A question...

[Bowhunter2394]

A question for you 'Biblical Scholars',

is Morality, which by some is defined as the principles of discerning what is right or wrong, based on those who 'do good ' (good people) these being Moral people, and those who live in Immorality, doing that which is immoral as defined by those who 'boast in Morality'...

is Morality -------> a benchmark for being a christian? and is being Moral , good enough to Merit the Kingdm of Heaven?

-------------------------------

I look forward to the answers and dialogue! have a great Monday!

 

[oldhermit]

Probably one of the greatest lessons we learn from the garden scenario in gen 3 is the fact that the determination of what is right and wrong belong not to man but to God alone.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Probably one of the greatest lessons we learn from the garden scenario in gen 3 is the fact that the determination of what is right and wrong belong not to man but to God alone.

a Wise Disciple of Christ! indeed!

 

[crossnote]

A question for you 'Biblical Scholars',

is Morality, which by some is defined as the principles of discerning what is right or wrong, based on those who 'do good ' (good people) these being Moral people, and those who live in Immorality, doing that which is immoral as defined by those who 'boast in Morality'...

is Morality -------> a benchmark for being a christian? and is being Moral , good enough to Merit the Kingdm of Heaven?

-------------------------------

I look forward to the answers and dialogue! have a great Monday!

I have a headache.

 

[FridaysChild]

No one can be good enough to merit the Kingdom of Heaven.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
Romans 3:23

Morality, or goodness, is a fruit of the spirit for saved individuals who are abiding in Christ.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

 

[royalscot]

Probably one of the greatest lessons we learn from the garden scenario in gen 3 is the fact that the determination of what is right and wrong belong not to man but to God alone.

if that was the case, why did god say to cain , you must master it.

6 The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen?7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."Genesis 4


would anger be a emotion , would a soul be inside a person. how long did it take man kind to understand the difference,

 

[oldhermit]

if that was the case, why did god say to cain , you must master it.

6 The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen?7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."Genesis 4


would anger be a emotion , would a soul be inside a person. how long did it take man kind to understand the difference,

All he was called upon to master was sin's hold on him. The standard of morality was already established through the revealed ethic. If this was not already so then how was Cain to know that it was sin?

 

[Bowhunter2394]

No one can be good enough to merit the Kingdom of Heaven.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
Romans 3:23

Morality, or goodness, is a fruit of the spirit for saved individuals who are abiding in Christ.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

I agree, no one is Righteous, none... and the Fruits of the Spirit are manifested in in those who are led of the Spirit, Paul talks of those In Galatians, now as a Christian, led of the Spirit, do we go back or fall back on 'our' morality or goodness as a benchmark for Righteousness? mmm Paul taught, and his desire was to be so very very close to God, God had placed that desire in him, as His Elect, what Paul teaches is that the CLOSER he got and drew near to God, 'knowing Him, the Power of His Resurrection, being made conformable unto his death, the more those were applied to his life as the Spirit Led, the more the Realization of how far short he fell on a daily basis, Paul discussing in Romans about the Battle between the flesh/bone and Spirit, 'oh WRETCHED man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of this death?'... Somebody who draws very near to God, in drawing Nigh to God, the Revelation of your unworthiness is Exposed and the REALITY that you Truly are In Him thru His Grace and Mercy, and Living in in Him daily thru the Power of the Spirit. and the Beauty of God is Revealed to you as the Righteousness of God is IMPUTED unto your life....BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE IN HIM AND TRUST HIM... not in your works . Christ God manifest in the flesh, died for the most vilest of sinners, and He also died for the good man, the moral man, Paul taught Peradventure would anyone even DARE TO DIE for a good man, but Christ did! Perfection on the Tree, the Gift of Righteousness. dying for the most vial sinner and the 'good man'... Indeed!

 

[valiant]

A question for you 'Biblical Scholars',

is Morality, which by some is defined as the principles of discerning what is right or wrong, based on those who 'do good ' (good people) these being Moral people, and those who live in Immorality, doing that which is immoral as defined by those who 'boast in Morality'...

it is based on what God has revealed supplemented by the conscience He gave us. But the conscience is a weak tool unless it is fortified by the word of God.

is Morality -------> a benchmark for being a christian?

No, for a man can be very moral and not a Christian. The benchmark of being a true Christian is saving faith in Jesus Christ. But a man who has that saving faith will as a consequence seek to be moral.

and is being Moral , good enough to Merit the Kingdm of Heaven?

-------------------------------

Absolutely not. Hell is full of 'moral' people. They turned out to be as sinful as the rest but in a different way. See Romans 1-3. One thing is necessary to be sure of a place in the Kingdom of Heaven, and that is saving, life-changing, faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

I agree, no one is Righteous, none... and the Fruits of the Spirit are manifested in in those who are led of the Spirit, Paul talks of those In Galatians, now as a Christian, led of the Spirit, do we go back or fall back on 'our' morality or goodness as a benchmark for Righteousness? mmm Paul taught, and his desire was to be so very very close to God, God had placed that desire in him, as His Elect, what Paul teaches is that the CLOSER he got and drew near to God, 'knowing Him, the Power of His Resurrection, being made conformable unto his death, the more those were applied to his life as the Spirit Led, the more the Realization of how far short he fell on a daily basis, Paul discussing in Romans about the Battle between the flesh/bone and Spirit, 'oh WRETCHED man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of this death?'... Somebody who draws very near to God, in drawing Nigh to God, the Revelation of your unworthiness is Exposed and the REALITY that you Truly are In Him thru His Grace and Mercy, and Living in in Him daily thru the Power of the Spirit. and the Beauty of God is Revealed to you as the Righteousness of God is IMPUTED unto your life....BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE IN HIM AND TRUST HIM... not in your works . Christ God manifest in the flesh, died for the most vilest of sinners, and He also died for the good man, the moral man, Paul taught Peradventure would anyone even DARE TO DIE for a good man, but Christ did! Perfection on the Tree, the Gift of Righteousness. dying for the most vial sinner and the 'good man'... Indeed!

the Revelation of your 'unworthiness'.. that revelation is EXPOSED UPON standing before the tRee, where they murdered Him, thats why its Christ Crucified, the Message of Salvation, Paul understood that MYSTERY, even as a chosen elect Vessel of Jesus the Christ!... I've known Him since 1994, and daily, I marvel at His Grace, and Why He chose me, and I die daily... and realize, any kind of 'goodness' that may FLOW from these hands of mine, was Authorized and the Power do those Good things, are grounded in Him, you want to call those 'moral' thats fine, but I'll give Him the Credit, for He taught His own

For without Me ye can do NOTHING! THE Gospel of John,

Purdy strong STatment as to the Power Source of your Walk with Him and In Him....

 

[royalscot]

All he was called upon to master was sin's hold on him. The standard of morality was already established through the revealed ethic. If this was not already so then how was Cain to know that it was sin?

the difference between the emotions and right and wrong, are two different things.

i feel sick , i feel hungry, is not a sin. i feel angry is not a sin, letting or growing in anger to the point of killing.

without emotion or soul, how can you know if your hungry or ill, or sad or happy. these thing were built in.

speculation of the standard of morality, why did god take or pull him up on this point, if he already knew as you claim.

 

[oldhermit]

the difference between the emotions and right and wrong, are two different things.

i feel sick , i feel hungry, is not a sin. i feel angry is not a sin, letting or growing in anger to the point of killing.

without emotion or soul, how can you know if your hungry or ill, or sad or happy. these thing were built in.

speculation of the standard of morality, why did god take or pull him up on this point, if he already knew as you claim.

We are not talking about emotion here. Emotion has nothing to do with determining either morality or ethics. God has already establish the ethical standard with the consideration of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

[atwhatcost]

Don't mind me. I'm no biblical scholar. I'm merely checking out who thinks they are.

(I answer only without the assumption I'm a scholar.)

 

[royalscot]

We are not talking about emotion here. Emotion has nothing to do with determining either morality or ethics. God has already establish the ethical standard with the consideration of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

when did he tell adam and eve about your determining either morality or ethics.
yes you are, how can you determine an action. if he was not angry would he have killed his brother.

 

[MarcR]

For us, who believe in salvation by God's grace alone, morality is something that others, who call themselves believers, unsuccessfully try to legislate: thereby undermining the Church's credibility.

 

[oldhermit]

when did he tell adam and eve about you determining either morality or ethics.
yes you are, how can you determine an action. if he was not angry would he have killed his brother.

This is not my thread. Are you sure you want me to get into this because this is not going to be just a brief response. You are going to have to do some reading and it will take me a while to make this presentation with the permission of the thread host.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

it is based on what God has revealed supplemented by the conscience He gave us. But the conscience is a weak tool unless it is fortified by the word of God.



No, for a man can be very moral and not a Christian. The benchmark of being a true Christian is saving faith in Jesus Christ. But a man who has that saving faith will as a consequence seek to be moral.


-------------------------------

Absolutely not. Hell is full of 'moral' people. They turned out to be as sinful as the rest but in a different way. See Romans 1-3. One thing is necessary to be sure of a place in the Kingdom of Heaven, and that is saving, life-changing, faith in Jesus Christ.

Can one be 'FORTIFIED' IN the Word of God and not be 'LED OF THE SPIRIT"? being fortified in the Word of God, is useless if one is NOT LED OF THE SPIRIT, Jesus dealt with those Daily as they questioned His Authority and His Teachings.. lolz... these FORTIFIED in the Word of God, yet blind and deaf to the Message of Salvation and the Person of Christ Himself, Saul of Tarsus was fortified in the Word of God, ZEAL beyond Zeal, lolz.. but it Took God intervening in his life, blinding him and then healing him to understand the RIGHT ZEAL for God... Christ, God manifest in the flesh..

 

[Bowhunter2394]

This is not my thread. Are you sure you want me to get into this because this is not going to be just a brief response. You are going to have to do some reading and it will take me a while to make this presentation with the permission of the thread host.

feel free to carry on.. not a problem on this end..

 

[Bowhunter2394]

For us, who believe in salvation by God's grace alone, morality is something that others, who call themselves believers, unsuccessfully try to legislate: thereby undermining the Church's credibility.

very well put! spot on!

 

[oldhermit]

feel free to carry on.. not a problem on this end..

Thank you. We will see if he is game.