3 Boys found dead Israel vows retaliation

[Esanta]

Because you have provided no effective solution for aggression.

Non-responsive.

If you have better ideas about how any individual can love enemies apart from choosing to do it and actively working towards it, then enlighten me Elin.

On one hand you say Jesus came to effect a change of heart in people, as many as possible, on the other hand you say such a change is no cure for aggression. Make your mind up.

 

[Elin]

Because you have provided no effective solution for aggression in the world.

If you have better ideas about how any individual can love enemies apart from choosing to do it and actively working towards it, then enlighten me Elin.

On one hand you say Jesus came to effect a change of heart in people, as many as possible, on the other hand you say such a change is no cure for aggression.

Your penuriousness of understanding is showing.

Read it again, you got it wrong.

Make your mind up.

Likewise showing is your penurious grasp of the reality of a fallen and condemned world.

 

[Esanta]

Your penuriousness of understanding is showing.

Read it again, you got it wrong.


Likewise showing is your penurious grasp of the reality of a fallen and condemned world.

All I genuinely receive from this is an attitude something like 'there's no way to be better. Nothing will change. The world's gonna burn so we might as well let it. War's okay'.

I simply won't view things that way.

 

[Elin]

The Word of God is given to the people of God; i.e., those in Christ by regeneration of his Holy Spirit.
The unregenerate cannot really understand the Word of God.

Suffice it to say that Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Suffice it to say that Jesus came to effect change of heart in those whom the Father gave him.
He did not come to change the world, which is already condemned,
but to save out of the condemned world those who are in him.

Suffice it to say that the Word of God is foolishness to those who are not regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

. . .Your penuriousness of understanding is showing.

Read it again, you got it wrong.

Likewise showing is your penurious grasp of the reality of a fallen and condemned world.

All I genuinely receive from this is an attitude something like 'there's no way to be better.
Nothing will change. The world's gonna burn so we might as well let it. War's okay'.

That's the penuriousness of understanding to which I am referring.

We cannot save the condemned world, we can only call people out of it with the gospel,
and live our own lives in the love and power of the Holy Spirit.
However, that will not redeem a fallen and condemned world, and we cannot fix it.

I simply won't view things that way.

You don't have to believe Jesus. . .but I choose to.

 

[crossnote]

1 Corinthians 2:9-16 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[PlainWord]

I went to Israel in 1981 as a Senior in HS. What an experience. Nothing has changed though. I saw a house get blown up by 2 grenades right next to where our bus was parked. Every time there is a flare-up I always wonder, could this be it; the beginning of the end?? But so far it hasn't been. But one of these days it will be.

 

[dcontroversal]

Not messing around now...

Israel air force bombs terrorist bases in Gaza, blasts Palestinian kidnappers Hebron homes

AMEN and raze it to the ground!

 

[Esanta]

I went to Israel in 1981 as a Senior in HS. What an experience. Nothing has changed though. I saw a house get blown up by 2 grenades right next to where our bus was parked. Every time there is a flare-up I always wonder, could this be it; the beginning of the end?? But so far it hasn't been. But one of these days it will be.

And you look forward to that?

 

[crossnote]

Looks like Israel is about to make it's move, 100,000 Gazans told to evacuate.

IDF calls on 100,000 Gaza residents along Israeli border to evacuate homes - Israel News, Ynetnews

 

[dave_in_KWC]

I came to this thread, because I have had an ongoing discussion about this topic on a secular social media site. It is a difficult and complicated topic, fraught with paradox and dilemma. I am a Christian who believes in peacemaking and that war is often evil and full of sinfulness and as a result brings forth unimaginable, tremendous & very long lasting negative consequences (Romans 8:6-7). At the same time, I do seriously think that I would defend myself and my loved ones and my land, country, people if I was bullied and attacked and attempted to be destroyed. Sometimes I see this "reaction to defend" as carnal and unspiritual, at other times and for what I perceive as good and Godly reasons (I may be wrong) I see this impulse as right or righteous. Sometimes I try to relate this seeming contradiction to Jesus and ask Him what to do and how to fight evil and I sometimes sense that I am too focused on this worldly struggle and the rationale(s) of humanity. I sometimes sense that Jesus knows that this sinful world system and the evil which controls it will one day fall, that all the fighting in the flesh, in our carnal minds (I include myself and other well-meaning, carnally-minded Christians in this comment) will cease. And everyone will know that Jesus Christ is the Master, the King, the Ruler of All. For doesn't all the fighting and killing become vanity and ceaseless striving which only the Prince of Peace can put to rest, with His Rule?

I think of the following scripture and wonder if it doesn't apply to all of us as we try to make our own justice and right the wrongs around us and to us... I'd love to hear your reactions to my comments and thoughts... May God illumine our minds with His Eternal Truth & Counsel!

Romans 3:10-15 ~ Amplified Bible (AMP)

10 As it is written, None is righteous, just and truthful and upright and conscientious, no, not one.
11 No one understands [no one intelligently discerns or comprehends]; no one seeks out God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have gone wrong and have become unprofitable andworthless; no one does right, not even one!
13 Their throat is a yawning grave; they use their tongues to deceive (to mislead and to deal treacherously). The venom of asps is beneath their lips.
14 Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood.

 

[Elin]

I came to this thread, because I have had an ongoing discussion about this topic on a secular social media site. It is a difficult and complicated topic, fraught with paradox and dilemma. I am a Christian who believes in peacemaking and that war is often evil and full of sinfulness and as a result brings forth unimaginable, tremendous & very long lasting negative consequences (Romans 8:6-7). At the same time, I do seriously think that I would defend myself and my loved ones and my land, country, people if I was bullied and attacked and attempted to be destroyed. Sometimes I see this "reaction to defend" as carnal and unspiritual, at other times and for what I perceive as good and Godly reasons (I may be wrong) I see this impulse as right or righteous. Sometimes I try to relate this seeming contradiction to Jesus

Well, there are a couple of things to keep in mind from Scripture:

1) Protection of innocent human life trumps all other moral law (Hebrew mid-wives, Rahab).

2) Jesus told his disciples to flee persecution (Mt 10:23), not stand and be slaughtered.

Precisely because it is a fallen world, we must protect innocent human life.

and ask Him what to do and how to fight evil and I sometimes sense that I am too focused on this worldly struggle and the rationale(s) of humanity. I sometimes sense that Jesus knows that this sinful world system and the evil which controls it will one day fall, that all the fighting in the flesh, in our carnal minds (I include myself and other well-meaning, carnally-minded Christians in this comment) will cease. And everyone will know that Jesus Christ is the Master, the King, the Ruler of All. For doesn't all the fighting and killing become vanity and ceaseless striving which only the Prince of Peace can put to rest, with His Rule?

Scriptures doesn't see it that way.

I think of the following scripture and wonder if it doesn't apply to all of us as we try to make our own justice and right the wrongs around us and to us... I'd love to hear your reactions to my comments and thoughts... May God illumine our minds with His Eternal Truth & Counsel!

Romans 3:10-15 ~ Amplified Bible (AMP)

10 As it is written, None is righteous, just and truthful and upright and conscientious, no, not one.
11 No one understands [no one intelligently discerns or comprehends]; no one seeks out God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have gone wrong and have become unprofitable andworthless; no one does right, not even one!
13 Their throat is a yawning grave; they use their tongues to deceive (to mislead and to deal treacherously). The venom of asps is beneath their lips.
14 Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood.

This refers to unregenerate man, not to those who are born again, and are sons in God own family.

 

[Esanta]

That's the penuriousness of understanding to which I am referring.

We cannot save the condemned world, we can only call people out of it with the gospel,
and live our own lives in the love and power of the Holy Spirit.
However, that will not redeem a fallen and condemned world, and we cannot fix it.


You don't have to believe Jesus. . .but I choose to.

If professed followers of peace, love, hope and boundless forgiveness will not even practice the things leading to peace, love, hope and boundless forgiveness then by that logic it is quite plain and clear that the world will never realize any considerable peace, love, hope and boundless forgiveness.

His divine power has granted to us all things that are to do with life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become advocates of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our master Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and responsibility, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. In this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[crossnote]

Looks like Israel is about to make it's move, 100,000 Gazans told to evacuate.

IDF calls on 100,000 Gaza residents along Israeli border to evacuate homes - Israel News, Ynetnews

...is moving in now

 

[Elin]

If professed followers of peace, love, hope and boundless forgiveness will not even practice the things leading to peace, love, hope and boundless forgiveness then by that logic it is quite plain and clear that
the world will never realize any considerable peace, love, hope and boundless forgiveness.

Previously addressed. To repeat:

If you knew the NT, you would know that no matter how holy the followers of Christ are
(a small minority, remember), it will not alter the course of the world.

Your reasoning is human, not Biblical.

His divine power has granted to us all things that are to do with life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become advocates of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our master Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and responsibility, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. In this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Yep. . .that is what is promised to those in Christ, not to the rest of the world.

The course of the world cannot be altered.

 

[Esanta]

Previously addressed. To repeat:

If you knew the NT, you would know that no matter how holy the followers of Christ are
(a small minority, remember), it will not alter the course of the world.

Your reasoning is human, not Biblical.


Yep. . .that is what is promised to those in Christ, not to the rest of the world.

The course of the world cannot be altered.

Apply what you just said to this thread Elin. You're basically saying we can't stop wars or help conflict as part of this c'est la vie attitude to death and destruction, and it makes you no more a follower of compassion, peace and forgiveness than the others who sit idly by and figure it's alright to do nothing or say nothing against war and hatred.

You would rather permit it and encourage a blasé attitude towards it simply because you think yourself part of a minority of high and mighty people, when the reality is that by the very words from your mouth you show how you contradict them with other words.

We cannot save the condemned world, we can only call people out of it with the gospel,
and live our own lives in the love and power of the Holy Spirit.

If you were living your life 'by the Holy Spirit' you'd have more compassion towards those stuck in a cycle of war and death and destruction. You'd genuinely advocate that peace, brotherly affection and love you're told you must cultivate. But you don't. You basically say 'aw well, let it be'.

If you, the individual who is supposed to have this holy spirit, do not spend your individual life promoting and living by such character traits as brotherly affection and love for others, then what are you but a pretender?

 

[Elin]

Apply what you just said to this thread Elin. You're basically saying we can't stop wars or help conflict as part of this c'est la vie attitude to death and destruction, and it makes you no more a follower of compassion, peace and forgiveness than the others who sit idly by and figure it's alright to do nothing or say nothing against war and hatred.

You would rather permit it and encourage a blasé attitude towards it simply because you think yourself part of a minority of high and mighty people, when the reality is that by the very words from your mouth you show how you contradict them with other words.

We cannot save the condemned world, we can only call people out of it with the gospel,
and live our own lives in the love and power of the Holy Spirit.

If you were living your life 'by the Holy Spirit' you'd have more compassion towards those stuck in a cycle of war and death and destruction. You'd genuinely advocate that peace, brotherly affection and love you're told you must cultivate. But you don't. You basically say 'aw well, let it be'.

If you, the individual who is supposed to have this holy spirit, do not spend your individual life promoting and living by such character traits as brotherly affection and love for others, then what are you but a pretender?

Previously addressed. . .

 

[crossnote]

Apply what you just said to this thread Elin. You're basically saying we can't stop wars or help conflict as part of this c'est la vie attitude to death and destruction, and it makes you no more a follower of compassion, peace and forgiveness than the others who sit idly by and figure it's alright to do nothing or say nothing against war and hatred.

You would rather permit it and encourage a blasé attitude towards it simply because you think yourself part of a minority of high and mighty people, when the reality is that by the very words from your mouth you show how you contradict them with other words.

We cannot save the condemned world, we can only call people out of it with the gospel,
and live our own lives in the love and power of the Holy Spirit.

If you were living your life 'by the Holy Spirit' you'd have more compassion towards those stuck in a cycle of war and death and destruction. You'd genuinely advocate that peace, brotherly affection and love you're told you must cultivate. But you don't. You basically say 'aw well, let it be'.

If you, the individual who is supposed to have this holy spirit, do not spend your individual life promoting and living by such character traits as brotherly affection and love for others, then what are you but a pretender?

Two hours of prayer by Elin to the living God can accomplish10 times more than 2 years of activism on your part.

 

[Esanta]

Two hours of prayer by Elin to the living God can accomplish10 times more than 2 years of activism on your part.

I was given a body for more than wishful thinking. The point was, by the bible's own standards, if a person isn't compassionate or peace seeking, they aren't a follower.

 

[Elin]

I was given a body for more than wishful thinking. The point was, by the bible's own standards,
if a person isn't compassionate or peace seeking, they aren't a follower.

Previously addressed.

You misunderstand the peace Christ came to bring and, therefore, do not know what seeking it means.

 

[crossnote]

I was given a body for more than wishful thinking. The point was, by the bible's own standards, if a person isn't compassionate or peace seeking, they aren't a follower.

That's the point, you view prayer as wishful, we view it as connecting with the One who has the answers.