A Question

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Seeker47

Seeker47

Well-known member
#1
Aug 7, 2018
1,129
963
113
#1
This is not a rhetorical question, but a question seeking information.

Can anyone direct me to a church, a minister, a denomination, a speaker, an author, or anyone else that preach salvation by works? I would like to know what they actually say so I may judge their positions based on their own words.

I will follow up on as many as I can.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#2
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
113
#2
Seeker47 said:
This is not a rhetorical question, but a question seeking information.

Can anyone direct me to a church, a minister, a denomination, a speaker, an author, or anyone else that preach salvation by works? I would like to know what they actually say so I may judge their positions based on their own words.

I will follow up on as many as I can.
Click to expand...
There's lots of them that teach salvation by works. For instance many of them teach you have to be water baptized to be saved. Church of Christ and the Catholic Church teach this. Most of the cults do as well like the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and others like the Oneness Pentecostal Church. You can easily google which church's teach salvation by works.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#3
May 21, 2023
955
143
43
#3
bluto said:
There's lots of them that teach salvation by works. For instance many of them teach you have to be water baptized to be saved. Church of Christ and the Catholic Church teach this. Most of the cults do as well like the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and others like the Oneness Pentecostal Church. You can easily google which church's teach salvation by works.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Click to expand...
You made this whole statement up.

Give me the website of any of these examples of churches that teach "salvation by works". This should not be hard for you to do.

Your personal opinion of which acts constitute works of merit does not define "salvation by works".

They believe their acts of obedience are no more acts of merit anymore then you believe about your own acts of obedience.
 
T

Ted01

Well-known member
#4
May 14, 2022
1,055
448
83
#4
Seeker47 said:
This is not a rhetorical question, but a question seeking information.

Can anyone direct me to a church, a minister, a denomination, a speaker, an author, or anyone else that preach salvation by works? I would like to know what they actually say so I may judge their positions based on their own words.

I will follow up on as many as I can.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't want to point to others and say, "Listen to this guy for wrong teaching."

There's so many out there teaching works-based nonsense... but, the Jewish-roots movement and their churches has been growing large and fast.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#5
Jul 3, 2015
60,346
29,593
113
#5
Lamar said:
You made this whole statement up.

Give me the website of any of these examples of churches that teach "salvation by works". This should not be hard for you to do.

Your personal opinion of which acts constitute works of merit does not define "salvation by works".

They believe their acts of obedience are no more acts of merit anymore then you believe about your own acts of obedience.
Click to expand...
I think you must have misunderstood something... or else you really are saying something aside
from faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ will save you, such as being water baptized.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#6
May 21, 2023
955
143
43
#6
Seeker47 said:
This is not a rhetorical question, but a question seeking information.

Can anyone direct me to a church, a minister, a denomination, a speaker, an author, or anyone else that preach salvation by works? I would like to know what they actually say so I may judge their positions based on their own words.

I will follow up on as many as I can.
Click to expand...
I doubt you in find any church that will claim to teach "salvation by works".

Many here will label any acts of obedience as acts of merit except their own, of course.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#7
Jul 3, 2015
60,346
29,593
113
#7
Seeker47 said:
This is not a rhetorical question, but a question seeking information.

Can anyone direct me to a church, a minister, a denomination, a speaker, an author, or anyone else that preach salvation
by works? I would like to know what they actually say so I may judge their positions based on their own words.

I will follow up on as many as I can.
Click to expand...
Here is one (<= link .:)).
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#8
May 21, 2023
955
143
43
#8
Magenta said:
I think you must have misunderstood something... or else you really are saying something aside
from faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ will save you, such as being water baptized.
Click to expand...
I misunderstood nothing.
Bluto is clearly calling out these churches by labeling their acts of obedience as acts of merit, they believe no such thing.
If he can prove his accusation now is the time.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#9
Jul 3, 2015
60,346
29,593
113
#9
Lamar said:
I misunderstood nothing.
Bluto is clearly calling out these churches by labeling their acts of obedience as acts of merit, they believe no such thing.
If he can prove his accusation now is the time.
Click to expand...
Ah. There are plenty here who believe water baptism saves. Are you one of them?

My satement was an either/or which you did not address. You could clear that up now...
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#10
Jul 24, 2016
7,585
3,616
113
#10
What does the Catholic Catechism say about baptism?


"""Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."""

"""62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.""""

The catholic church clearly teaches that one must be baptized in water to have ones sins forgiven and to be reborn as sons of God... One cannot be saved unless one is freed from the debt of sins and become adopted Children of God.. So yes indeed the catholic church teaches that the works act of physical water baptism is essential to one being saved..
 
K

Karlon

Well-known member
#11
Mar 8, 2023
2,619
1,181
113
#11
any catholic church. & when you confront them have your arsenal ready: Ephesians 2:8,9,10
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#12
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
113
#12
Lamar said:
You made this whole statement up.

Give me the website of any of these examples of churches that teach "salvation by works". This should not be hard for you to do.

Your personal opinion of which acts constitute works of merit does not define "salvation by works".

They believe their acts of obedience are no more acts of merit anymore then you believe about your own acts of obedience.
Click to expand...
I didn't make anything up buster. Ephesians 2:8-9 states, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, vs9, NOT as a result of , that no one should boast." So, did you notice we are saved by grace through faith and not of works. Water baptism is considered a work so let's test you to see if you know what your talking about.

In the book of James he says at James 2:26, "For just as the body, without the spirit is dead, SO ALSO FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD." Can you reconcile this apparent contradiction? I also suggest you read the following site. https://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-by-works.html It explains why the majority view of Christianity believe in a works based salvation.

Here is what the Mormons believe regarding water baptism. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/baptism?lang=eng Here's another group (The Oneness Pentecostals) that regard water baptism as necessary for salvation and in speaking in tongues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onene...ches, while exhibiting variations,; Acts 19:6). Btw seeker47, do you know why they are called "Oneness Pentecostals?) It's time for you to do your own homework and I don't appreciate being called a liar. I've been a Christian for 61 years now and I think I know a little bit about what I'm talking about.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#14
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#14
Seeker47 said:
Can anyone direct me to a church, a minister, a denomination, a speaker, an author, or anyone else that preach salvation by works?
Click to expand...
One could call water baptism a work, and according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, baptismal regeneration is what saves a person.

Article 1
THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM
1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5
 
resto

resto

Active member
#15
Feb 25, 2019
169
76
28
#15
bluto said:
There's lots of them that teach salvation by works. For instance many of them teach you have to be water baptized to be saved. Church of Christ and the Catholic Church teach this. Most of the cults do as well like the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and others like the Oneness Pentecostal Church. You can easily google which church's teach salvation by works.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Click to expand...
That just about covers it. Some Baptists say they dont, but sin once in front of them and its over. They will say you were never saved.
 
R

RaceRunner

Well-known member
#16
Oct 13, 2022
1,576
289
83
#16
Magenta said:
I think you must have misunderstood something... or else you really are saying something aside
from faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ will save you, such as being water baptized.
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ did not shed his blood for heresy.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#18
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
6,696
113
#18
Nehemiah6 said:
One could call water baptism a work, and according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, baptismal regeneration is what saves a person.

Article 1
THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM
1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5
Click to expand...
there are 2 Biblical things i will not debate on- Baptism or not, or Rapture or no.

i see the points and positions that those pro and con claim can be found in Scripture...
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#19
Mar 1, 2022
19,335
6,649
113
62
#19
gb9 said:
there are 2 Biblical things i will not debate on- Baptism or not, or Rapture or no.

i see the points and positions that those pro and con claim can be found in Scripture...
Click to expand...
Sure. But both can't be right.
 
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