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so what's your point? We have the church which is Jew and Gentile, we have the nations ... but then we have the Jews. They are not the church but they are not the nations either. ... they have promises made to them that differ from the promise made to the church.

But it was Abe's seed which rejected Christ, they were predestined to do so, it was through their rejection that YOU were saved ... salvation is of the Jews. As touching the gospel they are enemies for your sakes but as touching election election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers for...

I said clearly that old testament saints are church.

Remember Hebrews say clearly that Abraham was promised that land but never came into possession of it showing that he was looking for a better kingdom. The earth promise was made to all Abe's seed, the heavenly home was not promised ... but some looked for it. God said look to the stars too...

In Christ we are promised heaven, we are not promised earth ... the Jews are.

Paul says he was of the remnant, the remnant were the early church. Of Israel in the last time Paul says ALL Israel will be saved. What "all" may mean is a subject of debate but it doesn't mean few. Jacob prevailed in his striving against man and God and God called him Prince ... and all...

I am not talking about the church, our inheritance is heaven and that includes O T saints. God said to Abe look at the stars too numerous to count so shall your seed be, again God said look at the sand of the seashore, too numerous to count so shall your seed be. There is the heavenly seed...

They actually did ask me back, but well if it is all upon the whim of the chief mod?

Caiaphas fell and so did Israel, Peter represents the remnant. Israel's fall was predetermined.

based upon the fact and based upon the many promises made to the Jews which have never been fulfilled. Promises which cannot apply to the church such as that they would inherit the earth ... we are not promised that.

we're on the edge of our seats, I got chucked off a forum because I said Trumpy would lose 2020. I am not confident about 2024 either, but let's hope.

God deals with the Gentiles individually but He has always dealt with Israel as a nation. They fell as a nation, they will rise again as a nation.

I believe God has already turned back to Israel ... they have not yet turned back to Him

well he will promise peace and prosperity for all.

It's true, if America goes down we all go down.

I've shared on forums for years that Americans trust way too much on their system of law. Christians always appeal to the courts, since the "Monkey" trial of the 50s, for abortion laws etc. Now we see how the Justice dept. has become an enemy. The only recourse left to the church is prayer ...

I am an outsider who loves America but I think the conservatives greatly over estimate their strength and greatly underestimate the liberals. America is 50/50 and the margin of victory is a squeak. ... and the liberals cheat

America is in danger of dissolving into total anarchy

Tribulation = persecution

thanks for your response ... I do not agree, I've stated my opinion. "have come out of" means [to me] they were in it. "End times" end of this present age, the millennial age is a new age.