An atheist's testimony

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danschance

Guest
#101
#101
DannyC said:
re·li·gion

The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power,esp. a personal God or gods.

That is the first definition from the Oxford English dictionary.

Atheism cannot be a religion by simple comparison of definitions. Atheists hold no belief or worship in a superhuman controlling power, i.e God. Nor do they have any belief system or doctrinal code to follow.

In fact atheism couldn't be further from the definition of religion if it so tried. It involves a lack of belief in a God, and that's it. I'm sure you can find some that add to the core of that but none propose a belief in God or a set of dogma is essential to its definition.

You should really watch your words when comparing the actions of extremist moslems who flew planes into two skyscrapers killing thousands with someone who has made multiple accounts on a christian site. It is idiotic and it's completely tactless.
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You are arguing with Webster"s dictionary, not me. I know atheism is a faith based religion complete with fundie extremists. They try and take the high ground by saying religious people are brain damaged or insane and they are in the same boat as those who believe in God. They do have faith. They try so hard to evangelize us poor Christians that they will open up multiple accounts with multiple identities and genders and different ages. They even open up some accounts pretending to be Christians. Arguing with the closed minds of atheists is a complete waste of time. Only God can make the scales fall from their eyes.

I am done with this thread.
 
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DannyC

Guest
#102
#102
danschance said:
You are arguing with Webster"s dictionary, not me. I know atheism is a faith based religion complete with fundie extremists. They try and take the high ground by saying religious people are brain damaged or insane and they are in the same boat as those who believe in God. They do have faith. They try so hard to evangelize us poor Christians that they will open up multiple accounts with multiple identities and genders and different ages. They even open up some accounts pretending to be Christians. Arguing with the closed minds of atheists is a complete waste of time. Only God can make the scales fall from their eyes.

I am done with this thread.
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I use the Oxford English dictionary and a bit of common sense. I googled Webster's definition of atheism and I did not find the words 'Dawkins is a messiah' like the other post on another thread you made nor did I find anything which links it to Oxford English dictionary's definition of religion or even Webster's own definition of religion.

Your huge leap from definitions is a straw man and if you took the time to compare definitions you would find that Webster's definition of atheism contradicts itself.

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

The first claims disbelief yet the second claims they have a doctrine. A doctrine is a set of beliefs. Considering atheism relies on one lack of belief those two definitions are incompatible and therefore I discredit those definitions in light of a more reliable non-contradictory source i.e Oxford English dictionary. Even so I'm sure the Webster dictionary is some what reliable and is close to the Oxford English dictionary, but your leaps of definitions are so far removed from the actual definitions they are laughable.

I also find your previous comparision to a troll setting up multiple accounts on a christian website to terrorist bombings to be crazy.

You make the claim atheists think that believers in God are insane or brain damaged, I do not think that in the slightest and that generalization is quite funny because you then claim all atheists are close-minded. So not only do you condemn the so called generalization of believers which is not true you then claim all atheists are close-minded.
 
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GodisGlorious1

Guest
#103
#103
"I'll need to verify such things actually happen, before I can accept miraculous claims on testimony alone."

Turn that statement around and it might be more beneficial

"I'll accept miraculous claims on testimony alone and this will lead to God showing me that such things actually happen."

Where the mind goes the man follows.

I think being willing to be willing to give up our limiting beliefs and being willing to be willing to believe the things of God is a first step in letting go of what we believe and in coming to believe the things of God. I think being willing to come to know God and to let Him work in our lives is important. If I am not willing to be willing I guess I will always cling to my current/old beliefs and in that way I keep my world small and I will possibly keep God out of it.

It is my unbelief that blocks a miracle. So I cry out "Lord undo my unbelief". In the beginning of my walk with God I had to be willing to be willing to accept that maybe everything I believed before was wrong...in my case everything I believed before certainly wasn't useful and didn't bring me peace. Lord open our mind, open our eyes, open our ears, open our heart to the Truth of you.

I guess the question is can we take off our old clothes long enough try on a new outfit and will we find the new clothes a truer fit?


 
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danschance

Guest
#104
#104
DannyC said:
I use the Oxford English dictionary and a bit of common sense. I googled Webster's definition of atheism and I did not find the words 'Dawkins is a messiah' like the other post on another thread you made nor did I find anything which links it to Oxford English dictionary's definition of religion or even Webster's own definition of religion.

Your huge leap from definitions is a straw man and if you took the time to compare definitions you would find that Webster's definition of atheism contradicts itself.

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

The first claims disbelief yet the second claims they have a doctrine. A doctrine is a set of beliefs. Considering atheism relies on one lack of belief those two definitions are incompatible and therefore I discredit those definitions in light of a more reliable non-contradictory source i.e Oxford English dictionary. Even so I'm sure the Webster dictionary is some what reliable and is close to the Oxford English dictionary, but your leaps of definitions are so far removed from the actual definitions they are laughable.

I also find your previous comparision to a troll setting up multiple accounts on a christian website to terrorist bombings to be crazy.

You make the claim atheists think that believers in God are insane or brain damaged, I do not think that in the slightest and that generalization is quite funny because you then claim all atheists are close-minded. So not only do you condemn the so called generalization of believers which is not true you then claim all atheists are close-minded.
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It is not a straw man argument if I quote real sources and real facts that state clearly what I contend. Maybe you could look up the definition of a straw man argument. I am not sure you know what that means.

From Atheism | Define Atheism at Dictionary.com

1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

From the site above and it is the first item when I searched for "define atheism".
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If an atheist states that there is no god or diety of any kind, that is a belief. When you put a key in the ignition of a car and start the engine, you would be surprised if nothing happened because you have a belief that turning the key would start the engine. A know a man who as a boy jumped off the porch toward his dad, who had open arms and said "Jump, I will catch you!" but as the Dad moved out of the way and let his son hit the ground. Then his dad said "Never trust anyone again because they all lie." The boy was upset, angry and hurt because he believed his Dad would catch him.

Atheism states their is no god or deity. Now here is the proof that this is a belief, even if you are not willing to admit it. For an Atheist to state this, he would have to know everything to be able to know something does not exist. For example: If I say I have nothing in a shoe box but won't show you the inside, you do not know if it is there or not (agnosticism). You may trust me and BELIEVE nothing is there, but you have no proof. Same is true for atheism even if you disagree, even if you can get a thousand definitions saying it is not a belief. The only logical conclusion to make is "I don't know".

Would you show me where I stated or implied atheists are insane? I have never made such broad brush claims of any group of people. Atheists are not insane. They are in need of finding Jesus, like everyone else on the planet. I try to not be judgmental, harsh or call other people names. I believe the vast majority of atheists come her not to debate nor learn a thing. They come here to debate, argue, troll and even evangelize Christians to their beliefs. You want proof? This site is not a scientific forum, an atheist forum, an agnostic forum, an evolution forum, a paleontology forum, or a debate forum. It is for the discussion of Christian topics. So why are atheists here?

Now I did post something about one individual who apparently opened up many accounts under different names, ages, genders and even pretended to be various Christians and atheists of differing ages and genders. I am not a moderator and do not know this as fact. Another Christian brother made that claim first, before I did. This person maybe insane or not, who knows? His behavior certainly is unusual and not like many other Atheists.

I am here only to defend and clarify my last post. Even so I will leave you one thought. The bible says we can not come to God except by faith, not fact. Sure, I think there are arguments that point to God but none of them can ever be repeated in a lab or precipitated from a solution. If you really want to wipe out Christianity, your best bet would be to try to prove undeniably that God exists because then you have also disproved other the bible. To come on a Christian forum and debate science vs. faith is like comparing apples to oranges, only the gulf between fact and faith is far wider than a comparison of apples to oranges. There is no need to respond to this post, as I am done and moving on.




 
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Phillipy

Guest
#105
#105
danschance said:
"1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

From the site above and it is the first item when I searched for "define atheism".


If an atheist states that there is no god or diety of any kind, that is a belief. When you put a key in the ignition of a car and start the engine, you would be surprised if nothing happened because you have a belief that turning the key would start the engine. A know a man who as a boy jumped off the porch toward his dad, who had open arms and said "Jump, I will catch you!" but as the Dad moved out of the way and let his son hit the ground. Then his dad said "Never trust anyone again because they all lie." The boy was upset, angry and hurt because he believed his Dad would catch him.

Atheism states their is no god or deity. Now here is the proof that this is a belief, even if you are not willing to admit it. For an Atheist to state this, he would have to know everything to be able to know something does not exist. For example: If I say I have nothing in a shoe box but won't show you the inside, you do not know if it is there or not (agnosticism). You may trust me and BELIEVE nothing is there, but you have no proof. Same is true for atheism even if you disagree, even if you can get a thousand definitions saying it is not a belief. The only logical conclusion to make is "I don't know".
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Hey, you emboldened the first usage of the word, but then seemed to ignore the second usage of the word and define atheists who call themselves atheists because of the second definition 'agnostics' instead of atheists; I totally agree that people who are atheists because of the first definition are unreasonable and believe something unknowable on faith, but isn't it fine when agnostics call themselves atheists because of that second definition?

Like, "If an atheist states that there is no god or diety of any kind, that is a belief."
That was completely right, because it had that 'if', but the next paragraph you spoke more all-encompassingly;
"Atheism states their is no god or deity."
I guess I'm only poking at the semantics, but you were only referring to definition#1 atheism (doctrine) there, not #2 atheism (disbelief), yus?

I like to tell #1 atheists that they are silly and dogmatically believing the unknowable, but I always make an exception for #2 atheists, agnostics.
 
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DannyC

Guest
#106
#106
danschance said:
It is not a straw man argument if I quote real sources and real facts that state clearly what I contend. Maybe you could look up the definition of a straw man argument. I am not sure you know what that means.

From Atheism | Define Atheism at Dictionary.com



If an atheist states that there is no god or diety of any kind, that is a belief. When you put a key in the ignition of a car and start the engine, you would be surprised if nothing happened because you have a belief that turning the key would start the engine. A know a man who as a boy jumped off the porch toward his dad, who had open arms and said "Jump, I will catch you!" but as the Dad moved out of the way and let his son hit the ground. Then his dad said "Never trust anyone again because they all lie." The boy was upset, angry and hurt because he believed his Dad would catch him.

Atheism states their is no god or deity. Now here is the proof that this is a belief, even if you are not willing to admit it. For an Atheist to state this, he would have to know everything to be able to know something does not exist. For example: If I say I have nothing in a shoe box but won't show you the inside, you do not know if it is there or not (agnosticism). You may trust me and BELIEVE nothing is there, but you have no proof. Same is true for atheism even if you disagree, even if you can get a thousand definitions saying it is not a belief. The only logical conclusion to make is "I don't know".

Would you show me where I stated or implied atheists are insane? I have never made such broad brush claims of any group of people. Atheists are not insane. They are in need of finding Jesus, like everyone else on the planet. I try to not be judgmental, harsh or call other people names. I believe the vast majority of atheists come her not to debate nor learn a thing. They come here to debate, argue, troll and even evangelize Christians to their beliefs. You want proof? This site is not a scientific forum, an atheist forum, an agnostic forum, an evolution forum, a paleontology forum, or a debate forum. It is for the discussion of Christian topics. So why are atheists here?

Now I did post something about one individual who apparently opened up many accounts under different names, ages, genders and even pretended to be various Christians and atheists of differing ages and genders. I am not a moderator and do not know this as fact. Another Christian brother made that claim first, before I did. This person maybe insane or not, who knows? His behavior certainly is unusual and not like many other Atheists.

I am here only to defend and clarify my last post. Even so I will leave you one thought. The bible says we can not come to God except by faith, not fact. Sure, I think there are arguments that point to God but none of them can ever be repeated in a lab or precipitated from a solution. If you really want to wipe out Christianity, your best bet would be to try to prove undeniably that God exists because then you have also disproved other the bible. To come on a Christian forum and debate science vs. faith is like comparing apples to oranges, only the gulf between fact and faith is far wider than a comparison of apples to oranges. There is no need to respond to this post, as I am done and moving on.
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Like I already said, multiple times to the reply of sheer ignorance. I don't make the statement there is no God. I don't believe in God. Very simple. I have a lack of belief in God not that I assert there is no God.

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

That is the Oxford English dictionaries definition of Atheism. Now do I have to explain that lack of belief is not a belief system? I have already explained this before. Your straw man is the fact you reject all other definitions of atheism construct your own definition and then dismantle the definition in order to prove your argument to be valid. A straw man argument. It is a weak argument.

I may be an agnostic atheist, but it follows accordingly with the definitions of atheism and not agnosticism. Not your weak straw man.If you are going to reply to me, read what I write, I did not say you called all atheists insane.

You wrote ' They try and take the high ground by saying religious people are brain damaged or insane and they are in the same boat as those who believe in God. ' and ' Arguing with the closed minds of atheists is a complete waste of time.'

Then I replied ' You make the claim atheists think that believers in God are insane or brain damaged, I do not think that in the slightest and that generalization is quite funny because you then claim all atheists are close-minded. So not only do you condemn the so called generalization of believers which is not true you then claim all atheists are close-minded. '

Very simple, you didn't read what I wrote or misread it. Do you see the irony in your post?

You made the comparision between fundamentalist terrorist bombings and a troll account.
 
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livingepistle

Guest
#107
#107
This ancient text speaks truth concerning human psychology: Proverbs 3:27, "as a man thinks in his heart, so is he."

Sometimes, influencing the beliefs of an individual (s) is to not resist or comply but to remain neutral; some things in nature and some beliefs formed within the minds of some individuals become tempered by resistance or external pressure.

In nature, the diamond in the depths of a volcano purifies the longer it remains under pressure and extreme heat. Like the diamond, some individual beliefs are tempered and become more resistant or resilient with opposition: When pressure or resistance is no longer a factor, the substance, as a belief will become inert.

“My view”: Respect and love the person and offer no resistance to the belief. When there is resistance to a belief or ideology, it is an indication that a successful invasion has occurred to the resistor. Just as the ideology of socialism or communism spreads and becomes more resilient with opposition. "I" notice that the same can apply when considering spiritual beliefs and ideologies.

All comments concerning my view of this thread are welcome:
Livingepitstle
 
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aprilandkeion

Guest
#108
#108
you will not know God until you accepted him on your heart...
 
T_Laurich

T_Laurich

Senior Member
#109
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
122
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#109
The only thing I personally don't understand, Why must "atheists" talk to Christians like we do not have the same 12 watts of power functionality in our brain. Or our synapses skipped the left side of our brain to dwell only in the right...

What I am getting at: just trying to make it sound intellectual so maybe some atheists will take my question into consideration and even maybe debate (not bicker or fight which I see majority of you do). Why do you talk to Christians as if we are less intelligent. 2/5 scientists this includes but not limited too physicists, astronomers, nuclear engineers, and quantum trapping engineers (what my schooling is going to be based in). We are non-the-less human then yourself. In fact I am willing to place money that a Christian is just as likely from birth to be a mensa member as an atheist... So why???
 
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Phillipy

Guest
#110
#110
T_Laurich said:
The only thing I personally don't understand, Why must "atheists" talk to Christians like we do not have the same 12 watts of power functionality in our brain. Or our synapses skipped the left side of our brain to dwell only in the right...

What I am getting at: just trying to make it sound intellectual so maybe some atheists will take my question into consideration and even maybe debate (not bicker or fight which I see majority of you do). Why do you talk to Christians as if we are less intelligent. 2/5 scientists this includes but not limited too physicists, astronomers, nuclear engineers, and quantum trapping engineers (what my schooling is going to be based in). We are non-the-less human then yourself. In fact I am willing to place money that a Christian is just as likely from birth to be a mensa member as an atheist... So why???
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Hiiii I'm not an atheist but I think I can give an answer, as I'm an evolutionist and I spend lots of my time trying to teach science to young Earth creationists. I think perhaps it's not 'Christians' that scientists and atheists seem to treat as intellectual inferiors, but specifically young Earth creationists who act so over-confidently that scientists are useless idiots and are completely mistaken about the history of life and the universe.
So it's not that atheists and Christian scientists are treating believers as fools, but rather people who think they know better than all the scientists in the world, yet aren't themselves familiar with the science.
(I don't mean I personally think creationists are fools, just mislead. But that could be a good answer to your question :) )
 
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wit2Christlv

Guest
#111
#111
My advise to you is try to prove that God isnt real. Seek Him and educate yourself by reading the Bible etc. There was a scientist that tryed proving that God wasnt real and now he is a true believer. Seek and you will find. God bless you on your journey.
 
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FORHISGLORY

Guest
#112
#112
To disprove God is impossible ! Because the evidence of God is always before us. "The heavens declare His glory". In addition, you have to deny your own conscience to advocate there isn't a God. As Paul says in Romans chapter one, you surpress the truth. Thirdly, you deny not only creation and your conscience, but you deny the Word of God. You might want to check with Josh McDowell or C.S.Lewis. They were both atheists. They both became Christians by the grace of God.
 
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Phillipy

Guest
#113
#113
FORHISGLORY said:
you have to deny your own conscience to advocate there isn't a God.
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Hey, what did you mean by that bit?
(I know plenty of atheists that are moral people, so I don't see how they are out of touch with their conscience)
 
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Truthraines

Guest
#114
#114
God is not the author of confusion. If you are truly here to "find" God, then go after him holding nothing back. Talk to him. He does talk back. Maybe not verbally, but he speaks through dreams, visions, scripture, people, he's limitless! But you will honestly never find him with the attitude that you have towards him right now. Constantly contracting him is equal to rejecting him, And he will NOT force himself on you. He wants you to believe, but you have free choice and that's why it's so great. He wants you to be in heaven with him for eternity and to have no more doubts about him, but the only way that happens is if your heart accepts him. As crAzy and illogical as it all may sound, one day we will know for certain, but there will be no more second chances for those he refused to believe. Would you rather go your whole life wondering what the truth is only to find out you were wrong and you cannot go back. Seriously, what are you gonna do if it IS true? It will be too late!! Only the ones who choose him can have everlasting life. I don't know what your theory is about the afterlife but if you don't believe in heaven and hell then you must believe that when we die we just cease to exist and it's all just black. There is LIFE in Christ!!!! You don't win if you are right, there's no prize to believe in, no hope. But if your wrong, you lose big, you lose for eternity. Are you willing to take that chance? I'll be praying for a revelation for your soul. I would love to sing praises with with you in heaven one day and know that Satan was defeated when happyluke gave into a God he couldn't see!
 
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MrMalby

Guest
#115
#115
HappyLuke said:
*I meant "in my opinion" when I said "to me". Not like... my suffering
"Only the morally blind forces of evolution would allow so much unnecessary suffering, to me. But I could be wrong"
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So why Luke, do you place any trust whatsoever in your own moral judgements ?
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#116
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,958
113
#116
I was an atheist for 10 years. It would be fair to say I believed in nothing.

But then I got caught in the middle of a REAL REVIVAL. I am not talking about a tent meeting or a church evangelistic event, but people who were caught in the hippie movement, drugs and sin and God just revealed himself and they got saved.

I started hanging out with these people. I knew they knew what they believed was true. But I did NOT believe it!

But let me ask you a question- "Why would an atheist hang around with a Christian or on a Christian forum, anyway?"

Well, it could be to harass and to try and convert people to their belief system.

Or it could be a hunger for God, put there by the Holy Spirit. That was my story. I was hungry and didn't even know I was starving to death.

Jesus Christ met me and saved me in a supernatural way. He spoke to me out of my darkness. I cannot prove this, but my life is my testimony. I went from darkness and sin to following the risen Saviour. He put my feet on solid ground and changed me totally. I got married, had 4 wonderful children, became a teacher, and I am now a chaplain.

So my prayer, after all this discussion, is that the OP is really here because he does want to be convinced Jesus is real. I pray God will reveal himself, which seems to be the way most atheists are saved. But blessed are they that have not seen and believed.

Praying for you, Bro!

PS. I did loads of LSD in the 70's and had some very drastic visions of hell. They did not get me scared and saved. I do not think you can compare the high of a psychedelic drug with the mystic experience of knowing the risen Saviour and Creator of the universe.
 
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