Rage and Anger.

seoulsearch said:

Hi Jacob,
If you were giving that test to me, I would pass, because in my heart, I don't feel it's "just" testing me -- it's also testing God -- and basically asking Him to perform the shell game, and asking which cup the shell is hiding under.

God is more concerned with being God than proving to everyone who asks that people hear from Him.

Now of course, whether or what God would answer Karlon with the correct name is up to Him.

I understand exactly what you're saying though. I wrote a thread a while back in Family asking if people claiming to be modern-day prophets would still be so quick to "prophesy" if the Old Testament penalty -- death -- if their prophecies didn't come true.

A man came in and, seemingly ignoring everything I'd written, then went right ahead and wrote what he saw as a prophecy.

Cinder asked him, "Yes, but would you still be willing to give that if you knew you'd be executed if it didn't come true?" I haven't been back to check lately, but to my knowledge, the man never answered.

The reason I wrote that thread is because the last time the Rapture was "supposed" to happen, we had a lot of people here on the forum "predicting" it -- I think it was proclaimed to be September of 2025? When September passed, then they said something like, "Oh, well on the calendar Jesus followed, it would be October..."

But October 2025 has long gone.

Another time, we had a guy who wrote his own thread proclaiming all his "prophecies," adding to them when he believed he got "a Word from the Lord." I can't remember what happened but the thread was eventually closed -- which he was very upset about because he apparently saw himself as very important.

He even publicly offered the site administration money to open it back up. One person pointed out that a real prophet of God would probably not stoop to bribery to push their own prophecies.

Over the years on CC, we've seen a myriad of people claiming to be prophets and/or "hear from God", so I know why you would want to question whether someone does or not.

The Bible says we will know them by their fruit. I know that if I'm not sure if someone is really hearing from God, I look at the fruit they're producing and go from there.

But that's just me.

(I'm going to continue on another post.)

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Just to clarify --

When I said "I would pass" in this instance, it DOES NOT mean I would pass Jacob's test -- it means I would pass, as in, I would turn down the offer to participate in Jacob's test, because I know I would fail.

In fact, here's the proof.

Just for fun, I've been sitting here asking God what the name Jacob is thinking of, and the name that came to mind was, "Clarabelle" (and the picture I get in my head is the cartoon cow.)

I know that has to be WAY off base, so for anyone who wants to stone me as a false prophet, feel free.

But in this case, I'm not claiming to teach anyone, I'm not claiming to make prophecies, and I'm not trying to declare that I have "a word from the Lord" that everyone MUST pay attention to.

I'm just an ordinary fellow sinful human being, hoping that she can maybe demonstrate some of the other ways God does indeed speak to His people.

cinder said:

If karlon had pulled the "god told me to tell you" thing then yeah test away. When karlon says this is how God speaks to me but he doesn't speak to everyone that way, what exactly are we testing? Especially when most people's experience of hearing from God is God directing their own personal lives, how is anyone on the internet supposed to test that in another person?

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You actually think it's common to audibly hear the Holy Spirit often? Okay. If you don't want to test the spirits for yourself, that's your right.

But @Jacobfaith has to the right to test the spirits for himself in obedience to what God inspired in the Bible.

Since Karlon can't answer Jacobfaith's question, there are other ways to test the spirits.

I would personally just ask God Himself in prayer if that was really Him talking to Karlon or not and sooner or later God will reveal His answer.

Karlon said:

"mates & dates" , sophunnneee!

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Lol!

I can't take credit for that one -- I knew of the concept, but it was @cinder who taught me that handy little way of summing it up.

cinder said:

If karlon had pulled the "god told me to tell you" thing then yeah test away. When karlon says this is how God speaks to me but he doesn't speak to everyone that way, what exactly are we testing? Especially when most people's experience of hearing from God is God directing their own personal lives, how is anyone on the internet supposed to test that in another person?

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i assent. God has not told me, " go & tell so & so.....". i know Christians who have been Christian for decades & they say they have never heard the audible voice of God. that really doesn't mean anything. God's chosen way of relationship with each individual is imperfect.

Karlon said:

it is impossible for God not to speak to a born again Christian. something is wrong here. when someone becomes born again, immediately, the Holy Spirit enters your life & lives with you forever. the Holy Spirit is the comforter & teacher. think of P{salm 37:23- "the steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord & he delighteth in his way". then Proverbs 3:5- "trust in the Lord with all thine heart & lean not unto thy own understanding, in all thy ways, acknowledge Him & He shall direct thy paths". inis UNMISTAKEABLE when the H.S. speaks to someone. you TOTALLY knows Him. if you are truly born again, the H.S is speaking to you. you haven't learned how to recognize Him. cast out the devil in your life as well as any strongholds: James 4:7- "submit yourselves to God, resist the devil & he will flee from you". step life up, get moving, locate the issue & discard it!!!!!!!!

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Oh I dunno... There were lots of times David complained that God didn't give him an answer when he was begging for one.

Now I ain't saying God NEVER talks to his people. But sometimes you won't get an answer when you ask for it.

Jacobfaith said:

I don't know if you're telling me the truth or not, so I'm going to test you.

I'm going to think of a name and if God does indeed speak to you, then you should be able to answer with the name I am thinking.

I'll give you 3 days.

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In my experience God only gives us information when we need it - not when we want it, not to show off as a cheap parlor trick, and never to boost someone's reputation or reveal someone's information for spurious reasons. So this test probably won't work.

I should also mention that just because God says something to you, it doesn't mean it's going to be positive (at least from a certain angle.)

Many years ago, I was praying, and I believe God told me, "Changes are coming to your life."

Now of course, since I was pretty sure this was coming from God, I JUST KNEW it was going to be something GOOD! It left me feeling upbeat and optimistic.

Some time after that... My beautiful, beloved Grandma died. She was a pistol, lol! I'm sure I get a little bit of my fire from her.

And she was doing fine... In fact, the whole family was coming from all over the country to see her and my Grandpa very soon. But it never came to be. One day she collapsed -- and not long after that, God took her home. I stayed the night in the hospital with her, and in the morning, something felt different. I believe God had taken her spirit during the night, though her body "lived" on for a little while longer.

I was heartbroken and devastated.

Her death did set the groundwork for something good years later -- she left me a little bit of money, and that paid for my expenses to move to another part of the country to be with and help other family members.

But at the time, it did NOT seem good AT ALL.

So another important thing to remember is that even if and when you DO hear from God, sometimes you're also going to have to accept things you really don't want to hear.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

You actually think it's common to audibly hear the Holy Spirit often? Okay. If you don't want to test the spirits for yourself, that's your right.

But @Jacobfaith has to the right to test the spirits for himself in obedience to what God inspired in the Bible.

Since Karlon can't answer Jacobfaith's question, there are other ways to test the spirits.

I would personally just ask God Himself in prayer if that was really Him talking to Karlon or not and sooner or later God will reveal His answer.

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I've taken no position on Karlon's claim. Nor have I ever said it was wrong to be skeptical about his original position that God is always speaking. But since it's becoming clear that you don't have the analytical skills to separate the claim from the method of testing the claim, continuing this discussion would not be productive. So how about we regroup and focus on answering the original question of how to hear from God and know that he's the one speaking to us?

Lynx said:

Oh I dunno... There were lots of times David complained that God didn't give him an answer when he was begging for one.

Now I ain't saying God NEVER talks to his people. But sometimes you won't get an answer when you ask for it.



In my experience God only gives us information when we need it - not when we want it, not to show off as a cheap parlor trick, and never to boost someone's reputation or reveal someone's information for spurious reasons. So this test probably won't work.

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a huge problem exists when a Christian is waiting for an answer: because said person didn't receive an answer on there timing, then they say: "God didn't answer me".

God talked to me first and it wasn't answering a question really but more of a statement of what to do for my situation.

Of course I did wonder at the time if I was schizophrenic because schizophrenic people DO hear voices. (that only they can hear)

In the Bible, everyone around heard God say of Jesus 'this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased' when he was baptised in the river Jordan.

seoulsearch said:

I should also mention that just because God says something to you, it doesn't mean it's going to be positive (at least from a certain angle.)

Many years ago, I was praying, and I believe God told me, "Changes are coming to your life."

Now of course, since I was pretty sure this was coming from God, I JUST KNEW it was going to be something GOOD! It left me feeling upbeat and optimistic.

Some time after that... My beautiful, beloved Grandma died. She was a pistol, lol! I'm sure I get a little bit of my fire from her.

And she was doing fine... In fact, the whole family was coming from all over the country to see her and my Grandpa very soon. But it never came to be. One day she collapsed -- and not long after that, God took her home. I stayed the night in the hospital with her, and in the morning, something felt different. I believe God had taken her spirit during the night, though her body "lived" on for a little while longer.

I was heartbroken and devastated.

Her death did set the groundwork for something good years later -- she left me a little bit of money, and that paid for my expenses to move to another part of the country to be with and help other family members.

But at the time, it did NOT seem good AT ALL.

So another important thing to remember is that even if and when you DO hear from God, sometimes you're also going to have to accept things you really don't want to hear.

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It's funny how we can completely twist the things that we believe God speaks to us as well -- even if we hear from Him correctly, and even if we understand the exact words He's giving us, we can still get things very, very wrong.

When I believed God was telling me "Changes are coming to your life," I took that as, "You're going to meet someone and get married and have a family," because God knew that was my biggest desire at the time.

When Grandma was dying in the hospital, and the people from church (BIG believers in faith healing) came to pray for her, I was SURE I felt God's presence in the room, and I was SURE God was going to heal her.

I believed God was going to make her well -- so that she would be able to come to my wedding someday, even though I had absolutely NO prospects to speak of. I even believed she would be there for the birth of my kids (her future great-grandchildren.)

Notice how I made everything all about ME.

But NONE of what I thought was going to happen EVER happened -- and it was a very important lesson to me about God being God, and doing things in the way He sees best -- no matter how painful it may be to us.

I'm positive I heard from God.

But I also tried to force it into all these things I wanted for my own life -- and boy, was that ever a smackdown of a lesson.

seoulsearch said:

When I said "I would pass" in this instance, it DOES NOT mean I would pass Jacob's test -- it means I would pass, as in, I would turn down the offer to participate in Jacob's test, because I know I would fail.

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There is no Jacob's test under the New Covenant.
We either submit to the Lord or we do not and our decision dictates what comes our way

There's so much that went on in the old covenant that is not applicable to New Covenant believers and those trying to apply old covenant things to Christians get in to all kinds of trouble. Like those who "put out a fleece before the Lord" and end up getting fleeced by the devil.

Romans 2:7-11 - To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

I don't understand why so many Christians believe that God's promise to them is about getting married and having children. Or God's plan is that.

I never heard God promise anything like that. Even in the Bible He does not promise that, the only thing He promised was to Abraham (who was already married) and his descendants, and that was the land of Canaan that was given to them.

Lanolin said:

God talked to me first and it wasn't answering a question really but more of a statement of what to do for my situation.
Of course I did wonder at the time if I was schizophrenic because schizophrenic people DO hear voices. (that only they can hear)
In the Bible, everyone around heard God say of Jesus 'this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased' when he was baptised in the river Jordan.

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This is an excellent point, thank you for bringing it up.

There seems to be so much mental illness now (I was talking with a friend last week about whether it's just more recognized or if it's really increasing,) and for some reason, religion often seems to be thrown into the mix.

Forums like this seem to attract A LOT of it -- especially if it's a situation where people can't work -- it seems like many decide to plant themselves online as "spiritual teachers" as something to do.

I've lost count of the number of people I've followed over the years who are saying "spiritual" but "bizarre" things -- and some kind of substance abuse, absence of treatment, or choice of illicit drugs as "treatment" often comes up as a contributing factor.

I was in live chat here a couple months ago and someone was going off "preaching" on the mic... I asked a long-standing member what was happening.

Now I don't know if it's true or not, and it's between the person on the mic and God -- but I was told that the person "preaching" has a mental illness -- and often goes unmedicated, apparently by choice. But the others were used to it and try to show that person grace.

I guess this is where I go back to looking at the substance of what the person is saying, along with the kind of fruits they are producing to help -- or just cut down -- others with.

cinder said:

I've taken no position on Karlon's claim. Nor have I ever said it was wrong to be skeptical about his original position that God is always speaking. But since it's becoming clear that you don't have the analytical skills to separate the claim from the method of testing the claim, continuing this discussion would not be productive. So how about we regroup and focus on answering the original question of how to hear from God and know that he's the one speaking to us?

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Have you ever had to test the spirits? God doesn't contradict His word.

seoulsearch said:

This is an excellent point, thank you for bringing it up.

There seems to be so much mental illness now (I was talking with a friend last week about whether it's just more recognized or if it's really increasing,) and for some reason, religion often seems to be thrown into the mix.

Forums like this seem to attract A LOT of it -- especially if it's a situation where people can't work -- it seems like many decide to plant themselves online as "spiritual teachers" as something to do.

I've lost count of the number of people I've followed over the years who are saying "spiritual" but "bizarre" things -- and some kind of substance abuse, absence of treatment, or choice of illicit drugs as "treatment" often comes up as a contributing factor.

I was in live chat here a couple months ago and someone was going off "preaching" on the mic... I asked a long-standing member what was happening.

Now I don't know if it's true or not, and it's between the person on the mic and God -- but I was told that the person "preaching" has a mental illness -- and often goes unmedicated, apparently by choice. But the others were used to it and try to show that person grace.

I guess this is where I go back to looking at the substance of what the person is saying, along with the kind of fruits they are producing to help -- or just cut down -- others with.

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I tend to think these people are mistaking clairvoyancy or psychic connection to the dead for God because its invisible voices telling them something nobody else can hear.

Ghosts and spirits can and do talk and haunt people. That's why there's discerning of spirits.

Another thing that is interesting is the Messiah syndrome/complex that people get, often when visiting Jerusalem. That has been documented many times.

There is an easy way to discern though and of course the name above all names must be spoken and what He did. There are many Jesus counterfeits. When you don't read the Bible, people are easily mistaken that a voice is from God when it's not.

When on drugs OR under influence or hallucinating, spiritual experiences can seem REAL to the person and they can't explain it, so they rationalise it and say it was God. Thats just not me being sceptical, thats just what happens with a lot of people.

seoulsearch said:

It's funny how we can completely twist the things that we believe God speaks to us as well -- even if we hear from Him correctly, and even if we understand the exact words He's giving us, we can still get things very, very wrong.

When I believed God was telling me "Changes are coming to your life," I took that as, "You're going to meet someone and get married and have a family," because God knew that was my biggest desire at the time.

When Grandma was dying in the hospital, and the people from church (BIG believers in faith healing) came to pray for her, I was SURE I felt God's presence in the room, and I was SURE God was going to heal her.

I believed God was going to make her well -- so that she would be able to come to my wedding someday, even though I had absolutely NO prospects to speak of. I even believed she would be there for the birth of my kids (her future great-grandchildren.)

Notice how I made everything all about ME.

But NONE of what I thought was going to happen EVER happened -- and it was a very important lesson to me about God being God, and doing things in the way He sees best -- no matter how painful it may be to us.

I'm positive I heard from God.

But I also tried to force it into all these things I wanted for my own life -- and boy, was that ever a smackdown of a lesson.

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writing on paper what the H.S. said to anyone is wise. i have written down everything He said to me. it keeps the real meaning in your brain.

I just thought of another story to share.

I think many people also think that "hearing from God" means that God is going to tell them all sorts of wonderful things about themselves and blessings He's going to give them. Many people want to hear from God because they want to be told only good things.

Now of course, sometimes God might want to tell you good things about yourself and your life.

There is no doubt that God has been good and blessed me beyond what I could ever thank Him for, but what I find is that God often speaks to me to help me better understand other people. His main concern isn't showering me with sunshine and rainbows, but emphasizing what He wants me to do (whether I want to or not.)

One typical Sunday, many years ago, I was in church, not really looking at anyone around me. But when it came time to "Turn around and say hello to someone around you," I noticed one particular man.

He was probably in his late 40's, good-looking, lots of tattoos but dressed up -- and to me, he looked extremely nervous and uncomfortable. He shook people's hands, but he looked afraid to do so, and like he didn't want anyone to look him in the eye.

Now, I could be 100% wrong about this, but I believe God was telling me that this man was struggling with alcohol and pornography, which was making him feel very ashamed -- but he was trying to find his way back to God.

The reason he didn't want to look anyone in the eye was exactly because he was afraid someone would see this about him.

All I felt led to do was to shake his hand and say hello like everyone else -- he didn't really look at me -- I was just another face in the crowd, which is often a blessing. I never spoke to him personally, and I didn't see him again.

I always want to emphasize, I could be 1000% wrong -- if it really was God speaking to me, and if I really was understanding what God was telling me, I believe the reason God told me something so personal was to pray for this man -- and to remember him, and to keep on praying for him.

I still remember him and pray for him, and it's probably around 20 years later.

And I could be wrong, but the reason I think God sometimes specifically tells me these things is because He's given me a lot of experience in praying for people dealing with shame. It was God's way of telling me, "We've seen this together before -- get out your Prayer Plays Book and run what you know to pray for over this."

This is another very important thing I've learned about hearing from God.

The selfish part of me wants to believe it's going to be all about me -- that God wants to speak to me because he's only going to speak to me about all the wonderful things He's going to do and bring to my life.

But a good majority of the time, He speaks to me about others, not myself (unless it's to correct me,) and in the context of what He wants me to do to help the ones He's telling me about.

God also demonstrates to me through this He sees us, no matter what -- even if it's through someone else.

And even if it doesn't feel like God cares about our situation or struggles, He actually does care so much that He just might be directing someone to pray for you -- even if you never meet them, and even if you never know about it.

seoulsearch said:

I just thought of another story to share.

I think many people also think that "hearing from God" means that God is going to tell them all sorts of wonderful things about themselves and blessings He's going to give them. Many people want to hear from God because they want to be told only good things.

Now of course, sometimes God might want to tell you good things about yourself and your life.

There is no doubt that God has been good and blessed me beyond what I could ever thank Him for, but what I find is that God often speaks to me to help me better understand other people. His main concern isn't showering me with sunshine and rainbows, but emphasizing what He wants me to do (whether I want to or not.)

One typical Sunday, many years ago, I was in church, not really looking at anyone around me. But when it came time to "Turn around and say hello to someone around you," I noticed one particular man.

He was probably in his late 40's, good-looking, lots of tattoos but dressed up -- and to me, he looked extremely nervous and uncomfortable. He shook people's hands, but he looked afraid to do so, and like he didn't want anyone to look him in the eye.

Now, I could be 100% wrong about this, but I believe God was telling me that this man was struggling with alcohol and pornography, which was making him feel very ashamed -- but he was trying to find his way back to God.

The reason he didn't want to look anyone in the eye was exactly because he was afraid someone would see this about him.

All I felt led to do was to shake his hand and say hello like everyone else -- he didn't really look at me -- I was just another face in the crowd, which is often a blessing. I never spoke to him personally, and I didn't see him again.

I always want to emphasize, I could be 1000% wrong -- if it really was God speaking to me, and if I really was understanding what God was telling me, I believe the reason God told me something so personal was to pray for this man -- and to remember him, and to keep on praying for him.

I still remember him and pray for him, and it's probably around 20 years later.

And I could be wrong, but the reason I think God sometimes specifically tells me these things is because He's given me a lot of experience in praying for people dealing with shame. It was God's way of telling me, "We've seen this together before -- get out your Prayer Plays Book and run what you know to pray for over this."

This is another very important thing I've learned about hearing from God.

The selfish part of me wants to believe it's going to be all about me -- that God wants to speak to me because he's only going to speak to me about all the wonderful things He's going to do and bring to my life.

But a good majority of the time, He speaks to me about others, not myself (unless it's to correct me,) and in the context of what He wants me to do to help the ones He's telling me about.

God also demonstrates to me through this He sees us, no matter what -- even if it's through someone else.

And even if it doesn't feel like God cares about our situation or struggles, He actually does care so much that He just might be directing someone to pray for you -- even if you never meet them, and even if you never know about it.

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stories as this do encourage others. He will never leave us nor forsake us.

Jacobfaith said:

Wow this blew up, I was away for like one night and a morning lol

Anyways, Karlon has until the passing of Sunday to tell me the name.

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no, i'm not going to play your ungodly game! bye!