a born-again Christian can never (keyword: never) lose their salvation

[eternally-gratefull]

The bible lists 3 reasons I remember off hand that Jesus came to this earth. I will list them and ask that you contemplate how sin (transgression of the law) relates to them and how a relationship with Jesus relates to them. Jesus came to:
1) show the Father
2) Save his people FROM their sins (not in them)
3) Destroy the works of the devil

Your number2 is wrong

Number 2 should be to save people from the PENALTY of sin (the curse of the law)
If you do not get this right, everything else will crash and burn.

 

[Agbarogi]

A born again can loss his salvation if he or she did not guide his salvation with fear & trembling. If a born again place his hand on the plague and look back he or she is not qualify for d kingdom. If u are born again u now later go back to your sinful nature u have loss it

 

[BibletruthSOP]

maybe this is it:

Jude:
3 Dear friends, I was busily at work writing to you about the salvation we share, when I found it necessary to write, urging you to keep contending earnestly for the faith which was once and for all passed on to God's people.
4 For certain individuals, the ones written about long ago as being meant for this condemnation, have wormed their way in - ungodly people who pervert God's grace into a license for debauchery and disown our only Master and Lord, Yeshua the Messiah.

Jude 24...God can keep you from falling (strange comment if it is impossible to fall) and present YOU faultless before the presence of his glory...………...If we would let Him. There is a reason Jesus asked "will I find faith when I return?"

 

[BibletruthSOP]

Your number2 is wrong

Number 2 should be to save people from the PENALTY of sin (the curse of the law)
If you do not get this right, everything else will crash and burn.

Matthew 1:21 " and she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people FROM their sins.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 1:21 " and she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people FROM their sins.

Yep
He was the lamb of god who takes away the sin of the world

He took away the penalty of sin, if he did not, your doomed, and you have no hope non of us do.

 

[Deuteronomy]

A born again can loss his salvation if he or she did not guide his salvation with fear & trembling. If a born again place his hand on the plague and look back he or she is not qualify for d kingdom. If u are born again u now later go back to your sinful nature u have loss it

Hi Agbarogi, in John 10, Jesus said this concerning 1. unbelievers and 2. believers (His sheep):

John 10​

26 "You do not believe because you are not of My sheep.​

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;​

28 and I give ~eternal~ life to them, and they will ~never~ perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."​

If someone who has truly been "born again" can somehow become UN-born and lose their salvation, was Jesus wrong to tell us what He did in John 10

Thanks!

~Deut

 

[Deuteronomy]

A born again can lose his salvation...

Hi again Agbarogi, I have one more thought along the same lines. In John 6, Jesus tells us this:

John 6​

37 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.​

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.​

39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.​

40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”​

So, in summary, Jesus tells us: ALL that the Father gives Me WILL come to Me, and ... of ALL that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.

If those of us who have been drawn and given to Jesus by His Father can lose our salvation and be lost forever then, again, do you think Jesus was wrong when He told us what He did in John 6, because He tells us plainly that He loses NONE who are His

Also, if you believe that someone who is truly "born again" (IOW, not a CINO) can lose his/her salvation, then how can that belief be reconciled with what Jesus tells us in the passage above from John 6?

Thanks again!

~Deut

 

[BibletruthSOP]

Hi BibletruthSOP, considering that no one was able to do that (as the people of Israel proved over and over and over again in the OT), how can the command to STOP SINNING be the Good News? What is “good” about it if no one can do it?

Thanks!

~Deut

Genesis 15​

6 Abraham believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.​

It definitely is not good news if no one can do it, and no one, of themselves, can do it. And no one is asked to do it of themselves. Salvation is in Christ. Complete restoration is the purpose and goal of the gospel, and Jesus CAN do it and DOES do it, if we allow. The purpose of the plan of salvation is complete restoration, in fact, actually, not make believe. No make believe righteousness will be in heaven. Concentrate on the verses "LET", such as let this mind be in you which is in Christ Jesus, and ask for faith. The bible specifically speaks to us-LET this mind be in you which is in Christ Jesus. Just contemplate a little what that actually means if I have the mind of Christ. Bottom line, it obviously means no sin. We must look away from self and to Christ. He never fails.

 

[BibletruthSOP]

I go with what Jesus said about this issue.

OSAS
John 10 NIV
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

John 10 AMPC
24 So the Jews surrounded Him and began asking Him, How long are You going to keep us in doubt and suspense? If You are really the Christ (the Messiah), tell us so plainly and openly.
25 Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father’s name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me].
26 But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine].
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.
31 Again the Jews brought up stones to stone Him.
32 Jesus said to them, My Father has enabled Me to do many good deeds. [I have shown many acts of mercy in your presence.] For which of these do you mean to stone Me?

The issue, if this is about OSAS/Eternal security, is what if a free will person stops hearing His voice and listens to Satans voice, and/or stops following Jesus. Watch and pray.

 

[dcontroversal]

a born-again Christian can never lose their salvation

to illustrate: a child can ask "what does born mean?", or "what does being physically born mean?" even though the child is already physically born, in the same way, just because a Christian can ask "what does receive mean?" just because of the mere difficulty in understanding it, and nothing else. Even with confusion in terminologies, Christians can still be saved.

if a child forgot his/her physical birthday, does that mean the child was never physically born to begin with? that's absurd. The same way, even if Christians forgot the day of their salvation, they can still be saved

for a married couple, if they are unable to make the vow the same way they did at the wedding, does that mean that they cease to be married? Definitely not, since that's not "grounds for divorce" and God hates divorce anyway. The same way, even if you are unable to pray the sinner's prayer like you did on the day of salvation you can still be saved.

if there's fights and arguments in marriage, does that mean that the married couple cease to be married? Again, for the same reason that you will have ups and downs in your walk with Jesus, but still, you can still be saved.

if a seedling bear no fruit, does that mean that ... ok, you get my point, it takes time to bear fruits, but still, you can still be saved.

any more illustrations will be more than welcomed in this thread, thank you

The gifts (plural) and calling (singular) of God are IRREVOCABLE <---this word is clear.....Salvation is a GIFT OF GOD and he only CALLS us to salvation <--Those he called he saved and justified and the folllwing is clear....

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

So are the words ETERNAL AND EVERLASTING......WHICH DO NOT MEAN TEMPORAL BASED UPON SERVICE

 

[BibletruthSOP]

Hi again Agbarogi, I have one more thought along the same lines. In John 6, Jesus tells us this:

John 6​

37 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.​

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.​

39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.​

40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”​

So, in summary, Jesus tells us: ALL that the Father gives Me WILL come to Me, and ... of ALL that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.

If those of us who have been drawn and given to Jesus by His Father can lose our salvation and be lost forever then, again, do you think Jesus was wrong when He told us what He did in John 6, because He tells us plainly that He loses NONE who are His

Also, if you believe that someone who is truly "born again" (IOW, not a CINO) can lose his/her salvation, then how can that belief be reconciled with what Jesus tells us in the passage above from John 6?

Thanks again!

~Deut

All these verses are conditional "everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life" . The discussion is what if the beholding/believing stops (understanding that believing means obeying)? "beholds" means now, "believes in him" means now.

 

[Deuteronomy]

All these verses are conditional "everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life" . The discussion is what if the beholding/believing stops (understanding that believing means obeying)? "beholds" means now, "believes in him" means now.

Hi again BibletruthSOP, Jesus tells us that He loses none of those who are His, NONE that the Father draws and gives to Him. If even one of us is lost, what could Jesus have possibly meant when He told us plainly, I LOSE NOTHING, or when He tells us that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life (not temporal, conditional or probationary life)?

If Jesus loses any of us who are His, any who are 'truly' His sheep, how can He possibly say, I LOSE NOTHING

Thanks!

~Deut
p.s. - sadly/frighteningly, MANY are deceived (or are deceivers) concerning their salvation .. e.g. Matthew 7:22-23, 13:24-30, 36-43 cf 1 John 2:19, but Jesus will say to all of these, "I ~NEVER~ knew you". IOW, they were never His from the get-go, but are, in fact, only CINO's/posers according to the Bible.
.

 

[mailmandan]

All these verses are conditional "everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life". The discussion is what if the beholding/believing stops (understanding that believing means obeying)? "beholds" means now, "believes in him" means now.

Believing is the condition and results in having eternal life and also, authentic believing continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. Also, believing does not mean obeying. Obeying may be a manifestation of believing, yet the Greek word for "believe" is "pisteuo" which means to have faith in/trust in/be persuaded of/place confidence in. - https://biblehub.com/greek/4100.htm

Obedience which follows is works. The error of "defining" believing as "obedience/works" results in salvation by works.

 

[mailmandan]

Salvation is a GIFT OF GOD and he only CALLS us to salvation <--Those he called he saved and justified

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty.

 

[Agbarogi]

Practically speaking I have seen and experience it there are those that got saved but along the road they felt they cannot continue they yeld to d temptation of the devil they want to enjoy d pleasure of sin

 

[Didymous]

Practically speaking I have seen and experience it there are those that got saved but along the road they felt they cannot continue they yeld to d temptation of the devil they want to enjoy d pleasure of sin

You don't know if they were saved. Only God knows that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The issue, if this is about OSAS/Eternal security, is what if a free will person stops hearing His voice and listens to Satans voice, and/or stops following Jesus. Watch and pray.

You have to explain why people lose faith in someone who NEVER EVER lets them down.

You lose faith in losers, people who always fail you. People who never are there when you need them. If thatt who you think God is, you have major problems.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All these verses are conditional "everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life" . The discussion is what if the beholding/believing stops (understanding that believing means obeying)? "beholds" means now, "believes in him" means now.

Negative, It says the one who believes has eternal life

If they HAVE eternal life. It can not be lost. Otherwise, it is not eternal.

Your preaching conditional life my friend. God offers eternal life. I pray you take God up on his offer.

John 6 also says they will never die, will life forever, Will be ressurected on the last day. Will never be lost. And HAS eternal life.

Because they at the food which endures forever. The food never dies my friend, thats why you do not have to keep eatingh, like their fathers who ate manna and died. Whoever eats this food will NEVER die.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Practically speaking I have seen and experience it there are those that got saved but along the road they felt they cannot continue they yeld to d temptation of the devil they want to enjoy d pleasure of sin

How do you know they got saved?

Scripture answers. A DOG returns to their OWN VOMIT (sin)

A dog was never transformed, and never created into a new creature. He may be able to act like a christian for a time, and people not even know he is faking it, But they will eventually return to their vomit, because you can not change who they are.

 

[dcontroversal]

You have to explain why people lose faith in someone who NEVER EVER lets them down.

You lose faith in losers, people who always fail you. People who never are there when you need them. If thatt who you think God is, you have major problems.

I will never buy his line of reasoning, Fran peddled the same blather.....

JESUS BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES THE WORK OF FAITH IN US....and we are KEPT BY THE POWER OF God through said faith

To believe what they peddle....

a. Jesus will fail in finishing and completing his work of faith in us

b. The power of God must fail

It is foolish to believe the nonsense they peddle!!