A Financial Faux Pas or a Fiend -- Who Should Have Paid for What on This Date?

[shittim]

71 was a very good year, not much of any garbage on it to pump filth back into the engine.

 

[seoulsearch]

Something I think most miss in the comparison from then till now is that the vast majority back then could afford to buy land and build a house,buy a new car and eat and still have money left each month. Today both the husband and wife work and both their checks combined isn't enough to survive. Another is that the things we bought were not disposable like they are today so we didn't have to replace them over and over. I still have a 1971 f100,still runs and cant see me replacing it with a new disposable truck.

I definitely think every generation has its own pros and cons. I used to ask my grandfather about what things were like "in his day" because he remembered the transition from horse-drawn buggies to automobiles, and the first time he saw lights (electricity) in their house as he was walking home from school.

He told me about the times when gas was 5 gallons for a dollar... But when I also asked what wages were like back then, he said that he could remember when a good wage (in the farming community) was about $2 per day -- not per hour, but for a whole day. I'm not sure if that corresponds with the time that gas was 5g/$1, but one thing made me think about is how everything is relative.

I do agree that at least back then, more families could survive with just the husband working. And I remember my grandparents' old washing machine that kicked out after something like 30 years.

I certainly wish that things were built the way I've been told they used to be, but then I also have to wonder what would happen to people's jobs and how they would survive. If companies built products that actually lasted, how many people would then be out of a job because of it? If everyone's washers and dryers lasted 30 years, how will companies make enough money to survive 30 years until their customers come back (or decide to buy from the competition?) Unfortunately, it seems like a neverending vicious cycle.

Disposable products seem unethical, and yet they keep people perpetually employed.

I also often wonder about what kinds of things went on behind closed doors that people chose to deny or cover up more than they do today. Last year I had some conversations with a woman in her late-80's and for her, and she told me, "Don't believe everything you hear, because the good old days were terrible."

This woman had a sister who was known to be extremely beautiful, even from childhood, and a male relative was constantly asking her family to bring her over for the weekend. This woman was telling me that in those days (at least where she grew up in the midwest,) no one believed that anyone could be attracted to children or would cause them harm. But her father suspected this male relative's true intent, and never allowed any of his girls to go over to his house. She said that others in the family criticized her father for his choice, thinking he was crazy or being unreasonable for not trusting "family," but she credited him for saving them from abuse.

And this was in a close-knit town of Christian farming families.

Another man I talked to in his 60's said that as an adult, he realized his family was rampant with sexual abuse and that every female member of his family had been victimized in some way -- but no one ever talked about it and buried themselves in their work instead. When he tried to ask questions about what had happened, he was met with fits of rage and a firm declaration that he was never to bring the subject up again.

I'm certainly not saying this went on in every household, but when people talk about the good old days, I'm always wondering.

Like any time in history, there can be a lot of good -- but also a lot of bad that gets swept under the carpet, but often surfaces decades later.

 

[Lynx]

Still not sure how we got off into the good ole days, but...

One old guy was talking about memories of when he was a kid, lying in the back window of his grandpa's old car as they went down to the general store for some sausage. "But I also remember the car didn't have any air conditioning and the general store's meat department didn't have any kind of sanitary code at all. No way do I want to go back to those days!"

 

[iamsoandso]

I definitely think every generation has its own pros and cons. I used to ask my grandfather about what things were like "in his day" because he remembered the transition from horse-drawn buggies to automobiles, and the first time he saw lights (electricity) in their house as he was walking home from school.

He told me about the times when gas was 5 gallons for a dollar... But when I also asked what wages were like back then, he said that he could remember when a good wage (in the farming community) was about $2 per day -- not per hour, but for a whole day. I'm not sure if that corresponds with the time that gas was 5g/$1, but one thing made me think about is how everything is relative.

I do agree that at least back then, more families could survive with just the husband working. And I remember my grandparents' old washing machine that kicked out after something like 30 years.

I certainly wish that things were built the way I've been told they used to be, but then I also have to wonder what would happen to people's jobs and how they would survive. If companies built products that actually lasted, how many people would then be out of a job because of it? If everyone's washers and dryers lasted 30 years, how will companies make enough money to survive 30 years until their customers come back (or decide to buy from the competition?) Unfortunately, it seems like a neverending vicious cycle.

Disposable products seem unethical, and yet they keep people perpetually employed.

I also often wonder about what kinds of things went on behind closed doors that people chose to deny or cover up more than they do today. Last year I had some conversations with a woman in her late-80's and for her, and she told me, "Don't believe everything you hear, because the good old days were terrible."

This woman had a sister who was known to be extremely beautiful, even from childhood, and a male relative was constantly asking her family to bring her over for the weekend. This woman was telling me that in those days (at least where she grew up in the midwest,) no one believed that anyone could be attracted to children or would cause them harm. But her father suspected this male relative's true intent, and never allowed any of his girls to go over to his house. She said that others in the family criticized her father for his choice, thinking he was crazy or being unreasonable for not trusting "family," but she credited him for saving them from abuse.

And this was in a close-knit town of Christian farming families.

Another man I talked to in his 60's said that as an adult, he realized his family was rampant with sexual abuse and that every female member of his family had been victimized in some way -- but no one ever talked about it and buried themselves in their work instead. When he tried to ask questions about what had happened, he was met with fits of rage and a firm declaration that he was never to bring the subject up again.

I'm certainly not saying this went on in every household, but when people talk about the good old days, I'm always wondering.

Like any time in history, there can be a lot of good -- but also a lot of bad that gets swept under the carpet, but often surfaces decades later.

Types of abuse(spouse,child ect.) are something that have always taken place in history and at present. On today's news there was a story about sexual abuse in a Southern Baptist Church. If you consider the list of things mentioned as things to look for in Church elders by Paul and others(not given to much wine,not known as a brawler, given to one wife,, good report in the community ect.) it should stand as proofs that abusive people have existed in every generation. Not that I am trivializing anyone's statement of abuse because to anyone who was abused in any form it makes sense that they would not see those days as "the good old days" and would regard the days when they were safe as the good days of their life.

I apologize if it seems that I have gone off track from the OP but to me the good old days began at a time most certainly touching the cowboy days in that my grand parents were born in the mid to late 1800's. My great grandmother whom I knew as a child was born in Georgia, in 1867 shortly after the civil war. My father and mother both lived through the great depression but most of my mothers family died in the swine flu pandemic in the early 1900's. My fathers family lived on a farm given to them by grant during the depression and he worked for a neighboring farm plowing behind a mule for a dime a day, sun up till sundown seven days a week. I said to him when he told me that that was horrible and he corrected me and told me they were blessed because seventy cents was enough to feed a family of eight and still buy shoes. I got in trouble when I was a boy by calling a man a "granny dodger",I had picked it up from my grandfather because he always called people either a granny dodger or a buzzard. My mother explained to me those were bad words from the old days and that a buzzard eats dead things and was disgraceful to call someone but a granny dodger was the worst thing you could call a man because it meant he hired a midwife(granny lady) to deliver his child but would duck into one of the stores if he saw her walking down the sidewalk because he didn't pay her,,,hence the name granny dodger.

In 1967 they signed a contract in Choctaw county Mississippi to run the electricity into the towns there but they started first by running them to the court house,police station,post office ect. ... All of the houses were built before electricity came there so they were built around the fireplace and with windows that were planned to so you could open them and let the cross breeze go through the house( little pulleys with cast iron weights held them up). Most near every house had two kitchens, one for the summer and another for the winter. The outhouse was outside and the girls all kept slop buckets in their rooms and emptied them in the morning. The back porch was built off the end of the winter kitchen and was also the summer kitchen until we got electricity and then we could remodel it into an indoor bathroom. Most people did at that time but I admit thinking to myself it don't make sense to put the bathroom right by the kitchen but we all did. All this happened when electricity came available,, we took the old black and white spotted cloth wire and ran it across the ceiling and down the walls and had the old brown leviathan wall switches and plugs mounted right up high enough the kids couldn't touch them(think house built before electricity with no wires in the walls)...

Then came the ice boxes but at first they used dry ice,then both then they had the ones with ammonia in them but they were real dangerous. At first most people just stayed with the smokehouse for meats and we would take milk and put it in a jar and tie a string around it and lower it into the water well. Then everybody got radios and at first it was okay but looking back that's where it all started to really change. It was like a little voice in the background always saying things. After that everyone in town started talking about the things going on all over the place that we had never heard of and everyone's ideas began to change and the "good old days were gone"...
Anyway next time you think about splitting the meal tell him right up front it ain't no game, if he says anything other than it's all on him he's playing a game. There's the farm set for you, you will always know who loves you and who you love both by the farm set. If he's really interested in you everything he will do will be about the farm set. He will be looking at lawnmowers because he's gonna need one to mow the lawn with right? He will look at tools because his mind is set on fixing the car and house for you right? Now turn it around and look at your own self what would you need curtains,dishes,,,pictures to hang on the wall? That's the whole truth about the good old days in that you could tell who really loved you because everything you saw them doing was collecting the pieces of the farm set for you. And you really knew you loved them because all you could think about was all the pieces of the farm set you needed in your life together.

 

[Sculpt]

Hey Everyone,

I was reading a financial advice column in which a female reader presented this scenario:

She went on a first date with a guy, and they had agreed to split the check. But while they both had similarly-priced meals, he also ordered $40 worth of drinks for himself. And when the check came he only paid half, without offering to pay any extra or even for the full tip, even though the majority of the expense was his.

Now please note that I am NOT trying to make this a gender issue at all. It could have easily been reversed, with the woman expecting the man to pay more for the bill.

But I could easily relate to this and I would guess that many people here have been through the same thing.

Several years ago, the daughter of a prominent couple at church had just moved back into the area, and I told her I'd like to take her to lunch sometime as a welcome back. (I am also a gal, so obviously it was just a friend getting together with a friend and not a date.) We went to some kind of Applebee's-type restaurant, and when I told her I would pay, a similar thing happened -- along with her lunch, she started ordering drinks (at around $10 a piece.) She started with one, then ordered another when the food came, and when she started to order her third, I told her that I'd pay for her lunch and the first two but the rest of her drinks were on her. Like the girl in the advice column, I usually drink tap water -- that's not a judgment, that's just saying, if I offer to pay for someone's meal, I'm not figuring in 3 rounds of drinks along with it.

So the issue I am presenting here is NOT about gender, and it's NOT about alcohol (which is of course a whole other topic,) but rather, the issue is about someone trying to take financial advantage of you.

The scenario doesn't have to involve alcohol at all -- what if the other person ordered $50 worth of food and you order $20, and they expect you to split it down the middle? Or how about if you go out with family and they expect you to pay an even portion of the bill, even though your order cost less than what they want you to pay?

What have you done in these kinds of situations, or how would you handle it if you were?

As a man, if I ask a woman out to dinner, or whatever, I expect to pay it all. She scores points if she offers to pay the tip... or split it especially if it's a few dates down the road. If she doesn't, it speaks to her character. She apparently wants to be bought.

If a woman asks a man out, she should expect to pay it all. I've yet to hear of this happening. Has anyone?

If I offer to take a friend out to dinner (like the scenario you mention, Seoul, "I told her I'd like to take her to lunch"), then I would just pay it, no matter how many drinks they order. I'm not going to make an issue out of it. But I will note it for that person's character... positives if they pick up the tip, and negatives if it's something extreme... like ordering an expensive bottle of wine, ordering drinks for others, or food to take home.

If we agree to split the check, that's it, done deal. I know what kind of restaurant im going to. They can order whatever's on the menu, however many drinks... I want them to enjoy themselves! I'm not going to be petty about one sit down. They have to go pretty crazy for me to "take note" of that situation for the future.

Plus, I don't get the "split the check" thing anyway. What, are you trying to be kind to the wait-staff? I don't think they care. The only thing I've ever done with a friend is one of us will cover the whole check, and next time we switch.

 

[seoulsearch]

If a woman asks a man out, she should expect to pay it all. I've yet to hear of this happening. Has anyone?

It truly makes me sad that the concept of a woman paying is apparently completely foreign to most men.

Yes, I've asked guys out and of course I'm prepared to pay. Last year I asked a guy to a major theme park and you don't want to know how much it cost for the tickets and then the express passes to not have to wait in the 2-hour lines. But I wanted him to have a good time, and yes, I paid. I just see it as, so I have to work some extra hours -- it's no big deal to me.

I'm a pretty simple girl whose parents always told her to set money aside for a rainy day. I'm not trying to dock women at all because I'm a woman myself, but I've had female co-workers ask, hint, or complain about not having money and they're doing so while holding up their daily Starbucks coffee with their salon nails, $300 highlights glistening in their hair, clutching their fake Louis Vuitton purses, and fluttering their expensive false eyelashes. I'm not saying it's wrong to spend money on any of that. I'm just saying, when someone like that tries to ask me for money, I decline, and I think about a gentle way that I could say, "You DO have money. You're just wearing and sipping it all." I don't mean that as a judgment, just a shift in priorities that maybe they were never taught.

Likewise, any time I've accepted a date, I'm prepared to pay and always offer to pay for myself. And if the guy sits and talks the whole time about how his ex-wife and/or every other woman he's been around has taken him to the cleaners, I ask the waiter for the whole check at the end, because I don't want to be just another woman he sees as a lecherous money-hungry vampire.

But I also don't out with him a second time, because if that's how he sees all women, I know I have no hope of being the one to change his mind. Nor do I have the patience to try anymore (I did when I was younger, but God has had to kick me past some hurts and I look for others who are in a similar stage of life.)

I don't know if you saw the thread about a small CC meetup in April where it was mentioned that the men in the group cooked and paid for several meals that they made for us all. But when we went to a couple of places, one woman paid for all the tickets for the escape room we went to, and another woman paid for all the tickets to the aquarium, and that included tickets for the men. The ladies also always offered to help pay for gas, etc. No one was left footing an extra bill for anyone else.

I'm happy to say that all the single female friends I have are like this -- though we also don't have any kids, which definitely frees up a bit more disposable income. If I were a single parent, I probably wouldn't want to date if I couldn't pay for myself (I'm only speaking for myself here -- I'm definitely not saying how this it should be for everyone or for other single parents.)

But of the female friends I have, we most certainly do not believe in taking advantage of men in any way, not even if they ask us out on dates. I appreciate a guy who insists on paying, but I'm always prepared to take care of myself, and even him as well, and I know that especially in today's economy, expecting someone to pay for you might even be a bit unrealistic.

 

[Kireina]

Here's what I'm going to do....I'll pay even if the person will order 5 drinks or more expensive food than mine...because I was the one who offered to treat the person...so for me that's fine...


The other scenario is when that person is forcing me to treat them I can only treat the person one meal or one drink more than that maybe I'll still pay but it will be uncomfortable already on my part it happened to me...not once...but always till I decided to distance myself from those friends....



Last Sunday my bestfriend and her husband visited me... they travelled from Singapore to where I am.... and I happily offered to treat them(no limits) I was so happy to see them full, satisfied and enjoyed the food

 

[Lanolin]

Something I think most miss in the comparison from then till now is that the vast majority back then could afford to buy land and build a house,buy a new car and eat and still have money left each month. Today both the husband and wife work and both their checks combined isn't enough to survive. Another is that the things we bought were not disposable like they are today so we didn't have to replace them over and over. I still have a 1971 f100,still runs and cant see me replacing it with a new disposable truck.

i dont think you can compare different times because firstly, there was no land to be bought and sold in times before that, this is only a 'new world' phenomenon where land is a commodity
in the very old days for centuries people did not buy and sell land ...it was either inherited or fought over (conquered and invaded)
homes were often temporary unless it was an earthern home that could last for centuries made of mud and brick
people did not have cars they didnt need them...people lived in villages where it was all in walking distance and long journeys were by ship or on a horse

but people dont take the long view of history. They think everything is as is now because they bought the land. But just as people buy the land, people also sell it.

or take hospitality. People think you with enough money, you can buy hospitality
in days gone by, hospitality was not something you charged for. You gave it even though it cost you a huge amount to provide for your guests in terms of labour involved in feeding and watering your guests.

it was expected that when you did that, people might do that for you in return whenever you were hungry and weary traveller

 

[Lanolin]

the way the modern world is now is unnatural for a lot of people because everything has its price and for many its not soething they are willing to pay (who gets the profit, not you obviously!)

If you were hosting someone in your own home you do not charge them per drink. You would provide whatver it is an encoruage them to eat and drink as much as you can provide, for some it would be rude to only eat and drink a small amount then leave the host with heaps of leftovers

likewise as a guest it would be rude to eat aboslutely everything in sight and not leave something for the host an other guests or the dog! This is why people bring something to the party whether a gift or koha, unless the host says dont bring anything just yourself.

the other is on dress, you make the effort to dress nicely if its a party if the occasion calls for it.

Ok so in terms of dates why women often dont pay for food... Dates I think thats a given and women might even spend $1000 or upwards on an outfit to look nice because maybe photos will be taken etc and nobody wants a bad photo, so, I guess a meal thats perhaps $50 is a small price to pay in comparison for looking at someone who endured six months of beauty treatments lol

I mean that is the cost of some of it in reality..shoes $250 dress $250 hair $80 makeups $100 handbag $250
underwears (if its lingerie, its expensive) $150 jewellery...$???

if you wanted to be specific on the price women pay for looking good

 

[BrotherMike]

Hey Everyone,

I was reading a financial advice column in which a female reader presented this scenario:

She went on a first date with a guy, and they had agreed to split the check. But while they both had similarly-priced meals, he also ordered $40 worth of drinks for himself. And when the check came he only paid half, without offering to pay any extra or even for the full tip, even though the majority of the expense was his.

Now please note that I am NOT trying to make this a gender issue at all. It could have easily been reversed, with the woman expecting the man to pay more for the bill.

But I could easily relate to this and I would guess that many people here have been through the same thing.

Several years ago, the daughter of a prominent couple at church had just moved back into the area, and I told her I'd like to take her to lunch sometime as a welcome back. (I am also a gal, so obviously it was just a friend getting together with a friend and not a date.) We went to some kind of Applebee's-type restaurant, and when I told her I would pay, a similar thing happened -- along with her lunch, she started ordering drinks (at around $10 a piece.) She started with one, then ordered another when the food came, and when she started to order her third, I told her that I'd pay for her lunch and the first two but the rest of her drinks were on her. Like the girl in the advice column, I usually drink tap water -- that's not a judgment, that's just saying, if I offer to pay for someone's meal, I'm not figuring in 3 rounds of drinks along with it.

So the issue I am presenting here is NOT about gender, and it's NOT about alcohol (which is of course a whole other topic,) but rather, the issue is about someone trying to take financial advantage of you.

The scenario doesn't have to involve alcohol at all -- what if the other person ordered $50 worth of food and you order $20, and they expect you to split it down the middle? Or how about if you go out with family and they expect you to pay an even portion of the bill, even though your order cost less than what they want you to pay?

What have you done in these kinds of situations, or how would you handle it if you were?

What I would do is...

First date.. man pays for the full meal regardless if the date went well or not. He is courting her. If it was just friends then the person ordering drinks and or a lot more food should pay up for that and not split the drinks/more food portion of the bill.