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Yesterday was both the best day so far and a day that will haunt me for a long time.

John can't sit up on his own yet, so to get him out of bed, they need a lift.

(except he's bigger, not so well dressed, and can't hold himself up like that sideways. lol)

So his PT and OT got him out and to the physical therapy room. (I like "gym" better.) Thankfully, I sat behind him. Thankfully, because he stood, and I could tell by the expression on everyone helping him's faces and the way they all stood around him, he did most of the standing himself. He really STOOD! A full five seconds! He told me he thought he'd never do that again before, so tears streamed down my face.

And then, he did it again.

He also did other exercises because chairs cause excruciating pain, and, not only are the exercises good to get his arms strong enough to walk those parallel bars, but they devert his mind from the pain of the chair.

And then he went back to his room, and the PT told him he has to sit there for the remainder of the hour. And, she's been having this fight with John's nurses, because they keep saying they don't know how to use the lift, but it's basic nursing training, so they ought to. But she was going to lunch, so she was forcing their hand.

25 minutes before John would return to his bed, he was beside himself in pain. (I'm busy trying to divert his mind, but, let's face it, me talking just isn't that exciting.) 5 minutes left and we already had it figured out it takes 5 minutes to get him ready, so I go out to ask the nurses to start getting him in bed. I get one of those, "I will when I'm ready looks."

They come in after 5 minutes -- four of them and they heard about this lift thingy, didn't realize there was one in the room, one of them has done it before, but not with that sling, which is new because of some useless regulation just put in place about bedsores, (I tell him he IS the reason for that regulation), blahblahblah.

15 minutes later, John is dangling with the only thing stopping him from having his knees IN his chest is the foley bottle and the poop bag! They're between his face and legs and he's squished so tightly, I hurt! But I wouldn't say anything for fear these nurses would stop to discuss it with me.

20 minutes to get him from the chair to the bed, and another half an hour cleaning him up because the other end of one of those tubes left spraying it all around him. (And, no, not the catheter.) Oh, and the nurse forgot his gown, so guess who lived with the full monty while nurses stared at him for no particular reason other then to spend tie mentally ticking off their "did I miss anything" list.

His PT stop by a minute later and I burst out crying when I begged her never to put him through that again.

She won't, but she is worried this sets a precedence. I know it does, but he's my husband!

Really hard to believe God's just not messing with us.
 

Pilkington

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2015
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Praise God he was able to stand.

I can not believe the nurses said they didn't know how to use a hoist. Before I could go on placement as a Physician Associate in UK I had to do manual handle training which included moving patients with hoists and moving patients aren't part of our role (if needed I would move a patient). We also as do all hospital staff have to manual handling training every year, it has to be done within our working hours.
 
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Miri

Guest
I think there are hoists of different sizes, if he was hunched up bent almost
double then either the hoist (the material part) was the wrong size or not used
correctly.

Did he actually need a hoist! If he can stand for 5 seconds he could probably
sit on the edge of the bed. This is what my aunt did, then they used slide sheets
to ease her into bed, it only took a matter of seconds. It might be worth askig the
staff.

Good to hear John was able to stand - small steps :D
 
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Guest
Praise God he was able to stand.

I can not believe the nurses said they didn't know how to use a hoist. Before I could go on placement as a Physician Associate in UK I had to do manual handle training which included moving patients with hoists and moving patients aren't part of our role (if needed I would move a patient). We also as do all hospital staff have to manual handling training every year, it has to be done within our working hours.
When I was a kid, if I whined enough, Mom would do what she told me to do.

One day we were all raking leaves. (I didn't mind because once they were raked into a pile, we could jump in them, as long as we put them back in the pile afterward.) The leaves went into a bin in our wagon to be taken to another part of the yard.

I'm terrified of anything with more than four legs. (Spiders, insects, centipedes, etc.) That wagon was pulled to the site before we started, so there weren't spider webs around it, and yet I saw spiders headed exactly horizontal from the wagon. There was no way the thread of a web was connected on both sides, so I screamed, "Flying spiders!" (followed by the typical ew, ew, ew gestures associated with eight year old girls.)

Mom thought I was trying to get out of work, so told me to go to my room. (Bad mistake. I liked my room. lol) I wasn't, but I'd be able to jump into the pile even if I didn't help make the pile, so I quickly agreed.

But, all these years later, when I see people going through childish antics to get out of work, the phrase "Flying Spiders" comes to my mind.

Flying spiders! That's the reason they had so much trouble moving John. Either that or they failed their course but still got the diploma. Give me two more times to watch the proper way of putting John in that sling and I can do it. (Except for the part where they have to guide his body around the wheelchair arm. That would take two people.)
 

Pilkington

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2015
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If they can't do that, what else can't they do it doesn't exactly fill you with confidence. We were taught that normally you should have two people to use hoists. We had to hoist each other!!! Yes and we had to work out the right size of sling and make sure it wasn't too small. Make sure they don't leave John in the sling when sitting in a chair or wheel chair. We were also taught about maintaining the dignity of the patient at all times.
 
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Miri

Guest
When I was a kid, if I whined enough, Mom would do what she told me to do.

One day we were all raking leaves. (I didn't mind because once they were raked into a pile, we could jump in them, as long as we put them back in the pile afterward.) The leaves went into a bin in our wagon to be taken to another part of the yard.

I'm terrified of anything with more than four legs. (Spiders, insects, centipedes, etc.) That wagon was pulled to the site before we started, so there weren't spider webs around it, and yet I saw spiders headed exactly horizontal from the wagon. There was no way the thread of a web was connected on both sides, so I screamed, "Flying spiders!" (followed by the typical ew, ew, ew gestures associated with eight year old girls.)

Mom thought I was trying to get out of work, so told me to go to my room. (Bad mistake. I liked my room. lol) I wasn't, but I'd be able to jump into the pile even if I didn't help make the pile, so I quickly agreed.

But, all these years later, when I see people going through childish antics to get out of work, the phrase "Flying Spiders" comes to my mind.

Flying spiders! That's the reason they had so much trouble moving John. Either that or they failed their course but still got the diploma. Give me two more times to watch the proper way of putting John in that sling and I can do it. (Except for the part where they have to guide his body around the wheelchair arm. That would take two people.)

Flying spiders, creepy crawlies! You will have to read my latest post on the adversity
thread - I loved creepy crawlies as a child!

Oh did you l know all spiders are called Harry. Harry the spider, at least they are
in my house.


6831.gif
 
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Guest
I think there are hoists of different sizes, if he was hunched up bent almost
double then either the hoist (the material part) was the wrong size or not used
correctly.

Did he actually need a hoist! If he can stand for 5 seconds he could probably
sit on the edge of the bed. This is what my aunt did, then they used slide sheets
to ease her into bed, it only took a matter of seconds. It might be worth askig the
staff.

Good to hear John was able to stand - small steps :D
There's a third choice -- intentional incompetence. (Flying spiders.)

And he can't use a bedpan yet, so hoses (they call them tubes, but too big) are used, so him sliding around is hampered.

Because hs bottom is so sore, but he needs the chair to stand and sit, they're now giving him morphine first. (It makes him nauseous, and I keep telling him they have enough different pain meds that he doesn't have to settle, but he won't let me tell them he's sick, so....) Remember his blood pressure was too low, (probably because of a bleeder), so when he sat up, he got dizzy? I've seen the numbers. It used to be his high number was as low as his low number used to be high (around 70-97 for the high number. Much lower for the low number.) He used to take four high blood pressure medications just to keep him at above normal for most folks. (130/90 was great.) Now we get excited when the high number hits three digits and the low number is above 60. (Got really excited yesterday because it was 110/70 -- PERFECT!)

But there are two side effects to the morphine:
1. It makes him dizzier.
2. It lowers his blood pressure.

So, he was too dizzy to stand. (Nauseous too. I can pick out that face from the pain-grimace face. I saw both today.) But because of that, the therapists are going to change his meds. (Yay! Didn't have to tell.)

AND, the thing I wanted to happen has happened. I wanted him in the VA for the rehab part of getting better, because I knew the patients would be his kind of people -- a sense of humor, a bit of a smart-alex/sarcastic streak, (what? You thought only I had that?
), and the comradery to both encourage and push each other. He's getting that too. And honestly. I now know it might well take longer than I imagined, yet again. (I might have to go to him for Christmas again this year. But at least he'll remember it this time. He remembers very little of the other hospital. Not even me -- which I'm fine with, considering he would have hurted more there than he does now, and this hurt rates an 8 and tears.) I got that from two different guys who thought it would be quicker for themselves, but are happy they can walk at all.
 

Pilkington

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2015
640
99
28
Morphine is great for pain control but boy does it have side effects. It also depresses respiration and causes constipation.
 
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If they can't do that, what else can't they do it doesn't exactly fill you with confidence. We were taught that normally you should have two people to use hoists. We had to hoist each other!!! Yes and we had to work out the right size of sling and make sure it wasn't too small. Make sure they don't leave John in the sling when sitting in a chair or wheel chair. We were also taught about maintaining the dignity of the patient at all times.
They can't figure out if he's allowed to have ice chips, if they should feed him ice chips with their fingers, if he's allowed to have water, (and all that is on a memo on his door, so even I can figure that one out), how to clean out his feeding tube before feeding him, or if they should, how to get the plug off his feeding tube, (he teaches them), how to insert the tube the food passes through, (he teaches them) how to change the bandage on his trach hole, (he teaches them that too, but they're afraid they'll mess up, so they don't, or they're afraid he doesn't know any better than they do, so they gag him by shoving too many pads into too small an area), if or how to change the bandages on his tush when his poop tube comes out, if it's the receptionist, his nurse, or someone else that should deliver my letters to his doctors, (they've elected John to the task, completely not catching on that I'm complaining because he never sees his doctors and is stuck not getting his own stuff because they leave it too far away for him to reach), if they should even tell me who his doctor is, if they should wash him, how to wash his hair or if it ever needs washing,... the list of what they don't know keeps growing.

One thing they all do know though -- never clean out ears with cotton swabs. He has waxy build up, plus he's hard of hearing, so I've been trying to get someone to clean out his ears for 14 weeks. No can do, nor was I allowed to use cotton swabs. So, last Saturday, I brought in his ear cleaning supplies and he cleaned them. The next day, he needed to clean out one of the ears better, so I pulled out the cotton swabs. He got caught, so I gave the other side of the story to that nurse. Tomorrow I bring in the supplies to clean a sensitive area no nurse has thought should be cleaned since he's been in the hospital. I have no idea if the other hospital ever cleaned that area, so he might be headed to 16 weeks of one intimate part of him never being cleaned.

I'm not kidding. They really are incompetent -- on purpose. This is a veteran's hospital, so it is run by our government. And this is exactly why Americans are against government-sponsored and administered healthcare.
 
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Morphine is great for pain control but boy does it have side effects. It also depresses respiration and causes constipation.
We were actually hoping for constipation. The tube-food causes diarrhea.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Maybe God is calling you to speak up for the patients and their rights in this hospital. I remember you mention having a communication degree. Perhaps and article or letter to the person in charge might get those nurses in a retraining class on how to use a lift.

From the sound of it, they might be taking steps so that other patients don't develop stage 4 bedsores....the hospital should have treated it early and the nurses should turn him every 2 hours...otherwise that is neglect and will take longer for him to heal.

Praise God that he was able to stand for a little while. Perhaps he will be able to do that weekly, than daily.

However, I think it was too much to have him sit in the wheelchair for 1 hour after. Especially when he hasn't been sitting in bed, prior.

Does your church have an advocate or someone to counsel you about your legal rights and make sure that the nursing staff knows there are consequences for not doing their jobs?

Personally I think it would have been better for the physical therapist to supervise his transfer back to bed and elevated the bed to a sitting position and then when it got to be painful, lower it to 30 degrees.

Hopefully you won't give up on having him work on sitting in the chair and standing because of the nurses lack. Perhaps that new head nurse can teach them or have them taught how to do it.

Will keep you both in prayer.

May God bless you and guide you, so that your words and actions reflect His glory and love.
 
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Guest
Maybe God is calling you to speak up for the patients and their rights in this hospital. I remember you mention having a communication degree. Perhaps and article or letter to the person in charge might get those nurses in a retraining class on how to use a lift.[QUOTE/]
They can't figure out if he's allowed to have ice chips, if they should feed him ice chips with their fingers, if he's allowed to have water, (and all that is on a memo on his door, so even I can figure that one out), how to clean out his feeding tube before feeding him, or if they should, how to get the plug off his feeding tube, (he teaches them), how to insert the tube the food passes through, (he teaches them) how to change the bandage on his trach hole, (he teaches them that too, but they're afraid they'll mess up, so they don't, or they're afraid he doesn't know any better than they do, so they gag him by shoving too many pads into too small an area), if or how to change the bandages on his tush when his poop tube comes out, if it's the receptionist, his nurse, or someone else that should deliver my letters to his doctors, (they've elected John to the task, completely not catching on that I'm complaining because he never sees his doctors and is stuck not getting his own stuff because they leave it too far away for him to reach), if they should even tell me who his doctor is, if they should wash him, how to wash his hair or if it ever needs washing,... the list of what they don't know keeps growing....
Four letters so far. (One per week in this unit, although it hasn't been once a week.) Two included The Patient's Bill of Rights. The first time only one section was used. The second time I sent a copy of the VA Hospitals Patients' Bill of Right -- four pages -- with highlighted parts and a brief list of how he has been neglected -- three pages. Haven't seen or heard from his doctors since.

From the sound of it, they might be taking steps so that other patients don't develop stage 4 bedsores....the hospital should have treated it early and the nurses should turn him every 2 hours...otherwise that is neglect and will take longer for him to heal.
Regulations need to be explained and used for it to be beneficial to the patients. Folding him in two like a piece of paper did bring down the wrath of his PT. Apparently, nurses get weekly classes, and how to lift a patient will be on the agenda next. BUT that nurse was busy complaining about how hard it was on her, not him. You can't retrain an attitude, especially while proving the it's-all-about-me attitude works. Government job, so you can't be fired without two years of intense training to teach you how to do your job right and to fill that person's jacket (performance folder) with reprimands. Firing someone is too hard, so no one does that either, and the employees know this. So incompetence is rewarded and fostered.
Praise God that he was able to stand for a little while. Perhaps he will be able to do that weekly, than daily.

However, I think it was too much to have him sit in the wheelchair for 1 hour after. Especially when he hasn't been sitting in bed, prior.

Does your church have an advocate or someone to counsel you about your legal rights and make sure that the nursing staff knows there are consequences for not doing their jobs?

Personally I think it would have been better for the physical therapist to supervise his transfer back to bed and elevated the bed to a sitting position and then when it got to be painful, lower it to 30 degrees.

Hopefully you won't give up on having him work on sitting in the chair and standing because of the nurses lack. Perhaps that new head nurse can teach them or have them taught how to do it.

Will keep you both in prayer.

May God bless you and guide you, so that your words and actions reflect His glory and love.
His pain is in his hips and bedsore. 30 degrees is painful, but even so, he has to be at 30 degrees to get fed and to have water and/or ice chips. The only way for him to get better physically is to endure that pain. What fixes the hip pain is standing and walking. I'm not sure if he ever gets his bedsore past the point of pain, because they promised him a wound vac and lied about that too. So, he's doing exactly what he shouldn't do, because he has no choice. Turning him causes more pain. No one is turning him unless it's his PT. The nurses are aware he should be turned, but... well? After the lift debacle I'm not going to force the issue, and I don't have the heart to cause him unrelenting pain.

I've been telling the problems. I know what's needed. What's needed can't/won't be done.
 
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Guest
Morphine is great for pain control but boy does it have side effects. It also depresses respiration and causes constipation.
Can you teach me how to reintroduce food to him? All they're doing now is maintaining status quo until they can get him out of there into rehab, and they have no idea they haven't set going-to-rehab in place yet for him to go. (If they had set that in motion, I'd be seeing a social worker telling me the same thing she's told me the last 8-10 times she told me he's going to rehab. I know this, because hubby has given me full say on his rehab choice. They want to give him "choices," but we can only afford one choice.)

He's no longer interested in food, other than to help me figure out how to cook for myself. There is no reason he has to be stuck on water and ice chips only. He's tolerated them fine since January 15th. The only holdup is a part time speech therapist deciding a piece of equipment needs to be used because she can't tell if he can swallow. Frankly, the fact that he hasn't had aspirating pneumonia in the last 51 days tells me that. (No pneumonia since November, but it became important when he was swallowing on his own.) I'd like to reintroduce him to liquids (other than water) at least, given my research says he's reached a point where no tasting feels right to him. That scares me. They're neglect is turning him into a perpetual invalid. He's not!
 
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Guest
John just called. He's frantic. His "team" came in to tell him he's going to rehab tomorrow. He doesn't know where. He's told them often enough that he can't make this decision so talk to me. They told him to page them when I come for a visit. Funny! I can't even get a letter to them, yet I'm supposed to page them?

Something we know now. Any rehab but the one connected to the hospital will cost $165 a day (after 20 days), PLUS medication, plus administering medication, plus who knows what else because this hospital certainly doesn't know.

And I just got off the phone with his social worker, except she hasn't been his social worker since he moved into this unit. So much for social workers contacting me -- or even him!

She's back to giving me the whole thing that he's not going into the VA because they're full, so he goes to Medicare after 20 days. His PT -- one of two women who do care -- told me he'd take months. We CANNOT afford this! We CANNOT afford for him to not have this!
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Newspapers, tv station? Neglect shouldn't go unchallenged. With a stage 4 bedsore and then not turning him probably and helping him be reintroduced to food, it sounds like a strong case for medical incompetence and neglect.

They shouldn't force him out until his bedside is healed and he can feed and go to the bathroom himself.

Perhaps you can find a pro bono lawyer who will take your case?
 
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Guest
Good news. "He's ready for rehab tomorrow" does NOT mean he's going into rehab tomorrow. It means his social worker has to find him one fast. I've been tasked with finding one I like close to me.

Oh, the joy! I have three days to find it. (Is that thank God it's a weekend, or not, since it's optional if I can see them on weekends.) STILL disabled. Have managed to force four hours of dealing with stuff about John, but have been paying dearly for it in pain. (I was told to rush to the hospital at 11:30 AM, so I did. Got there at 11:50, but the person who told me to rush was out for lunch. Everyone came to see us -- after an hour, got all this dumped on me, and everyone left -- by 1:30 -- happy to have done their part. And they kept telling me how much they like him and how sorry they are. What happens to people they don't like?) Now I'm supposed to do even more.

Suddenly, he doesn't qualify for the one across the street.

I talked to Medicare, and found out he "should" pay $1288 for the first 60 days. (and then $320 a day after that. Goes up to $644 a day at Day 91.) BUT, they don't pay for anything extra the nursing home adds to that, and the woman had no idea what they would add to that. Since he has a bedsore (and today they put on the wound vac finally) plus he's on meds for the pain, I can see that added stuff piling up.

Not the VA hospital's problem. He will be discharged. We're both on Social Security. Together we make $34,000 a year, and I rounded that off to the higher number.

Looks like he comes home an invalid, not because he can't get back to what he was, but because the US government has set these terms.

His PT talked to him about which nursing homes rehab the best according to her patients. According to her patients, this is the best out of our choices. According to the Medicare site it's three stars. How do I pick a good nursing home?

(BTW, I just learned rehab IS nursing homes.)

In the last 90 minutes, I talked to Medicare, talked to his social worker, called the store that I bought a chair from (finally bought a new chair that won't constantly hurt my back and bum, only to have to have it delivered in nine days, instead of two days), talked to my brother to find out Dad had to go to the hospital for neck pain (arthritis -- take two Ibuprofens and don't call me in the morning) and blood in his urine (don't know why since he's supposedly as healthy as a 20 year old -- urine wise -- oh that and he had his prostate removed in the 1990s), and the guy who was hopefully going to repair my TENS unit. Can't be done. The circuit board is fried, and they don't make 1990 circuit boards anymore.
 
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Finally, hopeful news. We live on 16th St. All north-south (semi- or fully) major streets in Philadelphia are numbered, (except for Broad St., which ought to have been called "14th St.") Each numbered street is exactly 1/8th of a mile from the next numbered street, so 8 of them is one mile. Between 4th and 5th, two blocks north of us (thus 1/4th of a mile north of us, and obviously 12-13 blocks east) is a rehab on the preapproved Medicare list. We've gone to flea markets in its recreation field right below it. We used to live on 13th St. in the same block it's on. It IS our neighborhood.

It's also Catholic, so didn't come to mind as an "ooo-ooo exciting" choice, but one thing Catholics have that most denominations don't have is a willingness not to get put off dealing with someone outside of their denomination. I called them. First question: "How much?"
"Insurance will pay for it."
"We have Medicare, so then how much?"
(A little exasperation in her voice, but I like that.) "Insurance will pay for it."




"Do you except patients with MRSA."
(A little duh-now in her voice, and I like that too. Her attitude is proper SOP in South Philly, so when they don't do that, I get nervous.) "Of course."
"I have three days to chose a place, so when can I come to check it out?"
"Whenever you want."
<----me. Pert-near happy, but not outrageously happy, until I check it out and find it's good.

If'n this is THE place, please feel free to Jethro Gibbs head-slap me for not trusting God enough yet again.
[video=youtube;LCsGCpeoOJ0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCsGCpeoOJ0[/video]
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Love the bunny. Keeping you and your husband and whole neighborhood in my prayers.

God bless and keep you.
 
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Depleted

Guest


Please read my last three posts before reading this one, or you won't get why I'm whirling in confusion. John's going to that VA rehab across the street later today -- the one that supposedly decided he can't go to, the one his PT said he doesn't want to go to, and the one everyone said isn't going to happen.

Why? Because he will be taken care of for free for the next 90 days, so by then, he'll be improved enough to come closer to home, to another rehab, which means it won't cost us as much money. They don't rehab on weekends, however in 90 days, he should be sitting, standing, and maybe even up to getting in and out of his wheelchair. He better be eating by then too. lol

It will take longer this way, but John's okay with that because we won't go broke getting him home quicker.

And no idea how this affects when he can eat again. I don't know if this delays or speeds up that process. Of course, the last time doctors hemmed and hawed because he was being transferred, they ultimately decided to do nothing with his vent but the bare-minimum, and when he was transferred, he had a trach in a mere two days, so I'm thinking the hemming and hawing is directly related to "we don't want to deal with this, so let the next guys." And then the next guys react with "why wasn't this dealt with" so they get rid of the extra stuff. The resident (aka lapdog for his doctor, but a new guy in the last three days so I know more about how this works than he does -- and not sarcastic. Yesterday I was explaining to the residents that the speech therapist is part time and is only there Thursday afternoons and one other afternoon, because they didn't know that lol) tells me it's a different speech therapist over there, but someone along the line told me she works for both.

Some things most rehabs seem to supply -- dentist, (even for dentures), and haircuts. A mere 16 weeks later, and I may not have to be the one who cuts his hair with a vacuum cleaner. lol

Has anyone caught on that I could have gotten my chair tomorrow had I known how this would work out?

Gibbs slap time?
 

Pilkington

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2015
640
99
28
Can you teach me how to reintroduce food to him? All they're doing now is maintaining status quo until they can get him out of there into rehab, and they have no idea they haven't set going-to-rehab in place yet for him to go. (If they had set that in motion, I'd be seeing a social worker telling me the same thing she's told me the last 8-10 times she told me he's going to rehab. I know this, because hubby has given me full say on his rehab choice. They want to give him "choices," but we can only afford one choice.)

He's no longer interested in food, other than to help me figure out how to cook for myself. There is no reason he has to be stuck on water and ice chips only. He's tolerated them fine since January 15th. The only holdup is a part time speech therapist deciding a piece of equipment needs to be used because she can't tell if he can swallow. Frankly, the fact that he hasn't had aspirating pneumonia in the last 51 days tells me that. (No pneumonia since November, but it became important when he was swallowing on his own.) I'd like to reintroduce him to liquids (other than water) at least, given my research says he's reached a point where no tasting feels right to him. That scares me. They're neglect is turning him into a perpetual invalid. He's not!
I wish I knew and could teach you how to reintroduce your husband to food. The made thing is it is covered by speach therapists. When my Hubby goes to see the respiratory consultant he sees a speach therapist aswell as Beckers Muscular Dystrophy can effect swallowing. There are numerous muscles and nerves in the face, and mouth involved in swallowing. The speach therapists need to check that he can swallow safely. Bad though it would be to aspirate water into the lungs, food would be far worse as it would sit and rot. They will look at the swallow reflex, may thicken liquids, stodgy tea or coffee, puried food etc, soft food, slightly lumpy food, normal food. They may teach techniques like turning the head to the side when swallowing as it can help protect the airway. This is basically what I have seen being done with stroke patients.

I am going to continue praying, I can see how nightmarish this all must be. I am so glad they have the vacumn dressing it should help healing, if that doesn't work then the chances are he will need it rebuilt with surgery. We have been studying about ICU care and sometimes even with the best care possible Ulcers occur and yes they can be as bad as grade 4 ulcers. I think there is always a lot of passing the buck and no one wanting to take responsibillity. When John has recovered if you have the strength it may be worth writing to the director of the hospital about all the things that were done wrongly etc. Sometimes if someone speaks out or enough people speak out changes happen.