1st Death (physical death), 2nd death (spiritual death) - which death did Jesus die and became victorious over?
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Scripture says He put to death in the body/flesh (1 Peter 3:18):
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to
bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. NIV
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might
bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: KJV
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to
bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. NIV
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might
bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: KJV
Jesus only died physically, and not spiritually, and Jesus said to the Father in to thy hands I commend My spirit so the spirit did not die, and Jesus' soul went to hell but resurrected for David said that God would not let His soul stay in hell.
All spirits of people go back to God who gave them regardless of how the person acted on earth, and the flesh is put off, and the soul will live for eternity whether with God or not.
Jesus died physically, and His spirit went to God, and His soul went to hell to conquer death, hell, and the grave, and then He came back up, for the Bible says that He descended, and ascended, which is His soul.
The man Christ Jesus is like us body, soul, and spirit, and obtained salvation like us which is His soul being saved for eternity, but He is the personal human body of God where the saints have partial attributes of God but the same salvation.
Jesus was never a sinner even when the sins of the world were placed on Him, and then He laid down those sins, so Jesus would not experience the second death that is for the wicked for He was never wicked, neither did He need to conquer the second death for it is for the wicked for punishment, and Jesus never deserved punishment, and when His soul went to hell He did not receive any punishment but to conquer it.
The Old Testament saints that visited the underworld before Jesus shed His blood did not receive any punishment for the blood of animals covered their sins.
The second death is only for those that are wicked not receiving the truth, and Jesus was never wicked, not at any time was He wicked so He would not have to experience the second death for if He did he would not be the Savior, and His soul would of not rose up.
How can Jesus be the Savior if He experienced the second death that is for the wicked.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
And also this is the second death that has not happened yet which is death and hell cast in to the lake of fire with all the people not found in the book of life, and the second death cannot happen before that, and Jesus went to hell to conquer it and He did not go to the lake of fire and of course He did not go to the lake of fire.
The second death is the lake of fire not hell although hell is cast in to the lake of fire, but the second death will not happen until the millennial reign is over.
Psa 63:9 But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Babylon will never have physical dominion again, but is her in spirit which she represents the kingdom of man, the occult, human religion, which you either belong to the kingdom of God, or Babylon the kingdom of man, which she represents all human history for the wicked.
This war has not happened yet, and will happen at the middle of the 7 years period in the future, which the earth becomes the devils holding cell, and Satan appears as the beast, the man of sin.
Death and hell are in the lower parts of the earth and death and hell shall be thrown in to the lake of fire, which all the wicked and all the devils will be confined to the earth, and the whole earth shall be cast in to the lake of fire and be burned up.
In my opinion Noose, he died in exactly the same way that either Lazarus, Jarius' daughter, and the widow from Nain's son did. Better comparison would be Lazarus as he was in the grave for 4 days, and that Jesus was for three (we don't know the duration of the others). So whatever can be determined by the length of time in the grave, Jesus suffered in the same way that Lazarus did. My answer is not precise as to how exactly each of his dimensions were affected, but nor can it be, because there are no biblical statements that confirm your question (which is why you asked). But, again, if it offers any insight, I would equate both Jesus' physical and spiritual death with that of any other biblical character that was raised from the dead (widow from Zeraphath's son, Shunammite child, Dorcas, Eutycus).
Now of course, we're just talking about the logistics of death, not the significance and ramifications of Jesus' death over the others. This is incomparable.
Jesus death was a physical death because a spiritual death is separation from God. As Adam was told in the Book of Genesis chapter 2
"17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. "
Jesus was God so that would be impossible for God to separate Himself from Himself. But the body that God was in as that indwelling Holy Spirit, that of Emmanuel ("God with us") , was able to bleed, suffer, thirst, hunger, and die.
The people, including the Disciples, witnessed Jesus die on the cross. Some , maybe all, heard Him commend His spirit unto the Father, and then the scripture says, Jesus breathed his last. (The Book of Luke chapter 23 verse 46)
When Jesus conquered death three days later on the first day after Sabbath, Sunday, the first day of the Jewish week and after Passover, He arose on the day of the Feast of Weeks, "Shavuoth." This happens 50 days following the Feast of First Fruits.
Jesus therefore fulfilled the prophecies concerning Messiah, as well as those meanings behind the Jewish feasts calendar.
This also fulfilled by example Jesus' teachings concerning eternal life. The people were familiar with crucifixion. No one arose from death after that. When Jesus did, life eternal was a message that resonated with those who had heard the Gospel message Jesus taught as pertained especially to the flesh being able to be cast off but eternal life was to be lived in the spirit.
This is why when Mary Magdalene went to touch Jesus after she saw him when He had left the tomb, He warned her not to. Because he had not yet returned to His Father.
Jesus descended to Sheol, (Greek, "Hades") the abode of the dead, not Hell. No one is yet residing, suffering, in Hell.
Jesus was forsaken by the father, seperated from the father, because our sins were put on Him. Sin seperates. He suffered both deaths but the grave could not hold Him. The second death is physical as well, but it is eternal.
Some verses....
Matt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days,....
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
The second death isn't spiritual, it is the death of all that are not part of the first resurrection.
Some verses....
Matt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days,....
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
The second death isn't spiritual, it is the death of all that are not part of the first resurrection.
this is why i put a big red X on your comment:
You who fear the Lord, praise Him!
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!
For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from Him;
But when He cried to Him, He heard.
(Psalm 22:23-24)
and here is why the passages you quoted don't dissuade me on this point: (Psalm 22:23-24)
in Matthew 27:46 He is singing a psalm. one called 'the hind of the morning' -- Israel is that hind. she thinks she is forsaken, but she is not. that is how the song goes, and there He is, taking her place. see above vv. 23-24 -- God does not forsake the hind; He does not hide His face from Him. Christ is speaking as Israel, reminding everyone who heard Him say this 'in a loud voice' of what the song is saying. by saying this He convicts sin and saves those who hear it with hearing ears.
Isaiah 53 doesn't say He is forsaken.
amen to Acts 2:24; death cannot hold Him, but rather death is swallowed up itself in victory. ask how can that be? and examine the answer closely, and i think you'll find that He cannot deny Himself.
Revelation 20 talks of two deaths: those who have part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power over - and Christ is the firstfruits. He is not under the second death. like you say, the second death is the death of all who have no part in the first resurrection, but Christ is the resurrection and the life: so it cannot be as you also said, that He died 'both deaths' - because you also said, the second death is eternal. He is eternal life; death cannot hold Him; He does not have eternal death nor can He be subject to it. death broke trying to contain Him.
He is God and God cannot deny Himself
What does 'made alive in the spirit' mean? Does it not mean that He conquered the spiritual death?
nothing personal of course @TMS i just don't think it's correct that Christ was forsaken or that He - Life Himself - became eternally dead. that's the victory, IMO. that Life could not be overcome by death - instead He overcame death 'by the power of an indestructible life' ((Hebrews 7:16))
CHRIST EXPERIENCED BOTH THE FIRST AND SECOND DEATHS ON THE CROSS
ISAIAH 53
SMITTEN OF GOD AND AFFLICTED = SECOND DEATH
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
THE CHASTISEMENT OF OUR PEACE = SECOND DEATH
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
THE LORD HATH LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF OF ALL = SECOND DEATH
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
HE WAS OPPRESSED AND AFFLICTED = SECOND DEATH
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
FOR THE TRANSGRESSION OF MY PEOPLE HE WAS STRICKEN = SECOND DEATH
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
THOU SHALT MAKE HIS SOUL AND OFFERING FOR SIN = SECOND DEATH
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
HE SHALL SEE THE TRAVAIL OF HIS SOUL = SECOND DEATH
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
BECAUSE HE HATH POURED OUT HIS SOUL UNTO DEATH = SECOND DEATH
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
It is extremely unfortunate that the King James translators translated Sheol as either *the grave* or *hell* and then translated Hades also as *hell*. Christ went to Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights. But that was after He suffered intensely on the cross in body, soul, and spirit. Christ not only died physically but also experienced the second death (spiritually and in His soul) as shown above in my post #13. But while Christ was in Sheol/Hades He proclaimed His victory on the cross to all the spirits in prison. That is what is meant by "He preached to the spirits in prison". That was not the Gospel but the victorious finished work of Christ on the cross which was proclaimed to the spirits (the righteous, the unrighteous, and the angels which kept not their first estate).
seems like you're just calling a bunch of things "second death" that don't actually say "second death" ?
can you explain why any of those must mean "second death" ?
like, go to where the second death is actually literally talked about in scripture. is it called "travail" or "affliction" or "being smitten" or "bearing grief" ?
that would help convince me, if you could. as it is it just looks like you saying "because i said so" and that's not persuasive at all.
Several points to note:
1.The penalty for sin is death (2nd death). Jesus paid the penalty for our sins-means that He had to undergo the full process and be made victorious or else we have no hope.
If the penalty for sin was a full marathon (42km) and Jesus ran half marathon (21km) then He has not paid the penalty and we are all doomed.
2. God's wrath for sinners is the 2nd death and in Jesus, God's wrath was satisfied. How is that possible if Jesus did not go the full length and made victorious?
3. Heb 2 says Jesus was made to be like His brothers in every way so that He can taste death for all.
If this means only physical death which all men must face anyways, regardless of what Jesus suffered then we should not have confidence when it comes to judgement.
Finally
Rev 1:17When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. But He placed His right hand on me and said, “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 18the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of Death and of Hades.
4. Having the keys to hades means He went all the way IMO.
1.The penalty for sin is death (2nd death). Jesus paid the penalty for our sins-means that He had to undergo the full process and be made victorious or else we have no hope.
If the penalty for sin was a full marathon (42km) and Jesus ran half marathon (21km) then He has not paid the penalty and we are all doomed.
2. God's wrath for sinners is the 2nd death and in Jesus, God's wrath was satisfied. How is that possible if Jesus did not go the full length and made victorious?
3. Heb 2 says Jesus was made to be like His brothers in every way so that He can taste death for all.
If this means only physical death which all men must face anyways, regardless of what Jesus suffered then we should not have confidence when it comes to judgement.
Finally
Rev 1:17When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. But He placed His right hand on me and said, “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 18the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of Death and of Hades.
4. Having the keys to hades means He went all the way IMO.
Are you not aware that many things are IMPLIED in Scripture? Everything does not have to be explicitly stated to be true.
for example, this really comes across as nonsense. the scripture says He was afflicted yet He did not open His mouth.
if it's like you declare, that "He was afflicted" = "He died the second death" then you are saying the scripture is equivalent to:
He died the second death yet didn't open His mouth
which doesn't make any sense. why would anyone who has died the second death be expected to open their mouth? they're twice dead! the fact that the scripture says "yet He opened not His mouth" is clearly speaking of a circumstance before any kind of extinguishment. it cannot possibly be obliquely speaking of eternal death and then the marvel that there wasn't life afterwards - for no less reason that He rose! not eternally existing as dead !
don't get mad. just trying to help, dude. that iron is dull IMO.
Physical death is simply the separation of the soul and spirit from the body. It does not necessarily involve the sufferings of the soul. But the second death is the intense suffering that every unredeemed soul faces in the Lake of Fire. That is the suffering which is shown in Isaiah 53 as I have pointed out. And Christ was made SIN for us, therefore He suffered in His soul the agonies of the second death.
And that simply means that in spite of all His intense sufferings Christ did not complain, scream, plead for mercy, or speak evil. It seems nonsense only to those who have failed to plumb the depths of what Isaiah prophesied.