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Z
Actually haven spoken with many scientists, they do not believe in the "Creative power of mother earth." They believe that evolution happened randomly over thousands of years and they have tons of evidence. I don't think that you can make calls about what people really believe unless you have talked to them. I think it is a tad arrogant to believe that all scientists really believe in "The creative power of mother earth."
The only evidence that creationists have is the bible. Scientists have carbon dating, examination of sediment levels and fossils, breeding of animals to enforce specific traits (most notably dogs), genetic similarities, and the effects of genetic mutations. The universe exists, but its existence does not point to a creator. The only thing the presence of the universe actually tells us is simply that it exists.
The idea of an "Evident intelligent design" implies evidence. I have some evidence for evolution: http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm
This website is associated with a research university. Universities are renowned for unbiased and accurate collection of data and research. This proves the credibility of the evidence.
The only evidence that creationists have is the bible. Scientists have carbon dating, examination of sediment levels and fossils, breeding of animals to enforce specific traits (most notably dogs), genetic similarities, and the effects of genetic mutations. The universe exists, but its existence does not point to a creator. The only thing the presence of the universe actually tells us is simply that it exists.
The idea of an "Evident intelligent design" implies evidence. I have some evidence for evolution: http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm
This website is associated with a research university. Universities are renowned for unbiased and accurate collection of data and research. This proves the credibility of the evidence.
C
Lets discuss this 'evidence' of evolution that you have brought up. Two seperate points actually, one genetic mutation; a mutation of a gene will not break through the barrier of species or kind. Mutation because they are destructive, damaging or completely destructive, a mutation is the destruction of genetic information, not a single mutated gene has ever been found to be beneficial to a species, as one Nobel Prize winning scientist stated "There are no genetic process that science knows of that could produce the changes required for the process of evolution." Genetic mutations have never been observed to improve, modify or make an organism more complex or efficient, not one convincing case exists. Mutations are abnormalites due to the destruction of genetic code, they are always detrimental to the species concerned. This completely exterminates any belief that evolution has happened via genetic mutation.
Dog breeding; for beginners is a very poor example of evolution, for the simple reason that an intelligent human is required to crossbreed dogs, one can hardly cite this as an example of 'unsupervised, random, impersonal, unpredictable, natural processes'. Futhermore dog breeders only produce variations within a given species, so selective breeding is not an example of natural selection, but it is an example of intelligent design. Variation does not constitute evidence for evolution because variations are the outcomes of different combinations of already existing genetic code, they do not add any new characteristic to the genetic information. Any variation in the gene pool of a species or sub-species when left alone to nature without specific human intelligence guidence will simply revert to type, the variation within the species, whether broad i.e. dogs or very small i.e. cheetahs is due to species spercific gene pool genetic code variation, no new code is created and neither can the code cross species DNA barrier.
Dog breeding; for beginners is a very poor example of evolution, for the simple reason that an intelligent human is required to crossbreed dogs, one can hardly cite this as an example of 'unsupervised, random, impersonal, unpredictable, natural processes'. Futhermore dog breeders only produce variations within a given species, so selective breeding is not an example of natural selection, but it is an example of intelligent design. Variation does not constitute evidence for evolution because variations are the outcomes of different combinations of already existing genetic code, they do not add any new characteristic to the genetic information. Any variation in the gene pool of a species or sub-species when left alone to nature without specific human intelligence guidence will simply revert to type, the variation within the species, whether broad i.e. dogs or very small i.e. cheetahs is due to species spercific gene pool genetic code variation, no new code is created and neither can the code cross species DNA barrier.
Z
Well you've challenged genetic mutation and dog breeding. I still think it's hard to confront carbon dating, sediment and fossil examinations and the fact that humans have genetics about 99.7% similar to that of chimpanzees.
I also still think that dog breeding serves as an excellent example of evolution. When two dogs are bred the resultant dog has a genetic mutation from that of its parents. This is usually not detrimental to the new kind of dog. This is an example where evolution is controlled by humans to enforce traits that humans want. In a state of nature, the environment kills off all species with traits that are not apt for survival, culling the favorable ones into prominence. Humans can breed dogs over the course of a few generations, but nature must breed species over the course of millions of years because nothing was planned.
It is also hard to ignore the similarities between wolves, dogs and foxes as they all share almost precisely similar genetics. No human breeding was done to create these genetic similarities, and yet they exist.
You will have to definitively challenge all points if you want the evidence to become "evidence."
I also still think that dog breeding serves as an excellent example of evolution. When two dogs are bred the resultant dog has a genetic mutation from that of its parents. This is usually not detrimental to the new kind of dog. This is an example where evolution is controlled by humans to enforce traits that humans want. In a state of nature, the environment kills off all species with traits that are not apt for survival, culling the favorable ones into prominence. Humans can breed dogs over the course of a few generations, but nature must breed species over the course of millions of years because nothing was planned.
It is also hard to ignore the similarities between wolves, dogs and foxes as they all share almost precisely similar genetics. No human breeding was done to create these genetic similarities, and yet they exist.
You will have to definitively challenge all points if you want the evidence to become "evidence."
C
Carbon-14 dating? - a joke really, hardly deserves a response, most intelligent scientists these days know that there is no way of accurately dating with carbon release rates in once live creatures past 2000-3000 years.
humans sharing genetics with chimpz, nothing suprising there, our flesh bodies are are made of the same basic elements as clay, does that mean we are related to clay?
humans sharing genetics with chimpz, nothing suprising there, our flesh bodies are are made of the same basic elements as clay, does that mean we are related to clay?
L
Okay to the people who are posting on this thread and claim to be Christian yet are supporting evolution, please refrain from posting any more unbiblical teachings on this thread.
Thanks,
Ira
Thanks,
Ira
"In fact, evolution can be precisely defined as any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next." <- that does not contradict the Bible at all. It is purely scientific and one can agree with that definition even if one is a YEC.
I
No, it seems my post has been taken out of context, and admittedly I wasn't all that clear.
I was simply asking those who wish the defend the notion that the world was created by a big bang (evolution) rather than created by God, to consider what they post. We don't allow unbiblical teaching on this site.
That was what I meant. Sorry if it was not very clear.
I was simply asking those who wish the defend the notion that the world was created by a big bang (evolution) rather than created by God, to consider what they post. We don't allow unbiblical teaching on this site.
That was what I meant. Sorry if it was not very clear.
W
To me macro evolution is one of the most unsound theories out there. Where are the missing links? There isn't even one sound example.
Whats happened is that a theory came along that the world loved. Accepting evolution gives you the power to deny that there is any God. Without a God you can do whatever you want without any eternal repercussions.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 (New International Version)
3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
Whats happened is that a theory came along that the world loved. Accepting evolution gives you the power to deny that there is any God. Without a God you can do whatever you want without any eternal repercussions.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 (New International Version)
3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
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