“CHRISTIANS” ATTACK CATHOLICS

[DaveTheRave]

I realise now that that conversation has already taken place oops

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I did. The population of Northern Ireland is 1.811 million people. The population of the world is 7.125 billion people. See the problem? Northern Ireland doesn't mirror the entire world. Not that it matters because even the situation there isn't as he asserted (see: http://christianchat.com/christian-...ristiansa-attack-catholics-2.html#post1757721)

Glad you read the thread, even after posting, so you know what's going on in this discussion.

 

[Angelmommie]

It is so strange..until I came on CC I did not even realize that there was still a "war" raging between the diff denominations..(well except that crazy church down south but that is not about faith based things, they are all about gaining money)..but i have definitely had my bubble burst on here..I feel like I have stepped back a couple decades...

 

[skipp]

We keep fighting among ourselves. Meanwhile secularism becomes more and more widespread and record numbers of young people are leaving the faith. But let's ignore that and keep acting like other Christian denominations are our biggest enemy.

 

[jkalyna]

We keep fighting among ourselves. Meanwhile secularism becomes more and more widespread and record numbers of young people are leaving the faith. But let's ignore that and keep acting like other Christian denominations are our biggest enemy.

The word says, in the last days there shall be a falling away. This sounds like it. Dislike, discord, division, demonic*activity*of hatred, and not the fruits of the HOly Spirit, sounds like falling away from the faith, but in a denomination of any sort. No believer should act like this, there's a saying, don't talk about*politics*news, and religion, there's always a disagreement of the news, politics and religion. If you say look at the past history of them Catholic Church, it's not correct. The same thing could be said of Paul prior called Saul who murdered christians, pulled them out of churches, sent them to the Lion's den. If you look at his history, then why believe in the bible, NT. He wrote most of the New Testament. He's past was extremely evil. I remember this when I was a teen. I remember it well and clear today. IT was a Saturday, and we were on the corner waiting for the red light to change. A father was with his son, and they were holding a book, that said, Catechism class. The boy told his father what he learned today about Jesus, as we stood there together on that corner, his Father said, son, you need to forgive, this is what Jesus said. He was bringing him home from*catechism, school. There is no one right church. It seems to me, the more the days go by, the more people are making their own bibles, twisting things, rewriting things, or mocking other people's things, or beliefs. If it teaches Christ, that is what the bible said, "if they be for us, then they are not against us." There are things I don't agree with that religion. WE pray only to one father who is God, and only Jesus is the one who was sacrificed, and it is only him that stands in the gap, between us. The more this talk goes on, the more good I think it does, because people could reply with love, and take a stand not on either side, but on the right side which is show love. What a way, no one will want to know what it's all about by showing*prejudice*and hate towards another. Jesus was on the beach grilling fish, for breakfast, when those fishermen, *were told cast your net onto the other side. It is like this. YOu partake of the good, the meat of the word, or the food, of the fish, and throw away the bones, which are nothing. I will say I"m*Pentecostal, and the stuff that happened in this denomination, I won't even say. Tongue talking, then tongue lashing, whipping put downs, a double minded person is unstable in all their ways, book of James. THe bottom line is everyone is free to their posts, and*opinions, just as this one is, I don't like bashing of any culture, religion, or person. YOu will know them by their fruits. The whole 9 of them. This is just showing what you said, is correct, the falling away, has already arrived, don't you think so, kids chopping their parents heads off, and what is really going on in this world, *Other denominations, allow gay teachers, and preachers, after the sermon, go home with your same gender partner, and don't bother reading the bible what it says about it. So where is the correct church. I will go there, and am going there now. In prayer. Jesus and me. The holy spirit makes three. REmember this what Christ said. "Pray least you fall into temptation." Temptations of animosity, and anger, hatred, and the rest.*

 

[Atwood]

Jesus says that those who take communion have eternal life.
.

The Lord Jesus never said any such thing.
More attempted salvation by works.

 

[Atwood]

It is so strange..until I came on CC I did not even realize that there was still a "war" raging between the diff denominations...

The war is not between denominations per se, but over the basic beliefs of Christianity, which cut across denominations.

As I read History:
There used to be big disputes between denominations on non-essentials, like church government, what constitutes water baptism, etc. But then especially after WWI the war was within denominations, modernists vs fundamentalists (those who held to the basics like Trinity). So it came to pass that Bible-believers in the various denominations had more in common with each other & the modernists in different denominations were buddies. And this led to splits with Bible-believers & modernists separating, with struggle over the church property. The major outcome of this was the triumph of modernism in most mainline denominations, followed by decline in membership. The only major denomination I know of where the struggle continues is in the Southern Baptists where the conservatives had a resurgence, but so called "moderates" (unbelievers playing church) continued in connection, and they have a mixed multitude with formally conservative leadership.

As to the RCC, the liberals there IMHO also largely won with Vatican II & its outcome. Now the prots are separated brethren, & the RCC became more tolerant, even with Jews & Muslims. Take the SCOTUS with its long term now RCC majority; how many of them really believe the fundamentals of the RCC historically? We saw a Kennedy "annul" a long marriage with RCC approval; actually a divorce, but they don't want to call it that. So then they were living in fornication, having sex and producing children, though theillogically they were never married! all this time though married with a mass & proper ceremony.

The War here is not primarily denominational. The War is between those who believe the basics of Christianity and those who deny it. This war cuts across denominations and non-denominations. We have persons who affirm justification & salvation by faith and that the Bible is uniquely God's word (as a document on earth available to men in general). The very way to get saved is in dispute. This is not to be smoothed over with a "Tut, tut, we are all Christians." No, if a man trust not Christ as only & sufficient Savior; if a man deny salvation by trusting the Lord Jesus (apart from works), He is no Christian, but a faker, and a source of poison, an anathema -- he has espoused a gospel which is no gospel.

We aren't debating tiddlywinks here. We aren't debating things like whether women can speak in church here, whether to meet on Sunday or Saturday, whether to sprinkle or dunk, how many points of the Calvinist TULIP are correct; this is the heart of the gospel. Eternal life is at stake.

So yumsy-wumsy-sugar-plumsy is not the right approach, though believers must love even their opponents. But it is no love to cuddle them to the Lake of Fire for denying that
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The Lord Jesus never said any such thing.
More attempted salvation by works.

John 6:54

" Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. "

 

[oldernotwiser]

Re: PAPISTS KILLED/MURDERED MANY

A poor bloke was walking down the street in Belfast one day, minding his own business, when a stranger approached him with a mask on & a .45 in his hand. He pointed the .45 at the bloke & said:

"Are you a protestant or a catholic?"
The bloke thought for a moment, then replied: "I'm Jewish."
The gunman responded, "Ah, but are you a protestant Jew or a catholic Jew?"

another version ending with:
"and sure and i'm the luckiest arab in all of ireland."

 

[notuptome]

Christians should take place in some of those sacraments to, like communion for instance.
Jesus says that those who take communion have eternal life.

Close but not quite. The elements in the communion convey no special merits toward salvation. Those who receive communion with the Lord are already His and the communion time is a time to recall what Christ has done to purchase salvation for all who trust Him to save them from their sins.

Jesus identifies His blood as the blood of the NT. Jesus identifies Himself as the manna that came down from heaven that if we receive of Him we shall not see death but inherit eternal life.

Roman Catholicism is diabolically wrong on the matter of salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[David_1]

Or would you share the Lord with love and pray for them that they will find it someday? Can you still love them?

You know, it's been a long time since I've seen that expression of faith from Christians. Early 1980s maybe was the last time. When I was a kid.

Now it's just Tea Bagging Koch Industries rallies that seem to be the outward expression of a lot of Christians. Quite the opposite of what you have posted there.

I just realised. Yep, early 1980s, before the Reagan Era Republicans really began manipulating Christians as a political resource.

 

[jb]

You should have seen Northern Ireland a few decades ago

BBC - History - The Troubles

I have, as I have lived through ALL of it!

Actually, sectarian bigotry is still VERY prevelant in the North of Ireland today, especially amongst Protestants!

During the time of the "troubles" quite a few RCs were murdered, simply because they were RCs, one example of this extreme brutality was carried out by "The Shankill Butchers," (they belonged to the UVF, a "loyalist" terrorist organisation) they simply killed RCs by butchering them, they also happened to butcher the odd Protestant as well.

From my own experience over that time I took the odd beating because I was mistakenly taken for an RC, when in actual fact I was brought up as a Protestant (Methodist).

Unfortunately RC bashing is quite prevalent on CC by "Christians" who simply disagree with non essential RC doctrine, and it comes out of a bigoted sectarian heart, it is a shame that the Administrators on CC permit this to go unchecked!

Sectarian bigotry destroys the unity of the Body of Christ like nothing else, and Paul says that such who do are carnal immature spiritual babes! 1Cor 3v1-8

 

[maxwel]

I have, as I have lived through ALL of it!

Actually, sectarian bigotry is still VERY prevelant in the North of Ireland today, especially amongst Protestants!

During the time of the "troubles" quite a few RCs were murdered, simply because they were RCs, one example of this extreme brutality was carried out by "The Shankill Butchers," (they belonged to the UVF, a "loyalist" terrorist organisation) they simply killed RCs by butchering them, they also happened to butcher the odd Protestant as well.

From my own experience over that time I took the odd beating because I was mistakenly taken for an RC, when in actual fact I was brought up as a Protestant (Methodist).

Unfortunately RC bashing is quite prevalent on CC by "Christians" who simply disagree with non essential RC doctrine, and it comes out of a bigoted sectarian heart, it is a shame that the Administrators on CC permit this to go unchecked!

Sectarian bigotry destroys the unity of the Body of Christ like nothing else, and Paul says that such who do are carnal immature spiritual babes! 1Cor 3v1-8

Since the RCC teaches essentially a works-based gospel, there is much reasonable debate about whether or not Catholics are in the body of Christ at all. And this IS the exact point of view of the site administrator.

I do believe that professing Catholics can be saved, and that "professing" protestants can be lost... however, in a church like the RCC where the gospel is obfuscated by works, legalism, and all manner of ritual... it seems like a bit of an uphill swim for them to find a clear rendition of the gospel to believe in.

 

[skipp]

There's quite a few Baptist churches in my area with a works-based, legalistic version of the Gospel. These same Baptists look down on the RCC without realizing just how similar they are.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Re: PAPISTS KILL/MURDER MANY

First time I haven't minded the Large Font of Atwood.

One of the posts on this thread called it a religion that likes peace, nonviolence, benevolence.

They apologized to Israel for their involvement in the holocust but never to protestants... have they?

My whole family's Catholic, so stuff like this stinks.

The Original Foxes Book of Martyrs was taken over and re-written to take a lot of this Protestant killing out of the original.

So a few nuts, that I don't agree with - like Westboro church, are acting up and using horns to yell out disagreements.
Wow - what a comparison to this ........

One might focus on the Crusades & the Inquisition, though the below doesn't focus exactly there.
Below is a quote from David A. Plaisted
ESTIMATES OF THE NUMBER KILLED BY THE PAPACY IN THE MIDDLE AGES AND LATER,
2006.

Quoting from Plaisted:


the figure of 50 million killed by the Papacy in Europe. . . . it is best to restrict the computation to massacres listed, for example, by Brownlee and others.

The time period for the figure of 45 million has now been reasonably established, but not the place. For this, Burton [Burton, Robert, Martyrs in flames: or, the history of Popery, Bettesworth and Batley, London, 1729] lists in the table of contents the following persecutions:

Piedmont, France, Orange, Bohemia, Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Flanders, Scotland, Ireland, and England.

This seems to be the most exhaustive list of persecutions of any of the sources examined, indicating the areas in which the principal persecutions took place.
In fact, Buck [Buck, Charles, A Theological Dictionary, containing Definitions of All Religious Terms; ..., Philadelphia, Thomas Cowperthwait & Co., 1838, article Persecution ] writes, speaking of the time after the Protestant Reformation,

The inquisition, which was established in the twelfth century against the Waldenses ... was now more effectually set to work. Terrible persecutions were carried on in various parts of Germany, and even in Bohemia, which continued about thirty years, and the blood of the saints was said to flow like rivers of water. The countries of Poland, Lithuania, and Hungary, were in a similar manner deluged with Protestant blood [p. 333].

This suggests that the principal areas of persecution included Germany, Bohemia, Poland, Lithuania, and Hungary. Also, Bennet [Bennet, Benjamin, Several discourses against popery, Lawrence and Midwinter, London, 1714, p. 457] writes

Germany, Bohemia, Poland, Lithuania &c. have in their turns been deluged in blood.

Thus the time and place of the major persecutions contributing to the 50 million figure have been determined with reasonable confidence. It remains to estimate numbers killed in each of these persecutions and show that they add up to 50 million. Although it is not yet possible to give a full accounting, one can assign reasonable totals to these persecutions that do add up to 50 million.

A large portion of the figure of 45 million is covered by the thirty years war, the conflict in Bohemia, the civil wars and persecutions in France, and 15 million killed from 1518 to 1548. Now, the thirty years war lasted from 1618 to 1648 and estimates for those killed in this conflict range up to 14 million.

The thirty years war started when Ferdinand II (1578-1648) tried to suppress Protestantism in the Holy Roman Empire. As for where Ferdinand II got his motivation, Emperor Ferdinand II, of the House of Hapsburg, had been educated by the Jesuits; and with their help undertook to suppress Protestantism. (Halley, p. 792) The sons and daughters of the rich and noble they [the Jesuits] sought by every means to bring under their influence, and they were soon the favorite confessors in the imperial court and in many of the royal courts of Europe. . It was their policy to instill into their minds [the rich and the noble] an undying hatred of every form of opposition to the Catholic faith. When they had once molded a ruler to their will and made him the subservient instrument of their policy, they were ever at his side dictating to him the measures to be employed for the eradication of heresy and the complete reformation of his realm according to the Jesuit ideal, and they were ever ready, with full papal authority, to conduct inquisitorial work. [Newman, pp. 374-375]

Lindsay [A History of the Reformation, Charles Scribner s Sons, New York, 1922, pp. 607-608] writes,

Many Romanist Princes had no wish to persecute, still less to see their provinces depopulated by banishment. Toleration of Protestants they [the Jesuits] represented to be the unpardonable sin. They succeeded in many cases in inducing Romanist rulers to withdraw the protection they had hitherto accorded to their Protestant subjects . The League was the symbol in France of this Counter-Reformation. they [the Jesuits] were the restless and ruthless organizers of the Holy League.

Clarke [Clarke, Samuel, A looking-glass for persecutors, London, Printed for W. Miller, 1674, p. 52] writes,

The emperor Ferdinand the second, was a great Persecutor of the Protestants in Bohemia and Germany, who after his victory over Frederick, Prince Palatine, and the Bohemian States, made it his work to root out the Protestant Religion in those Countries, and turned them into a very shambles of Blood, sparing neither Age, Sex, nor Rank that refused to abjure the Truth. But while he was in his full Career, God brought in against him a contemptible people [the Swedes] under whose swords most of those bloody wretches fell; who were the Bohemian scourges, so that much of Germany, and of the Emperors Country was a very Aceldama, a Field of Blood.

A high estimate for the Thirty Years War is that the population of Germany was reduced from 20 million to 7 million, implying 13 million killed [Cushing B. Hassell, History of the Church of God, Chapter XVII]; actually the population should have increased by about 3 million during this time, so we can estimate 16 million killed. Ploetz [Epitome of Ancient, Medieval, and Modern History, 1884, p. 312] writes of the Terrible ravages committed by the bands of Wallenstein in Germany in 1632 in Saxony. Also, in 1648, Ploetz [p. 315] writes

Terrible condition of Germany. Irreparable losses of men and wealth. Reduction of population; increase of poverty; retrogradation in all ranks.

The war extended to other areas of Europe, and there was also a tremendous population loss there, so it would not be unreasonable to estimate 18 million killed altogether. In fact, one edition of Halley s Bible Handbook states that estimates for this war reach as high as 20 million:

 

[maxwel]

There's quite a few Baptist churches in my area with a works-based, legalistic version of the Gospel. These same Baptists look down on the RCC without realizing just how similar they are.

I agree, wrong is wrong.

But deflection onto another party still doesn't solve the longstanding issues with the RCC.

However, none of that is even what this thread is about.

The thread is about a very small group of idiots with megaphones trespassing and causing a disturbance.
We found a solid news source showing this really happened, and it IS genuinely obnoxious,
but it hardly constitutes some kind of major attack by Protestants upon Catholics.

 

[jb]

Since the RCC teaches essentially a works-based gospel...

Any of the the Masses I have been to have taught that one is saved by faith in Christ, and that resultant good works should flow from that faith! James 2

Salvation by works has been taught in NONE of them!

The Protestant church is filled with just as much ritualism as the RC church, so you obviously like to regurgitate the old "Reformation Theology" argument without any thought about it!

God gave you a mind, try using it and not going down the "carnal immature spiritual babe" route!

 

[maxwel]

Any of the the Masses I have been to have taught that one is saved by faith in Christ, and that resultant good works should flow from that faith! James 2

Salvation by works has been taught in NONE of them!

The Protestant church is filled with just as much ritualism as the RC church, so you obviously like to regurgitate the old "Reformation Theology" argument without any thought about it!

God gave you a mind, try using it and not going down the "carnal immature spiritual babe" route!

Lovely ad hominem attack.
Always an endearing way to make a point.
: )


So, let me try to get this straight... apparently I've misunderstood everything.

For a Catholic to have salvation, and go to heaven... all that's required is faith in Christ?

You don't need to be baptized?
You don't need to attend mass?
You don't need to take the Eucharist?
You don't need to go to confession?
You don't need to talk to any priests?
You don't need to adhere to any rules, ordinances, bylaws, creeds, commands or dictums?
You don't need to be part of the Catholic Church, or have any affiliation with it?

You don't need any of the above things to have salvation, and go to heaven?
All you need is to have faith in Christ?

 

[ThomistColin]

You don't need to be baptized?
You don't need to attend mass?
You don't need to take the Eucharist?
You don't need to go to confession?
You don't need to talk to any priests?
You don't need to adhere to any rules, ordinances, bylaws, creeds, commands or dictums?
You don't need to be part of the Catholic Church, or have any affiliation with it?

You don't need any of the above things to have salvation, and go to heaven?
All you need is to have faith in Christ?

1. You should be baptized and seek baptism, for this is what Christ called for us to do and have done to us.
2. You should take the Eucharist and share in the Body of Christ (but it is not required for salvation).
3. You should go to confession, but you MUST confess your sins to God (not a one and done thing).
4. Of course you don't ever need to talk to a Priest to be saved...only the High Priest, Christ.
5. You do not believe that Catholic Church is the One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, why should I expect you to follow them...Follow Christ wherever He leads.
6. You do not need to be a Catholic to be saved, only a Christian. (Btw that is Catholic dogma).

 

[Human]

Since the RCC teaches essentially a works-based gospel, there is much reasonable debate about whether or not Catholics are in the body of Christ at all. And this IS the exact point of view of the site administrator.

I do believe that professing Catholics can be saved, and that "professing" protestants can be lost... however, in a church like the RCC where the gospel is obfuscated by works, legalism, and all manner of ritual... it seems like a bit of an uphill swim for them to find a clear rendition of the gospel to believe in.

As an academic intellectualisation, perhaps Roman Catholics might be considered legalists, but in my experience, devout Catholics (and I don't mean 'go to church every Sunday' Catholics, I mean 'love people regardless of label' Catholics), are some of the most progressive and inclusive minded people I've ever come across.