A Genesis debate re.

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Who are the "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2


  • Total voters
    17
I don't know Kenisyes,
All I think is there was some strange mutant things going on preflood.
For one thing, the atmosphere was dense, like twice the oxygen.
There was a layer of water way up in the high atmosphere. The whole thing was like a greenhouse.
That's why thing grew so big, plus I believe people did live very long lives.
Can you imagine how and unrepentant sinner who is healthy for hundreds of years....
how evil they could get?
It stands out the righteousness of Enoch and later Noah.
But I don't know.
Do tell more.

Where is your evidence that the atmosphere was different? The man found in the ice was possibly pre-flood, there were no body differences such as these atmospheric differences would cause. Ancient burial mounds show bodies no different from ours. Or about the water high up? These are theories put forward by young earth scientists, and are based on inadequately translated bits of (usually not even Hebrew) bible verses. If you think our patriarchs lived a long time, take a look at the Sumerian King lists; those guys lived tens of thousands of years. I think these are games with numbers, based on a royal year.

My ideas are based on remnants of ancient technology actually found or pictured in various cylinder seals, tombs, etc. and written about. Check out Eccl. 1:10-11. Let's start with something simple. In 1890 or so, a curious box of gears was found on an old sunken Greek ship. The British museum finally had a guest identify it in 1955, because the guest was an expert in the "new" invention. It was a navigational computer. You can look it up; the antikythera device. Something harder: the shamir. The shamir sounds like a lot of drivel. It is a "living creature" that melts stone. Except when the Jews talk about it, they give a perfect description of laser engraving. Something really hard: the Dead Sea Scrolls speak of the use of the urim and thummim, and match Josephus. Bible commentaries say these things were a pair of dice the priests rolled to determine the will of God. Except the two sources I give, make them sound like some kind of mind reading machine (I hate to use that word, but it's the closest concept our science has). The thummim takes the prayer vibes from the congregation and shoots them into the air making a cloud; the urim shoots electrical energy into the cloud. Then there's the claim that they were still working in Jesus' time! Then there's the battery factory from 600 BC Bagdad. You see, there's a lot of provable ancient technology that we ourselves could not have recognized 100 years ago, and more that could possibly be there now, that we can't see because we haven't reinvented it yet. So, when I see a cylinder seal with Innanna holding a baby on her knee in an apothecary shop, and Sumerian writings talking about gods creating new gods, I have to wonder.

My personal belief is that through deals with fallen angels, certain people achieved great scientific abilities, including genetic manipulation. [Greek sources (like Hesiod and Ovid's Metamorphoses) say specifically that they created giants to keep the people in line, but do not tell us how.] I think these were people of great technological prowess, who enslaved the other people, and did much evil. They were called "gods" by most of the world, but "sons of God" and "gebarim" - "mighty ones" by the Bible, since God does not want us to be confused as to who is really in charge. God understandably got angry, the technology malfunctioned, and blew up the world, creating the flood in the process. God was on top of it, as always, and warned Noah in time to save the remnant. The whole story took about 900 years. [We ourselves have gone from witchcraft and alchemy to the technology we have now in about 400 years.] The theory is consistent with archeology, ancient writings of every culture I have checked, and most importantly with the Bible. Of course, it is just my opinion. I can't prove it any more than the young earth people can prove there was a water canopy hanging in the air, or that the oxygen was higher.
 
Potassium-argon dating. It depletes into argon by oxidation.
They have found there was a much faster depletion rate
in the past by studying rock cores.
The water mantle in the atmosphere is referred to in II Peter 3:5.
Also the electromagnetic strength of the earth's poles has been measured since 1857.
It is weakening. Thousands of years ago it would have been strong enough to
produce a gravitational force to support a layer of water or water vapor in the upper atmosphere.
 
Potassium-argon dating. It depletes into argon by oxidation.
1. They have found there was a much faster depletion rate
in the past by studying rock cores.
2. The water mantle in the atmosphere is referred to in II Peter 3:5.
3. Also the electromagnetic strength of the earth's poles has been measured since 1857.
It is weakening. Thousands of years ago it would have been strong enough to
produce a gravitational force to support a layer of water or water vapor in the upper atmosphere.

1. Rock accumulations and radioactivity prove nothing about before the flood. Plato, the Mayan accounts, and Fasold's Ark-find all lead to the idea that the flood was also a magnetic storm with liquid rock moving around and reorganizing itself. (Not Scriptural, but Scripture gives us no reason to discount it.) If true, the measurements tell us only effects from the flood itself, not before the flood.
2. The Greek is "ek" water and "dia" water. Strong's gives the translation as "created to stand out of the water (like beaches) and created by means of water (the Spirit of God moving over the waters)". The mantle in the atmosphere would require it say "above water" and "under water".
3. Or it is in the downward part of a cycle? This is more likely, since the earth's weather has a multi-century cycle and we are on the increase of that since the 1850's.
 
The magnetic pull of the earth is caused by iron ore at it's core,
I agree that the earth goes through weather cycles - but this has to do with sun activity,
not the earth's EM force....unless that also has something to do with the sun's gravitational pull.
When was the first rain? How did water vapor enter the atmosphere pre-flood?
It came up from the ground.
 
Here are some samples of how big things grew preflood:

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Cockroach fossil.


Meganeura_fossil.JPG

Giant dragonfly - 2.5 ft. wingspan

I wonder how these insects got so big, way back then?
 
If there were experiments to create giants, as the ancient non-Biblical sources imply happened, and experiments were done on birds and lizards to create dinosaurs for practice, the insects could have gotten caught up in the same treatments. One way to settle it might be an actual percentage count: how many such fossils have been found? There are a relatively small number of dinosaurs, but the Bible and archeology document several cities of giants, and the hybridized fruit and furniture and tools to go with them. The relative size of what you show of the cockroach(giant 9-15 feet, human 7 feet tops) is almost identical. I have personally been bumped into by 7inch wingspan insects here in Delaware; I've heard of larger ones in Africa today. Dinosaurs are much larger than lizards due to the different type of dna and how it manufactures their inner organs; they can live at larger sizes where human beings die of complications.
 
Have you considered that the giants in the land are fallen mankind?
Think for a moment, Saul was (from the shoulders up,,, this gives the answer to Sauls height over other men.... "FROM THE SHOULDERS UP" ........ Saul was the same height at the shoulders as other men, so why did he tower over other men? HE WAS HIGH AND LOFTY MINDED, the old nature is indeed high minded and considers it's self above God and His simple Covenant of LOVE.

So here is the point, the sons of God............ all men are indeed created in His image. The fallen sons of God are simply THE FALLEN HIGH MINDED NATURE OF THE SEED SATAN PLANTED INTO THE FIRST HUMAN CREATED.


God bless
 
I think there was more oxygen in the atmosphere.
That is why things grew so big.
I do think that fallen angels did genetic engineering to pollute the
genepool of mankind, but I think this was just to prevent
the promised child from appearing.
I think the only reason we have any evidence of the size of these
insects is because of the rapid burial and slow drying out process that
a catastrophic flood would present.
I'm most assured that the 'sons of God' were fallen angels trying to stop
the promise(Jesus) from coming, by mixing some of their own creation into the species.
I also think that this is the reason for tales of atlantis and the men of great renown.
(I mean read it: Genesis 6:4 - "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also
after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare(notice how the word "children" is added)
to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."
In other words they didn't bare 'children' to them.....they bore something else......a mutant species.
This was a big reason why God HAD to destroy the place.
Notice how almost all crops are genetically modified?
"As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man."
 
Here are some samples of how big things grew preflood:


I wonder how these insects got so big, way back then?

Pre flood sure, but how pre. It was longer then the flood those fossils date back millions of years
 
in Gen 6: 2 one has to read the whole chapter to understand what is being said here. starting from verse 1. It says that " And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them. Verse two says 2. That "the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose" KJV.


remember what has happen in the CHAPTERS prior to this verse who are the sons of God? They are the relatives or descendants of Adam from Seth. Now Noah is in the picture and many years have passed from Seth to the coming of Noah thousands of years, and the mixing of people was happening. God in verse 3 of Chapter 6 says He is going to shorten the life span of man to 120 years, I have a Q? for you, if the sons of God are angels then how can their lives be shorten? remember the first verse of chapter 5 says " THIS IS the book of the generations of Adam. KJV

It is clear that the sons of God in this context are the people of God and the daughters of man are not the people of God, and the people of God " sons of God" took ungodly women as their wives. Sound familiar?

David, Solomon, Samson, etc...


Chapter 6 is God dealing with people and choosing people in His sovereignty to go forward with

Chapter 6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons wives with thee. The sons of God where not producing what He had planned the hearts of men were taken by the beautiful women of ungodly people and producing something other than what God wanted.


In context of chapter 5, and 6 of Genesis sons of God are not angels but the people of God.
 
remember what has happen in the CHAPTERS prior to this verse who are the sons of God? They are the relatives or descendants of Adam from Seth. Now Noah is in the picture and many years have passed from Seth to the coming of Noah thousands of years, and the mixing of people was happening. God in verse 3 of Chapter 6 says He is going to shorten the life span of man to 120 years, I have a Q? for you, if the sons of God are angels then how can their lives be shorten? remember the first verse of chapter 5 says " THIS IS the book of the generations of Adam. KJV

< that part is not talking about the angels anymore : / The angels are out of the picture in regards to that, how you connect them in there dose not fit. ??????????????????
 
The magnetic pull of the earth is caused by iron ore at it's core,
I agree that the earth goes through weather cycles - but this has to do with sun activity,
not the earth's EM force....unless that also has something to do with the sun's gravitational pull.
When was the first rain? How did water vapor enter the atmosphere pre-flood?
It came up from the ground.

I have some evidence that rain was manufactured by the sons of God. Mentions in ancient literature, a description and pictures of a mechanism (which could all be misinterpretations, of course), etc. Basically, lightning was stored in parallel streams of water like Ben Franklin did in a Leyden jar, collected through lightning rods on top of metal covered mounds. The circuit was inverted to charge the clouds. Tesla tried it around 1890, and wound up with some fairly impressive patents for other things. This is the source of the joining of weather and the earth's magnetic field. The vapor of Gen. 2:6 was before this.
 
remember what has happen in the CHAPTERS prior to this verse who are the sons of God? They are the relatives or descendants of Adam from Seth. Now Noah is in the picture and many years have passed from Seth to the coming of Noah thousands of years, and the mixing of people was happening. God in verse 3 of Chapter 6 says He is going to shorten the life span of man to 120 years, I have a Q? for you, if the sons of God are angels then how can their lives be shorten? remember the first verse of chapter 5 says " THIS IS the book of the generations of Adam. KJV

< that part is not talking about the angels anymore : / The angels are out of the picture in regards to that, how you connect them in there dose not fit. ??????????????????

the passages intent was that the flood would be in 120 years...not a mans lifespan
 
Have you considered that the giants in the land are fallen mankind?
Think for a moment, Saul was (from the shoulders up,,, this gives the answer to Sauls height over other men.... "FROM THE SHOULDERS UP" ........ Saul was the same height at the shoulders as other men, so why did he tower over other men? HE WAS HIGH AND LOFTY MINDED, the old nature is indeed high minded and considers it's self above God and His simple Covenant of LOVE.

So here is the point, the sons of God............ all men are indeed created in His image. The fallen sons of God are simply THE FALLEN HIGH MINDED NATURE OF THE SEED SATAN PLANTED INTO THE FIRST HUMAN CREATED.


God bless

This is a really good way to understand what the giants are symbolically. The problem is that there are just too many mentions across virtually all cultures of the ancient near east to believe they were not real. Repeatedly, archeological finds are reported, and all agree on the same size of person. I have seen a picture of giants standing next to regular people, from Assyria. Further, if you organize the stories chronologically, the giants lose brainpower with each passing century, as genetic misfits would be expected to.
 
This is a really good way to understand what the giants are symbolically. (God wants us to be spiritual, not symbolic) The problem is that there are just too many mentions across virtually all cultures of the ancient near east to believe they were not real. (Mankind desires to be above God, this makes man a GIANT in his own eyes!) Repeatedly, archeological finds are reported, (We will believe the report of The Lord) and all agree on the same size of person. (This is exactly what the Bible says... from his shoulders Saul was the same height as all men) I have seen a picture of giants (This is a STRONG delusion!) standing next to regular people, from Assyria. Further, if you organize the stories chronologically, the giants lose brainpower (And with less brain power the GIANTS loose height) with each passing century, as genetic misfits (All humans are misfits and are in need dire of The Savior) would be expected to.
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remember what has happen in the CHAPTERS prior to this verse who are the sons of God? They are the relatives or descendants of Adam from Seth. Now Noah is in the picture and many years have passed from Seth to the coming of Noah thousands of years, and the mixing of people was happening. God in verse 3 of Chapter 6 says He is going to shorten the life span of man to 120 years, I have a Q? for you, if the sons of God are angels then how can their lives be shorten? remember the first verse of chapter 5 says " THIS IS the book of the generations of Adam. KJV

< that part is not talking about the angels anymore : / The angels are out of the picture in regards to that, how you connect them in there dose not fit. ??????????????????

It was never talking about angels that is the point. sons of God are not angels in this verse. As far as the 120 you are correct.
 
1. God wants us to be spiritual, not symbolic
Jesus Himself used symbols in the parables. It is possible to be both.

2. Mankind desires to be above God, this makes man a GIANT in his own eyes.
Agreed, but that is one possible symbolic interpretation. Like in, "there is always the power of God like in David to cut you down to size".

3. We will believe the report of The Lord
Then I suppose you will believe the following reports: Gen. 6:4 states they were also, after. Num 13:33 proves the relative size, and 13:23 demonstrates that they had genetic manipulated grapes the same way (my commentary says they were still some growing that size in the 1600's AD). Deut. 2:11, 2:20, 3:11 gives an archeological find kept on display, and proves the size, 9:2, Josh. 12:4, 13:12, 17:15, 2 Sam 21:16-22 demonstrates a family, and genetic malformation. I choose what reports of others I believe by which agree with these.

4. and all agree on the same size of person. (This is exactly what the Bible says... from his shoulders Saul was the same height as all men
Saul's armor fit David, so he was not the size we have been discussing. To be of the size of Og or Goliath based on his shoulders and up, Saul would have had to have had a head four feet across.

5. This is a STRONG delusion!
Then is is an identical delusion among every nation in the Near East that has left records, and the illusion remains unchanged for 2200 years.

6. And with less brain power the GIANTS loose height
Do you have any evidence of that? I have never heard it, but I think it is likely. You do not want to establish Saul was a giant. He was too smart, for one thing, and if he were, he would have taken on Goliath himself. Besides, giants are not Israelites, and would not have been selected to head the country.

7. as genetic misfits All humans are misfits and are in need dire of The Savior
All humans are misfits for God's plan. But not genetic misfits, by definition of "genetic" in this case being the average human gene.
 
1. God wants us to be spiritual, not symbolic
Jesus Himself used symbols in the parables. It is possible to be both.

2. Mankind desires to be above God, this makes man a GIANT in his own eyes.
Agreed, but that is one possible symbolic interpretation. Like in, "there is always the power of God like in David to cut you down to size".

3. We will believe the report of The Lord
Then I suppose you will believe the following reports: Gen. 6:4 states they were also, after. Num 13:33 proves the relative size, and 13:23 demonstrates that they had genetic manipulated grapes the same way (my commentary says they were still some growing that size in the 1600's AD). Deut. 2:11, 2:20, 3:11 gives an archeological find kept on display, and proves the size, 9:2, Josh. 12:4, 13:12, 17:15, 2 Sam 21:16-22 demonstrates a family, and genetic malformation. I choose what reports of others I believe by which agree with these.

4. and all agree on the same size of person. (This is exactly what the Bible says... from his shoulders Saul was the same height as all men
Saul's armor fit David, so he was not the size we have been discussing. To be of the size of Og or Goliath based on his shoulders and up, Saul would have had to have had a head four feet across.

5. This is a STRONG delusion!
Then is is an identical delusion among every nation in the Near East that has left records, and the illusion remains unchanged for 2200 years.

6. And with less brain power the GIANTS loose height
Do you have any evidence of that? I have never heard it, but I think it is likely. You do not want to establish Saul was a giant. He was too smart, for one thing, and if he were, he would have taken on Goliath himself. Besides, giants are not Israelites, and would not have been selected to head the country.

7. as genetic misfits All humans are misfits and are in need dire of The Savior
All humans are misfits for God's plan. But not genetic misfits, by definition of "genetic" in this case being the average human gene.

Hey brother, can we talk about The Son and other Heavenly things ? God bless you richly
 
I have some evidence that rain was manufactured by the sons of God. Mentions in ancient literature, a description and pictures of a mechanism (which could all be misinterpretations, of course), etc. Basically, lightning was stored in parallel streams of water like Ben Franklin did in a Leyden jar, collected through lightning rods on top of metal covered mounds. The circuit was inverted to charge the clouds. Tesla tried it around 1890, and wound up with some fairly impressive patents for other things. This is the source of the joining of weather and the earth's magnetic field. The vapor of Gen. 2:6 was before this.


Excuse me, but fallen angels creating rain is ridiculous.
The first rain was the food, that's when the waters of the deep broke open. That's also when the water layer suspended in the upper atmosphere broke. When Peter was addressing the flood there is no other logical explanation for the phrase"standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished."- (II Peter 3:5pp,6) Did it rain during the flood or not? So all the water didn't come from beneath.
There is no way to invert static charge, (which is what lightning is). Tesla did alot of stuff.
But inverting static charges wasn't one of them. He used a generator to do experiments with sending electricity through the air(no hard wire conductor), and while doing this he employed low pressure fronts as a way to try to harness the potential difference(voltage) that accompanies the static charges in low pressure cloud systems. How successful he was we will probably never know.