1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31
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Keep this in the fore front of our minds, and thus have the mind of Christ:
If you are washed in His Blood and Born Again by the Spirit of God, then we are FAMILY and we are commanded to Love one another.
Thus the Rules set forth by our Lord:
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Let us take Refuge in His Word - It is Flawless - AMEN
If you are washed in His Blood and Born Again by the Spirit of God, then we are FAMILY and we are commanded to Love one another.
Thus the Rules set forth by our Lord:
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Let us take Refuge in His Word - It is Flawless - AMEN
Okay, here it is. It's four pages long. It was written by a lady on a Christian web site that no longer exists. I obtained a copy to share with her permission. She called it "Israel - A Fulfillment in Prophecy. I called it, "The Fig Tree Prophecy."
I should start a new topic on Christian Chat and post it. Hope you enjoy it!
I should start a new topic on Christian Chat and post it. Hope you enjoy it!
Right... and even more precisely, "kept OUT-OF [ek] THE HOUR OF [the TIME-PERIOD OF]..." (note: this verse does not state "kept" within and through it, but "out-of THE HOUR [the TIME-PERIOD] OF...," which is an entirely distinct "idea" from what is commonly suggested by those pointing only to the "kept" word, considered wholly apart from its surrounding words...)
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in all the prophecy that God has given and that we are told came about never once has man been able to learn the literal method that God planned to carry out the prophecy. When man decides that this time they know God;s literal steps, this time is different, they are only fooling themselves. God's patterns always hold true.
You did not add 1 Corinthians 15:50...52
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
When the Eastern Sky splits, and Jesus descends at the sound of the Trump.......
THAT WILL BE IT! TIME WILL BE AT AN END, ONLY JUDGEMENT REMAINS............
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
When the Eastern Sky splits, and Jesus descends at the sound of the Trump.......
THAT WILL BE IT! TIME WILL BE AT AN END, ONLY JUDGEMENT REMAINS............
Hi P,
Sure I did. I mentioned it a couple of times by book, chapter and verse marked in red below:
"In addition, the "Trumpet of God" and the "last trumpet" of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:52, respectively, is not the same as the "Loud Trumpet call" referred to in Matthew 24:31 which is used to send out the angels to gather the living elect."
" The gathering of the church takes place prior to God's wrath (John 14:1-3, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53)"
God bless you for being aware of that.
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The word is a verb it is to guard over carefully shelter or protect my question though is about what we are guarded sheltered or protected from in terms of all that is to come. This verse is of course an action made by God from what I can understand it is not something to imply that we would suffer the tribulation in fact this verse seems to prove an action taken to shelter or protect us from it. So my question was to get your understanding of the verse
Good Morning, In case you have not seen this, i have made a open TRUTH challenge to the pre-trib fallacy.
$1,000 (US dollars) to the first person that can show the scripture(s) that clearly state: The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church is pre-tribulation raptured before the First Resurrection and before the Antichrist. The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church as a whole Body of Believers.
*** IMPORTANT - Individual believers/resurrections/raptures such as Enoch, Elijah, Lazarrus, John and the Saints from Matthew 27:51-53 (which is the fulfillment of Isaiah 26:19) = DO NOT QUALIFY.
Rules have been set forth by the Moderator = our Lord Jesus Christ
Rules Apply: ONLY Scripture: No Conjecture - No Commentaries - No personal belief statements
Rules for Disqualification: Seeking to Argue/Arguments - Adding to or taking away from God's Word - Personal Belief Statements - Conjecture
"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book." Revelation 22:18-19
Proverbs 30: 5-6 "Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Deuteronomy 4:1-2 Hear now, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live and may enter and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you
You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.
EXAMPLE to Follow as Your Guide: Show Proof (Scripture) that Jesus is the ONLY way we can be saved.
ANSWER(S): John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.
Acts 4:11-12 This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
$1,000 (US dollars) to the first person that can show the scripture(s) that clearly state: The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church is pre-tribulation raptured before the First Resurrection and before the Antichrist. The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church as a whole Body of Believers.
*** IMPORTANT - Individual believers/resurrections/raptures such as Enoch, Elijah, Lazarrus, John and the Saints from Matthew 27:51-53 (which is the fulfillment of Isaiah 26:19) = DO NOT QUALIFY.
Rules have been set forth by the Moderator = our Lord Jesus Christ
Rules Apply: ONLY Scripture: No Conjecture - No Commentaries - No personal belief statements
Rules for Disqualification: Seeking to Argue/Arguments - Adding to or taking away from God's Word - Personal Belief Statements - Conjecture
"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book." Revelation 22:18-19
Proverbs 30: 5-6 "Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Deuteronomy 4:1-2 Hear now, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live and may enter and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you
You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.
EXAMPLE to Follow as Your Guide: Show Proof (Scripture) that Jesus is the ONLY way we can be saved.
ANSWER(S): John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.
Acts 4:11-12 This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
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yes brother I have been through this same argument here a few times quoted every plain and clear scripture that doesn’t even leave an inch of room to believe the pre tribulation rapture to stand , but I’ve noticed this subject invites much arguing and in the end no amount of scripture will help because to believe the pre trib you have to be coming from a foreign interpretation someone had taught you beforehand
ot doesn’t exist in scripture in any form from the prophets of the ot
“And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.”
Hebrews 11:36-38 KJV
to the apostles
“For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ;
we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: Being defamed, we entreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.”
1 Corinthians 4:9-14, 16 KJV
All aren’t appointed to tribulation and suffering those who carry the message of Christ are surely going to see it and many through time will and up until the end it’s going to be prevalent
it’s sort of baked in tonthe doctrine of we don’t bother following the gospel we can live lavishly and care free but if we begin to follow after Jesus bring disciples (the church ) we’re going to go through many tribulations and sometimes terrible times and when those times come we’ll be delivered after we pass through death and see the truth of his glory who suffered sommuch standing before us
some will endure tribulation and anguish and others won’t Godnhas his reasons and purposes but certainly there is no promise of mass pre tribulation rapture . I honestly don’t even know how anyone ever came up with that whole concept but it’s just my own thought
ot doesn’t exist in scripture in any form from the prophets of the ot
“And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.”Hebrews 11:36-38 KJV
to the apostles
“For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ;
we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: Being defamed, we entreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.”
1 Corinthians 4:9-14, 16 KJV
All aren’t appointed to tribulation and suffering those who carry the message of Christ are surely going to see it and many through time will and up until the end it’s going to be prevalent
it’s sort of baked in tonthe doctrine of we don’t bother following the gospel we can live lavishly and care free but if we begin to follow after Jesus bring disciples (the church ) we’re going to go through many tribulations and sometimes terrible times and when those times come we’ll be delivered after we pass through death and see the truth of his glory who suffered sommuch standing before us
some will endure tribulation and anguish and others won’t Godnhas his reasons and purposes but certainly there is no promise of mass pre tribulation rapture . I honestly don’t even know how anyone ever came up with that whole concept but it’s just my own thought
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Context. Your citation is about difficulties in the world, not about suffering the tribulation of God. Other translations say "hardships" and others say "tribulations" plural to clarify the sense that is being communicated in your citation. The original Greek used in Acts 14:22 is "thlipseōn". https://biblehub.com/greek/thlipseo_n_2347.htm
Revelation 3:10 "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth."
Jesus keeps us out of the tribulation time, the 70th week of Daniel.
Revelation 3:10 "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth."
Jesus keeps us out of the tribulation time, the 70th week of Daniel.
Actually, I think he affirms the treaty, at the 3.5 year mark.
Daniel 9:27
New King James Version
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the MIDDLE of the week
I have recently moved from pre to mid trib.
I believe Christians will continue to be subject to man’s / the devil’s wrath.
But you are right. The Bride of Christ will not suffer the wrath of God. There is no point to it.
Daniel 9:27
New King James Version
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the MIDDLE of the week
I have recently moved from pre to mid trib.
I believe Christians will continue to be subject to man’s / the devil’s wrath.
But you are right. The Bride of Christ will not suffer the wrath of God. There is no point to it.
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yea I don’t even know how it ever became an idea it’s not in scripture anywhere I don’t think I’ve ever on these arguments seem a single suggestion of it
it’s always based on someone saying “ the church is not appoinred to suffer tribulation and wrath “
but all through the Bible Gods people were suffering through tribulations and being persecuted by the world from the prophets tonthe apostles
then looking at world history even from secular or Christian sources , to all the early church slaughtered under Titus , Nero and domitian…they were crucified and lit on fire , fed to beasts in the arena , skinned alive , used as lampposts crudifoed and soaked in oils and lit on fire to light neros carnival games
persecuted so badly that the Roman citizens eventually got tired of seeing them suffer so terribly and 300 years later they took away the Roman law of persecuting Christians
and yet the argument is always God would never let his church suffer his children but look at the only true example we have of his son . It seems a loss to argue it anymore for me exhausting like trying to stamp out a non existent entity
how can you disprove something that’s never there ? Odd conundrum in my estimation
but it always brings out my argumentative side and I don’t like that it’s just so frustrating this one particular subject
it’s always based on someone saying “ the church is not appoinred to suffer tribulation and wrath “
but all through the Bible Gods people were suffering through tribulations and being persecuted by the world from the prophets tonthe apostles
then looking at world history even from secular or Christian sources , to all the early church slaughtered under Titus , Nero and domitian…they were crucified and lit on fire , fed to beasts in the arena , skinned alive , used as lampposts crudifoed and soaked in oils and lit on fire to light neros carnival games
persecuted so badly that the Roman citizens eventually got tired of seeing them suffer so terribly and 300 years later they took away the Roman law of persecuting Christians
and yet the argument is always God would never let his church suffer his children but look at the only true example we have of his son . It seems a loss to argue it anymore for me exhausting like trying to stamp out a non existent entity
how can you disprove something that’s never there ? Odd conundrum in my estimation
but it always brings out my argumentative side and I don’t like that it’s just so frustrating this one particular subject
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yes brother I have been through this same argument here a few times quoted every plain and clear scripture that doesn’t even leave an inch of room to believe the pre tribulation rapture to stand , but I’ve noticed this subject invites much arguing and in the end no amount of scripture will help because to believe the pre trib you have to be coming from a foreign interpretation someone had taught you beforehand
ot doesn’t exist in scripture in any form from the prophets of the ot
“And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.”
Hebrews 11:36-38 KJV
to the apostles
“For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ;
we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: Being defamed, we entreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.”
1 Corinthians 4:9-14, 16 KJV
All aren’t appointed to tribulation and suffering those who carry the message of Christ are surely going to see it and many through time will and up until the end it’s going to be prevalent
it’s sort of baked in tonthe doctrine of we don’t bother following the gospel we can live lavishly and care free but if we begin to follow after Jesus bring disciples (the church ) we’re going to go through many tribulations and sometimes terrible times and when those times come we’ll be delivered after we pass through death and see the truth of his glory who suffered sommuch standing before us
some will endure tribulation and anguish and others won’t Godnhas his reasons and purposes but certainly there is no promise of mass pre tribulation rapture . I honestly don’t even know how anyone ever came up with that whole concept but it’s just my own thought
ot doesn’t exist in scripture in any form from the prophets of the ot
“And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.”Hebrews 11:36-38 KJV
to the apostles
“For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ;
we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: Being defamed, we entreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.”
1 Corinthians 4:9-14, 16 KJV
All aren’t appointed to tribulation and suffering those who carry the message of Christ are surely going to see it and many through time will and up until the end it’s going to be prevalent
it’s sort of baked in tonthe doctrine of we don’t bother following the gospel we can live lavishly and care free but if we begin to follow after Jesus bring disciples (the church ) we’re going to go through many tribulations and sometimes terrible times and when those times come we’ll be delivered after we pass through death and see the truth of his glory who suffered sommuch standing before us
some will endure tribulation and anguish and others won’t Godnhas his reasons and purposes but certainly there is no promise of mass pre tribulation rapture . I honestly don’t even know how anyone ever came up with that whole concept but it’s just my own thought
Go to christianityboard.com, register and then you can find me - David in NJ
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