political throne in Judah stayed completely leveled and empty.

The Reversal Restored the "Right to the Line," Not an Earthly Crown
When God reversed the curse under Zerubbabel in Haggai 2:23 ("I will make thee as a signet"), He wasn't restoring a physical, political kingdom. He was restoring the legal messianic line.
He was essentially saying: "The bloodline is no longer disqualified from carrying the lineage of the Messiah, but the earthly throne in Jerusalem is finished." The royal line was preserved in quiet, public registries, but it was forced to remain hidden and humble.
The Perfect Loophole: A Heavenly Throne
This is why the empty throne is the ultimate proof of God's genius. By keeping the earthly throne empty, God perfectly fulfilled the original curse. But by keeping the legal lineage alive through Joseph, He prepared the way for Jesus.
Because Jesus was born of a virgin:

• He was not of the physical seed of Jeconiah, so He did not break the curse of Jeremiah 22:30.
• Yet, through Joseph's legal adoption, He inherited the right to the Throne of David

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Just showing is not just about men kingdom its All Jesus has Full lawfull Authority and Judgement of All Heaven and earth see how we look here but forget its much bigger

OMC said:

Brother, I’m not accusing you of talking about “riddles” — I’m saying your interpretation treats Joseph as if he were solving riddles Scripture never gives him: knowing the Jeconiah curse applied to him personally, knowing he could never sit on David’s throne, knowing Jesus bypassed the curse through adoption, knowing his own death was required for Jesus to be “first by blood,” knowing he was the legal bridge God needed. None of that is in Matthew, Luke, Jeremiah, or Haggai. And your point about Zerubbabel “only being a governor” doesn’t undo the fact that God explicitly reversed the Jeconiah curse in Haggai 2:23 by calling Zerubbabel His signet ring — the exact symbol Jeremiah said was stripped. That means the curse was lifted, not bypassed. So Jesus isn’t inheriting a cursed line; He’s inheriting a restored one. And yes — Jesus has full authority, and when He returns He will declare Himself Son of David and Son of Man. But authority doesn’t erase the textual point: God Himself repaired the line, not Joseph’s awareness, not Joseph’s paperwork, not Joseph’s death. The “legalistic arguments” you’re frustrated with come from people treating the curse as still active; the canon says it’s not. God didn’t outsmart anyone — He overturned the curse and preserved both the legal line (Joseph) and the blood line (Mary) so the Messiah’s claim is airtight

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I'm sure Joseph knew exactly who he was, if you don't know that then you don't know who youself should be ?

DavidLamb said:

Joseph would not have to be dead. The Scriptures are clear. The angel Gabriel told Mary that God the Father would give to the Son Mary was to bear the throne of His father David. Joseph was not a king. There is no mention of "the throne of Joseph". Joseph did not rule on a throne, or anywhere else. Not the slightest hint given to Mary that her beloved Joseph would have to die in order for God the Father to give the throne to His Son.

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Well if joseph was alive when jesus was crucified honestly the seed would died again. What so hard to know that?. It's like any Father's son normally the father passes it on to the Son whatever it is after their departure. When the son died before the father that changes to another son or if Baron whatever the rule is then. And trust these people knew linage better than we ever know! Plus The word of God to their point and too the prophecies of promise

frederickdoc said:

Well if joseph was alive when jesus was crucified honestly the seed would died again. What so hard to know that?. It's like any Father's son normally the father passes it on to the Son whatever it is after their departure. When the son died before the father that changes to another son or if Baron whatever the rule is then. And trust these people knew linage better than we ever know! Plus The word of God to their point and too the prophecies of promise

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Why would the seed have died? i am sure Joseph wasn't the only male descendant of David.

seeking_christ said:

Whose Son Is the Messiah?
41Then Jesus said to them, “Why is it said that the Messiah is the son of David?42David himself declares in the Book of Psalms:
“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
43 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.” ’
44 David calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”


NOTES: ~ the faultfinding of opposers' insidious questions exposed their evil, subtlety, and meanness, which were the exact opposites of the Man-Savior's perfection, wisdom, and dignity. This vindicated Him in His human perfection with His divine splendor and muzzled them in their hateful plot and their Satan-instigated conspiracy. They were trying to find fault with the Man-Savior, but eventually they were subdued by Him, the perfect and blameless One.

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The point of Jesus’ riddle is that Jesus was a descendant/son of David, so why does "the forefather call the descendant “Lord”? Traditionally, the forefather is the elder and the Lord of the younger descendant. However, Jesus appears twice in his own genealogy.
Jesus the son of Joseph…. the son of David… the son of Adam, the son of God. As the progenitor of Adam, Jesus was David’s father, and so Jesus was divinely speaking David’s Lord. As a descendant of David, Jesus was David’s son, and so David was humanly speaking Jesus' lord.

DavidLamb said:

Why would the seed have died? i am sure Joseph wasn't the only male descendant of David.

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God chose him BTW . Talking About Joseph as Father and jesus the son. da, Nothing passes onto jesus hello!

did you know as jesus dieing ,he is gave charge to John ? It would be unlawfull for jesus to be the head of the famiy, if Joseph was Alive.

DavidLamb said:

Joseph would not have to be dead. The Scriptures are clear. The angel Gabriel told Mary that God the Father would give to the Son Mary was to bear the throne of His father David. Joseph was not a king. There is no mention of "the throne of Joseph". Joseph did not rule on a throne, or anywhere else. Not the slightest hint given to Mary that her beloved Joseph would have to die in order for God the Father to give the throne to His Son.

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Well i cant keep up with all your twisting Around
You do know its two kingsims to be one and david nane is attach for eternity .that why the two lines are docmented! One is the Royal line and the others the biological in the main one is God himself Holy Spirit . Jesus giving charge to john while Jesus was dying signifies that he was the head of the house by their laws in ways for Jesus to speak out not a head this is unlawful in their laws . The same Joseph giving Jesus his name and circumcision this is all documented and it was in the books for anyone to see in the gospel writers had access to them before they were burnt down and destroyed by the Romans that's why you got the name so properly lined up in the gospel and this is how you know Jesus is the legal son of Joseph that's only one part of it don't forget it all gets messed together when Jesus returns you'll know it all