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    Doesn't Living Like the Devil After Being Saved Disprove Once Saved Always Saved?

    I would agree with everything you are saying here. Although I do believe in "once saved always saved", I would concur with you that there are some in that camp who distort the gospel with it. Most of these people have been brought up in an evangelical subculture (which I would consider myself...
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    Doesn't Living Like the Devil After Being Saved Disprove Once Saved Always Saved?

    Describing salvation as "grace" is talking about US. WE receive grace, Christ did not receive grace as the sin bearer. Grace does not mean the elimination of law altogether, it's the elimination of OUR debt to the penalty of breaking the Law which Christ paid. But again, let's not keep this...
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    Doesn't Living Like the Devil After Being Saved Disprove Once Saved Always Saved?

    Well that's your opinion. But I see no relationship whatsoever between PSA and the issue of law vs. grace. In any case, as I said to Rewriter we should not be hijacking this thread by starting a debate about PSA here. PSA has no relationship to the issue of whether salvation can be lost which...
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    Doesn't Living Like the Devil After Being Saved Disprove Once Saved Always Saved?

    If you are talking about penal substitutionary atonement it's simply not true that it was some invention of Anselm. He may have been the first to present it in a systemic fashion but the ideas behind it can be found in many of the early church fathers. It's no different than the Trinity which...
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    Doesn't Living Like the Devil After Being Saved Disprove Once Saved Always Saved?

    I did not "dismiss" your argument. I actually rebutted it thoroughly. Other than the first sentence, everything in my long post involved "addressing the merits". And the only reason I brought up hyper dispensationalism at all is because it was quite obvious to me that you didn't come up with...
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    Doesn't Living Like the Devil After Being Saved Disprove Once Saved Always Saved?

    I have not engaged in any ad hominem attacks. I never put any label on you. I simply pointed out that the ideas you are proposing are commonly taught by hyper Dispensationalists. Whether you put that label on yourself I have no idea, but I didn't put it on you. Moreover, calling someone a...
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    Doesn't Living Like the Devil After Being Saved Disprove Once Saved Always Saved?

    There is no such thing as a "kingdom gospel" that is different than the "gospel of grace". I know there are hyper-dispensationalists who teach this but it is utterly unbiblical. Yes, the Jews were under the old covenant law. But that was never the means of their salvation. The point of the...
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    Doesn't Living Like the Devil After Being Saved Disprove Once Saved Always Saved?

    No mention of salvation? "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?" (James 2:14) The word "save" is talking about salvation. One is the root word of the other. And no I am not saying salvation can be nullified...
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    Doesn't Living Like the Devil After Being Saved Disprove Once Saved Always Saved?

    I am not assuming anything. James IS talking about salvation, that's the word he used. He's clearly addressing the abuse of Paul's teaching on salvation by faith alone, he's not disagreeing with it. There is a difference between saying works are the CAUSE of salvation and saying they are the...
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    Doesn't Living Like the Devil After Being Saved Disprove Once Saved Always Saved?

    Yes, salvation is by faith but according to the apostle James there are 2 kinds of faith, a saving faith and a dead faith. A saving faith is evidenced by works. The works do not save, but they demonstrate that faith is real. The problem is too many people think "faith" is merely believing...
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    Does Hebrews 10 say if we willfully sin after being saved there is no more forgiveness?

    Everyone who has become part of the Church is sanctified in some sense even if they are not truly regenerate. The word simply means "set apart". In 1 Cor 7, Paul says that the unbelieving spouses of believers are sanctified: "For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife...
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    Does Hebrews 10 say if we willfully sin after being saved there is no more forgiveness?

    No, it is not talking temporal judgment. The passage says that there is "no more sacrifice for sins" for these people. Christ's sacrifice does not spare believers from "temporal" judgments. Many believers face the various temporal judgments that come upon the nations of this world. Christ's...
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    Does Hebrews 10 say if we willfully sin after being saved there is no more forgiveness?

    Perseverance is not perfection. Even genuine believers continue to battle the flesh. But the point is they do battle it...they fight against it. They sometimes fail, but the Holy Spirit convicts and they repent. When Scripture warns about those who continue to "practice" sin, I believe it's...
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    Does Hebrews 10 say if we willfully sin after being saved there is no more forgiveness?

    No, he is urging them to persevere in faith. He doesn't stipulate whether it's alive or dead because he doesn't know who in his audience has true faith. Scripture often speaks to believers according to their profession. It warns them to persevere in their faith. If they don't persevere...
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    Does Hebrews 10 say if we willfully sin after being saved there is no more forgiveness?

    True, it's not ONLY the act of a moment but it BEGINS at a moment. The subsequent "attitude of a lifetime" demonstrates whether that moment was a genuine conversion or not. Yes, salvation is a process not just a single moment event, but that process has a beginning in time. From God's side of...
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    Does Hebrews 10 say if we willfully sin after being saved there is no more forgiveness?

    It urges Christians to persevere in faith, not "saving faith". Not all faith is saving faith. James 2 talks about a dead faith that can't save. The test of whether faith is real or not is perseverance. He's calling them to perseverance to prove their faith is real. That's the only way to...
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    Does Hebrews 10 say if we willfully sin after being saved there is no more forgiveness?

    I believe Hebrews 10:26 is talking about professing Christians who have made a deliberate choice to refuse repentance and continue living in sin. It's not talking about Christians who stumble or fall into sin. We know that because just two chapters later (Heb 12:1) the author says: "let us...
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    So are gays/lesbians nonelects? How do people become gays/lesbians?

    Sure Jon, because we all know that "looks" are a good indicator of whether someone is teaching the truth! But I suppose only a homosexual would take notice and care what another man looks like. "But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature...
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    So are gays/lesbians nonelects? How do people become gays/lesbians?

    And for those who want to make sure they are not deceived by the false teachers Jon is encouraging everyone to listen to, I would recommend they look into the works of Robert Gagnon professor of New Testament Theology at Houston Baptist University. He has all the scholarly credentials that Jon...
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    So are gays/lesbians nonelects? How do people become gays/lesbians?

    Couldn't agree more. And when I see so many Christians today looking at politicians to define what's moral and acceptable rather than Christ himself, no wonder the church is in such a mess.