10 Questions about OSAS
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Correct... and it also teaches that if we don't abide in Christ... we will be cut off.
Romans 11:21,22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
This agrees with what Jesus teaches in John 15
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. ***
WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
This is ONLY applicable to those that abide IN Christ.
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit HE taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
John 15:5
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
The Father is the husbandman, and HE takes away those that do not bear good fruit.
This should not be a problem for real Christians because those that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24)
But, it's a big problem for the OSAS peoples as they argue in favor of being able to live in sin and still believe they are in right standing with the Lord.
They be sadly mistaken!
I'm not an OSAS believer and agree with much of everything you say, BUT....
You really need to teach others in the same spirit as our Lord Jesus does - in Godly love and in patience.
The way I see it, God's truth stands no matter what anyone else believes. But being rude about it will just make others dig their heels in and not receive the truth.
How should you deal with others that don't believe the truth? You pray about it. It is really up to God to convince people. Your job is to share it and leave it up to God to make them see it.
If they don't believe it right away, then pray that they believe it someday and pray for them unceasingly. That's all you can do.
I also think that most OSAS believers do abide in the Holy Spirit - most of them are not going to end up in Hell just for believing in OSAS. So realize they are still your brothers and sister in Christ. Please don't treat them like they're the enemy. They're not.
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You really need to teach others in the same spirit as our Lord Jesus does - in Godly love and in patience.
The way I see it, God's truth stands no matter what anyone else believes. But being rude about it will just make others dig their heels in and not receive the truth.
How should you deal with others that don't believe the truth? You pray about it. It is really up to God to convince people. Your job is to share it and leave it up to God to make them see it.
If they don't believe it right away, then pray that they believe it someday and pray for them unceasingly. That's all you can do.
I also think that most OSAS believers do abide in the Holy Spirit - most of them are not going to end up in Hell just for believing in OSAS. So realize they are still your brothers and sister in Christ. Please don't treat them like they're the enemy. They're not.
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1. Recognize that we are sinners and in need of salvation. Trust in Christ and His works alone for your salvation. SAVED.Period. That is THE good news. Acts 16:31, John 3:16.
2. Now walk in the Spirit, be filled with the Spirit, follow His ways, follow His commands, abide in Him ect..
From my personal empirical evidence, most of the eternal security believing crowd does both 1 and 2. Their bases are covered either way.
Many in the loss of salvation side seem to do only #2. In fact, they profess it. Because if they need to"do" something to stay saved, or if they believe they can lose salvation they are not trusting in Christ alone.
I do not say this to win a debate or to puff myself up with my superiority....I say this because eternity is at stake. And I care, I want to see all ya in heaven.
I am not judging anyone's salvation. Because if at any moment in our lives we believed His Gospel, He is faithful and true to His word to save us.
2. Now walk in the Spirit, be filled with the Spirit, follow His ways, follow His commands, abide in Him ect..
From my personal empirical evidence, most of the eternal security believing crowd does both 1 and 2. Their bases are covered either way.
Many in the loss of salvation side seem to do only #2. In fact, they profess it. Because if they need to"do" something to stay saved, or if they believe they can lose salvation they are not trusting in Christ alone.
I do not say this to win a debate or to puff myself up with my superiority....I say this because eternity is at stake. And I care, I want to see all ya in heaven.
I am not judging anyone's salvation. Because if at any moment in our lives we believed His Gospel, He is faithful and true to His word to save us.
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Descriptive of genuine believers. The Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present, which is the mark of a genuine believer. This is not something that only elite saints do.
1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit... 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
Judas Iscariot is a good example of one who did not abide and in John 13:10-11, we get to the heart of the matter of why he did not abide. He was unclean, unlike the 11 remaining disciples who were clean. Jesus also referred to Judas as a devil in John 6:70.
In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot). In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.
Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas.
John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.
John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.
Matthew 7:17 - Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" or pseudo-Christians.
Your continued slandering of ALL OSAS believers because you suffer from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome is a big problem.
If you truly believe that ALL OSAS believers argue in favor of living in sin/living like the devil/practicing sin/having a license to sin etc.. you be sadly mistaken!
1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit... 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
Judas Iscariot is a good example of one who did not abide and in John 13:10-11, we get to the heart of the matter of why he did not abide. He was unclean, unlike the 11 remaining disciples who were clean. Jesus also referred to Judas as a devil in John 6:70.
In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot). In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.
Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas.
John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.
John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.
Matthew 7:17 - Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" or pseudo-Christians.
Your continued slandering of ALL OSAS believers because you suffer from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome is a big problem.
If you truly believe that ALL OSAS believers argue in favor of living in sin/living like the devil/practicing sin/having a license to sin etc.. you be sadly mistaken!
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That's funny... Jesus certainly called out false doctrine, did he not???
This IS Love that we keep His commandments (1 John 5:3)... which tells us to reprove (correct, expose) the works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11)
Jesus was very highly rude to those who claimed to know God's Word but were teaching the people false doctrine.
I have not been nearly as rude as Jesus was to the false teachers! They claim I'm being rude just because I don't agree with their doctrine and have the gall to tell them they are wrong!
The kid glove treatment is what Jesus provided to sinners who knew no better, not to hose who claim to study and know God's Word... and teach false doctrine which causes people to be separated from the Lord.
If that were true... then this means the Holy Spirit allows teaching that is in opposition to God's Word!
No, the fake holy spirit is the one bringing false doctrine forth... this is NOT the Spirit of God doing this.
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)
Romans 8:14
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
Hi we must look at what came before Rom 11:21 since it starts off with "if for" so something came before it and its what he was talking about. Taking it out of context to then match up with John.. not what he was saying. It was talking about Israel and Gentiles that stand by faith. The gentiles must not allow a spirit of contempt to possess them. The Jews of that day were hated and it would have been easy for the gentile Christians to have wrong altitude toward the Christ-rejected Jews. Israel chosen , blessed, favored above all others, was not spared. The gentiles are the wild branches grafted into their place. The gentiles are enjoying the privileges and blessings of the olive tree.
Its about how some gentiles were talking/treating Israel. Not at all about how you can lose your salvation. Then depends what verse were talking about. Sometimes that "cut off" does not mean cut off it means to be lifted up to get more light. If we knew about this that's what they have and still do to this day when a branch is not showing enough fruit.
Its about how some gentiles were talking/treating Israel. Not at all about how you can lose your salvation. Then depends what verse were talking about. Sometimes that "cut off" does not mean cut off it means to be lifted up to get more light. If we knew about this that's what they have and still do to this day when a branch is not showing enough fruit.
"The Father is the husbandman, and HE takes away those that do not bear good fruit.
Some have talked about 1st John and also branches. Branches, did we know some times those verses talk about cut off it really means to lift up to get more light. Yeah they did it then they still do this today when some branches are not showing fruit. 1st John do we know who John was talking to? See some people (Gnostics) believed they had no sin. Look more into what they believed then read 1st John who was talking to them. But wait we can still apply those verse to us today. In Hebrews at one point he was talking to Jewish believers in Christ that would sin then go offer a sacrifice for that sin. He told them there is no more sacrifice for sin. Christ cannot die again. By what they were doing put Christ to open shame.
We can go on and on here. So many know all this. One has to look at the original text and then who they were talking to. Trying to tie allt his together as proof you can lose your salvation. Not written. Your looking at one moment in time. He does not He sees all at once. The start from the end. Yes everything we do matters. We see only the natural. This is not real. Like did He rise over 2000 years ago or just over two days ago?
Some have talked about 1st John and also branches. Branches, did we know some times those verses talk about cut off it really means to lift up to get more light. Yeah they did it then they still do this today when some branches are not showing fruit. 1st John do we know who John was talking to? See some people (Gnostics) believed they had no sin. Look more into what they believed then read 1st John who was talking to them. But wait we can still apply those verse to us today. In Hebrews at one point he was talking to Jewish believers in Christ that would sin then go offer a sacrifice for that sin. He told them there is no more sacrifice for sin. Christ cannot die again. By what they were doing put Christ to open shame.
We can go on and on here. So many know all this. One has to look at the original text and then who they were talking to. Trying to tie allt his together as proof you can lose your salvation. Not written. Your looking at one moment in time. He does not He sees all at once. The start from the end. Yes everything we do matters. We see only the natural. This is not real. Like did He rise over 2000 years ago or just over two days ago?
I don't know. All I know is there is something quite "off" about how you're going about handling this. I do believe God gives us discernment and what He's placing on my heart right now is that the spirit in which you do this is not from Him.
You say Jesus was rude, but He really wasn't. He was BLUNT - not nasty like you've been toward the OSAS believers.
I think that's the major thing that God has been trying to show me about your behavior in this discourse against OSAS. If you're such a stickler for abiding in Christ than you should be a much godlier example to other people regarding that claim, (but you're not).
This is my second response. The Bible says not to continue to argue on any matter and to leave such issues at God's feet for Him to deal with. So I hope you consider what's being said and not have to learn its lessons the hard way.
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You say Jesus was rude, but He really wasn't. He was BLUNT - not nasty like you've been toward the OSAS believers.
I think that's the major thing that God has been trying to show me about your behavior in this discourse against OSAS. If you're such a stickler for abiding in Christ than you should be a much godlier example to other people regarding that claim, (but you're not).
This is my second response. The Bible says not to continue to argue on any matter and to leave such issues at God's feet for Him to deal with. So I hope you consider what's being said and not have to learn its lessons the hard way.
🙏🏼
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So, you believe that once someone gets born again... they never sin again?
Those that have been indoctrinated with false doctrines such as OSAS... get "feelings" like this often and it's not the Holy Spirit but an evil spirit that is trying to steer people away from listening to scripture and instead leading people to follow the crowd as they follow the popular ear ticklers of the day.
Really? Jesus told the religious folks they were of their father the devil... that's pretty rude!
Jesus said some among us are tares, children of the devil... that's pretty rude!
Christians are called to correct and call out false doctrine... Like Jesus and His Apostles did in scripture.
Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather REPROVE them.
It's those that teach the false doctrines of OSAS... that will be learning lessons the hard way.
I've been a believer for several decades now and have learned hard lessons by the Lord's discipline which lead me to come to understand that OSAS is false doctrine.... it's how I got here.
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Abiding in Christ is to remain in close, unbroken fellowship in him and fruit is produced. Abiding not in Christ means broken fellowship and fruitlessness. Hence, this is not about salvation but about our state.
"He taketh away" simply means a maximum discipline which is a physical death, hence, he bears an unacceptable testimony.
"He is cast forth" means he is rejected by men.
"Men gather them, and cast them into the fire, they are burned" The "them and they" are issues of life to the one who has been cast off as a branch, they are dead works of the believers and be burned at the judgment seat of Christ 1 Cor. 3:15. Note, the scripture did not say "Men gather him and cast him into the fire, he is burned" for in that case, ti will entail losing salvation but it isn't.
"He taketh away" simply means a maximum discipline which is a physical death, hence, he bears an unacceptable testimony.
"He is cast forth" means he is rejected by men.
"Men gather them, and cast them into the fire, they are burned" The "them and they" are issues of life to the one who has been cast off as a branch, they are dead works of the believers and be burned at the judgment seat of Christ 1 Cor. 3:15. Note, the scripture did not say "Men gather him and cast him into the fire, he is burned" for in that case, ti will entail losing salvation but it isn't.
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