1984, Fifth Chapter

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Galatea

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I'm not sure if anyone is still interested, or if interest has petered out. In chapter five, we are introduced to the character of Syme, a philologist, whose job is to reduce the language in order for people to be unable to communicate unsavory ideas that would be harmful to the Party.

I like Syme, although he is gung-ho for the Party, because he tells us EXACTLY what he thinks- he's straightforward. It's a little refreshing, in the world of 1984. Even our hero, Winston, is a dissembler. Syme does not dissemble. He is really excited about the upcoming executions (gruesome man, but he is sold on the Party). Instead of inventing new words, he destroys them.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, feel free to post.
 
From what I recall, Syme corners Winston in their exchange during lunch and comes across so intense that it's curious, even. I suspected some subconscious-driven behavior here, i.e. he must be fervent for The Party to make up for some past thought crime.
 
Siberian_Khatru said:
From what I recall, Syme corners Winston in their exchange during lunch and comes across so intense that it's curious, even. I suspected some subconscious-driven behavior here, i.e. he must be fervent for The Party to make up for some past thought crime.
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I got the idea that he is just rabidly for the party. He buys into the whole shebang. Winston does say that Syme will one day be vaporized because he "is too intelligent. He sees too clearly and speaks too plainly."

Syme talks about the whole motive behind destroying words, to make thought impossible- when the Party would rather have a less brutal seeming motive like efficiency in speech and writing.
 
I hope people here are still following along. It's not a "fun read", but it's a good one.
 
Siberian_Khatru said:
I hope people here are still following along. It's not a "fun read", but it's a good one.
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I think it's kind of an important one, since people want to cite it so often nowadays. I think it is good to know what was actually written in the book as a whole without cherry picking quotes.
 
Galatea said:
I think it's kind of an important one, since people want to cite it so often nowadays. I think it is good to know what was actually written in the book as a whole without cherry picking quotes.
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I can't help but feel relating modern times to it is a bit of hyperbole, but I agree about it being an important read. I'm interested in what gets picked next, if you keep on with the book club idea.

It reminds me a bit of Ayn Rand's Anthem, albeit more fleshed out and with a very different ending.
 
Siberian_Khatru said:
I can't help but feel relating modern times to it is a bit of hyperbole, but I agree about it being an important read. I'm interested in what gets picked next, if you keep on with the book club idea.

It reminds me a bit of Ayn Rand's Anthem, albeit more fleshed out and with a very different ending.
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I haven't read any Ayn Rand, so I can't make a comment about that. I think it is hyperbole to think we are sliding into totalitarianism, too. If that were the case, sites like this would soon be shut down. It is referenced so much, though, I think it is good to read it. I am fascinated by the idea that liberals and conservatives both claim the book as supporting their ideologies, so I think people should probably read it and make up their own minds whether it is a liberal or conservative book.

I originally didn't choose this one, though- because it is so depressing and not really very fun to discuss. I don't know if the book club will survive or not, lol. Maybe if a more amusing book is chosen.
 
Galatea said:
I haven't read any Ayn Rand, so I can't make a comment about that. I think it is hyperbole to think we are sliding into totalitarianism, too. If that were the case, sites like this would soon be shut down. It is referenced so much, though, I think it is good to read it. I am fascinated by the idea that liberals and conservatives both claim the book as supporting their ideologies, so I think people should probably read it and make up their own minds whether it is a liberal or conservative book.

I originally didn't choose this one, though- because it is so depressing and not really very fun to discuss. I don't know if the book club will survive or not, lol. Maybe if a more amusing book is chosen.
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The only parallel I see that's glaring is how Trump has been put on blast for lying, yet his supporters champion him on and jeer the opposition. Instead of the Two Minutes Hate, we have four years of it. Lol.

I'm hopeful for the club, but if it falls through, hopefully I/we can find somebody to read and discuss with.
 
Siberian_Khatru said:
The only parallel I see that's glaring is how Trump has been put on blast for lying, yet his supporters champion him on and jeer the opposition. Instead of the Two Minutes Hate, we have four years of it. Lol.

I'm hopeful for the club, but if it falls through, hopefully I/we can find somebody to read and discuss with.
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But, Conservatives can say the same thing, you see? We could say the people who are so against Trump jeer at Trump supporters and are rather hateful. The Women March was not very pretty. That's what is so fascinating to me. I am a conservative, and see the book as supporting my viewpoints- freedom of thought, worship, speech. Liberals think they champion these freedoms. It's interesting to me.

Well, I hope it continues as well. I like talking to people about books.
 
Galatea said:
But, Conservatives can say the same thing, you see? We could say the people who are so against Trump jeer at Trump supporters and are rather hateful. The Women March was not very pretty. That's what is so fascinating to me. I am a conservative, and see the book as supporting my viewpoints- freedom of thought, worship, speech. Liberals think they champion these freedoms. It's interesting to me.

Well, I hope it continues as well. I like talking to people about books.
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Good. Let's do The Shack.
 
Galatea said:
But, Conservatives can say the same thing, you see? We could say the people who are so against Trump jeer at Trump supporters and are rather hateful.
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I'm not arguing that at all; it's true that that behavior is apparent across the gamut of political opinions. I was speaking only to the relation between the attitude in 1984 - The Party and Big Brother - and what we're seeing now - Republicans and Trump. The reality isn't as ubiquitous as the novel, unless, maybe... we include the Proles?
Willie-T said:
Good. Let's do The Shack.
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It's been awhile, but I think I remember enough of it. It was good.
 
Siberian_Khatru said:
I'm not arguing that at all; it's true that that behavior is apparent across the gamut of political opinions. I was speaking only to the relation between the attitude in 1984 - The Party and Big Brother - and what we're seeing now - Republicans and Trump. The reality isn't as ubiquitous as the novel, unless, maybe... we include the Proles?

It's been awhile, but I think I remember enough of it. It was good.
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I know there are some supporters who follow Trump blindly, but for the most part, I think most people who voted for him and support him do not worship him as the people in the Party did with Big Brother. Many people held their noses and voted for him, I did myself.
 
Galatea said:
I know there are some supporters who follow Trump blindly, but for the most part, I think most people who voted for him and support him do not worship him as the people in the Party did with Big Brother. Many people held their noses and voted for him, I did myself.
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Fair enough. The semantics allude to a lot of people voting Republican rather than voting Trump. In any case, I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, just observing.
 
Siberian_Khatru said:
Fair enough. The semantics allude to a lot of people voting Republican rather than voting Trump. In any case, I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, just observing.
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I'm not offended, I am just making observations as well. I think most of the time, people end up voting AGAINST the other candidate- it seems the way of modern politics. Instead of voting FOR a person, we end up voting AGAINST a person. The lesser of two evils, sort of mentality prevails quite often. The last time I voted FOR a presidential candidate was George W.

I guess you are saying the people in the Party are more slavishly devoted to the Party than Big Brother? I believe that was just the upper echelon, though- not the Outer Party people.
 
Galatea said:
We might all get banned if we read that one. I could see the fur flying. Well, we can have a vote and see what happens.
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I'm sure we would. The mods have already removed my link to the free audio book. I would have made them happier if I had dared to say that I have some Catholic friends.

I think Jesus told his guys that they could know they were on the right track by measuring the resistance they encountered. LOL
 
Siberian_Khatru said:
I'm not arguing that at all; it's true that that behavior is apparent across the gamut of political opinions. I was speaking only to the relation between the attitude in 1984 - The Party and Big Brother - and what we're seeing now - Republicans and Trump. The reality isn't as ubiquitous as the novel, unless, maybe... we include the Proles?

It's been awhile, but I think I remember enough of it. It was good.
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No............ You would see the censorship of 1984 rearing it's head right here if we tried that on this forum.
 
Willie-T said:
I'm sure we would. The mods have already removed my link to the free audio book. I would have made them happier if I had dared to say that I have some Catholic friends.

I think Jesus told his guys that they could know they were on the right track by measuring the resistance they encountered. LOL
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I thought Jesus told His guys that they could know if they are on the right track by measuring the width of the track. I seem to remember reading that the way to life was narrow while the way to death was broad.

I think I might read it, just to see what it is all about. I don't think it is good to portray God as a woman or any other person except as Jesus, that is how God was made manifest to us. He is a spirit, and it seems blasphemous to portray Him in any form. Although, I must say I do love Michealangelo's painting of the Creation- I am wary of anything that depicts God the Father in human form. I believe this is part of what the problem of the book is, not so much that God the Father is depicted as a woman, but that He is depicted as a human at all.

I dare to say I have Catholic family members, so I trump your Catholic friends.
 
Sully said:
The Fountainhead. Most intriguing novel ever imo.
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Magenta recommended this one highly. She has excellent taste. I saw the Gary Cooper film, but I know the book must be much different.
 
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