Abomination of Desolation

[louis]

Hi Louis,

Yes, I am very aware that our bodies are the temple of God. However, you need to be able to discern the difference between the temple of the body vs. the literal temple in Jerusalem, which is what you are not doing. You just continue to ignore the scriptures which I am providing for you which demonstrate that the literal temple is in view.

What you are doing is simply misapplying the meaning of the temple here. Consider the following:

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak."

So, according to the scripture above, the setting up of the abomination will be a sign for those in Judea to flee into the mountains. How could they see the abomination set up in the holy place if it was referring to the temple of their body. This is just ridiculous! Obviously Jesus gave this warning to those of Israel who would be on the earth during that last seven years, where in the middle that abomination will be set up. The "holy place" that Jesus is referring to, is the room just outside of the holy holies.

What you are also not understanding is that, a decree went out to Israel and Jerusalem of seventy seven year periods. Sixty-nine of those seventy sevens were fulfilled when the Messiah was cut off/crucified. From that time on the Lord began to build His church and which is also still in the process of being built. Once the Lord appears and gathers the church, then God will pick up right where He left off in fulfillment of that last seven years with Israel sacrificing and making offerings in her new future temple. According to Dan.9:27, in the middle of that seven years the antichrist will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the literal temple in the holy place. Seeing this abomination standing in the holy place within the temple is what will cause Israel to flee out into the wilderness.

So, while each individual of the church is the indwelt by the Holy Spirit, the holy place spoken of in the scripture is referring to Israel and her future temple (an actual building) where they will once again begin to perform their temple worship.

Nothing in Daniel 9:27, 12:11 or Matt.24:15, would support the holy place as referring to the body of the believer.

Stop arguing about it and use some simple scriptural logic!

Ahwatukee, Do you not see how your proposing a physical building that will be supposedly built by the faithless in Israel representing a holy structure of God, denies what the New Testament says represents God's true holy structure in us?
The Lord provides us with many scriptures in order to discern what the truth is. Instead of holding on to old dogmatic perspectives that you may have been taught years ago, you should instead recognize the scriptures that contradict false illumination in order to progress in the Word.
So far no one has been able to provide me an answer as to what the lie is that people will choose over the truth so that they may continue to take pleasure in unfaithfulness. This is part of the puzzle of who the Antichrist is and what he represents, and yet no one has asked any questions. I wonder why, is it pride? Do you know where pride comes from?

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Ahwatukee, Do you not see how your proposing a physical building that will be supposedly built by the faithless in Israel representing a holy structure of God, denies what the New Testament says represents God's true holy structure in us?

What you are forgetting is that unbelieving Jews are not looking to the New Testament. They are still waiting for their *true* Messiah. And the third temple and Messiah coming to Israel are tied together. Except that it will be Anti-Messiah who hijacks the temple for his own nefarious purposes.

Why do Christians assume that unbelieving Jews are believers in Christ? And why does anyone think that Bible prophecies will not be fulfilled simply because they have not been taught the truth?

 

[KJV1611]

What you are forgetting is that unbelieving Jews are not looking to the New Testament. They are still waiting for their *true* Messiah. And the third temple and Messiah coming to Israel are tied together. Except that it will be Anti-Messiah who hijacks the temple for his own nefarious purposes.

Why do Christians assume that unbelieving Jews are believers in Christ? And why does anyone think that Bible prophecies will not be fulfilled simply because they have not been taught the truth?

So if the unbelieving antichrist Jews that reject Christ as their savior build a temple then God will consider that to be a holy place?

 

[Nehemiah6]

So far no one has been able to provide me an answer as to what the lie is that people will choose over the truth so that they may continue to take pleasure in unfaithfulness.

The lie mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2 is the assertion by the Antichrist that he is the *true* Christ. And because he will be a miracle-worker just like Jesus of Nazareth, and will be empowered by Satan to deceive the whole world, his lie will be successful. See Revelation 13.

People who reject God's truth set themselves up to believe the lies of Satan. We are seeing this right now within Christendom, where all kinds of false doctrines and practices are being accepted as true. Imagine when all genuine believers and the Holy Spirit are absent from this world, and God literally hands over the unbelieving and ungodly inhabitants of the world to Satan and the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years.

A future temple in Jerusalem is a necessity in order for the Antichrist )a) to set up the Abomination of Desolation in the Holy Place and (b) to sit in *the temple of God* claiming that he is God. *The temple of God* is what unbelieving Jews will believe about their third temple, not Christians.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So if the unbelieving antichrist Jews that reject Christ as their savior build a temple then God will consider that to be a holy place?

No, God will consider it an unholy place with a detestable thing sitting in it. It will *stink* in the nostrils of God (metaphorically).

But unbelieving Jews will be blind to that fact, and believe that the pretender sitting in that temple is God and Christ, and God has authorized the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation. That is because the true God Himself will send *strong delusion* upon the unbelieving world, as stated in 2 Thess 2, so that they believe the lie.

 

[louis]

What you are forgetting is that unbelieving Jews are not looking to the New Testament. They are still waiting for their *true* Messiah. And the third temple and Messiah coming to Israel are tied together. Except that it will be Anti-Messiah who hijacks the temple for his own nefarious purposes.

Why do Christians assume that unbelieving Jews are believers in Christ? And why does anyone think that Bible prophecies will not be fulfilled simply because they have not been taught the truth?

The truth in 2 Thessalonians 2: 10-12 that the world will refuse to accept so that they may continue to take pleasure in unbelieving is not the Jews continuing to reject Jesus as their Messiah.
Context is everything. The little horn, a.k.a. the Antichrist, also referred to as the beasts mouth, who speaks great things, and represents the man of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, is in cahoots with the ten horned beast, and as such it is the Antichrist's actions in cahoots with the ten horned beast (who devours/consumes the whole world-Daniel 7:23), which is in regards to the truth the whole world will reject in favor of a lie (a delusion) so that they may continue to take pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. .

 

[louis]

The lie mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2 is the assertion by the Antichrist that he is the *true* Christ. And because he will be a miracle-worker just like Jesus of Nazareth, and will be empowered by Satan to deceive the whole world, his lie will be successful. See Revelation 13.

The Antichrist shews himself that he is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4). This means that as God is love, the antichrist who will be adored by the whole faithless world (Revelation 13:8), and who will even sit in the hearts of the faithful (2 Thessalonians 2:4), where he ought not; --will see himself as the people's love---their god. Context is everything.

I have to leave now due to prior engagement, and hope to be back this evening to respond to any additional inquiries.

 

[KJV1611]

No, God will consider it an unholy place with a detestable thing sitting in it. It will *stink* in the nostrils of God (metaphorically).

But unbelieving Jews will be blind to that fact, and believe that the pretender sitting in that temple is God and Christ, and God has authorized the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation. That is because the true God Himself will send *strong delusion* upon the unbelieving world, as stated in 2 Thess 2, so that they believe the lie.

God specifically says that the abomination that made them desolate was STANDING in the Holy Place.

Mat 24:15 (KJV) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

You know Christ, the abomination that made Jerusalem desolate STOOD on the cross and shed his HOLY BLOOD on the cross.

 

[PlainWord]

War of the Jews 6-6-1 (Josephus):

"AND now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator with the greatest acclamations of joy."

The most prominent of the Roman ensigns which they carried into battle was the Aquila which was an eagle/vulture, thus a scavenger bird which feeds on dead bodies. Oh, and there were a lot of dead bodies inside Jerusalem then.

IMPERATOR = An absolute or supreme leader, like a god.

I'd say we found our Abomination which caused desolation (of Jerusalem) in 70 AD. END OF STORY.

 

[PlainWord]

Luke 21: 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her..."

Mat 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Thus Armies which had surrounded Jerusalem caused it's desolation.

Matthew invokes Daniel 9: And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary...And till the end of the war desolations are determined...

This prince was Titus. It was the next time Jerusalem was laid desolate from when Daniel and Jesus gave the prediction.

And it was total desolation as recorded by Josephus (War 7-1-1):

"Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison, as were the towers also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall, it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited.

NOTHING LEFT = DESOLATION

 

[bibleprophecy]

What is the abomination of Desolation? I would truly like to hear from you.

Ezekiel sees the greatest abomination
Ezekiel 8:15 And he further said to me: “Do you see this, O son of man? You will see detestable things that are even more terrible than these.” 16 So he brought me to the inner courtyard of the house of Yehovah. There at the entrance of the temple of Yehovah, between the porch and the altar, were about 25 men with their backs to the temple of Yehovah and their faces to the east; they were bowing down to the sun in the east.

Sun Worship

 

[KJV1611]

Ezekiel sees the greatest abomination
Ezekiel 8:15 And he further said to me: “Do you see this, O son of man? You will see detestable things that are even more terrible than these.” 16 So he brought me to the inner courtyard of the house of Yehovah. There at the entrance of the temple of Yehovah, between the porch and the altar, were about 25 men with their backs to the temple of Yehovah and their faces to the east; they were bowing down to the sun in the east.

Sun Worship

Yeah that's a pretty bad abomination, but is it worse than killing the son of God, their Messiah?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are the temple of God. We therefore are the holy place in which the abomination of desolation will be set up, standing where it ought not.

Cant be, because it has to be a physical holy place for people,to,see it standing there

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am having a thinking outside of the box day. Lol

I do think it refers to the Romans in regards to Daniels

Just throwing a few ideas out there in regards to Revelations. I haven’t thought this through very well it was just an idea to put out there.

If we are now the temple of the Holy Spirit following the work of Jesus. Maybe it relates to human beings becoming corrupt somehow. A time when it becomes so hard for the gospel to be spread and heard, that Jesus has to come back again.

Could it be something to do with messing with DNA, people choosing their own gender or having no gender for example.

We are created and loved by God, the temple for His Holy Spirit. I cannot think of any worse abomination or destruction that could happen, other than God’s created people becoming an abomination.

But it is prophesy,

It is a warning for future people, when you see this, do that

The prophesy is useless if it is a spiritual fulfillment no one could know, it would all be guesses, and no one could prove who is right or wrong

I have a problem with this, i hope we all do

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So if the unbelieving antichrist Jews that reject Christ as their savior build a temple then God will consider that to be a holy place?

And?

Their renewal is not prophesied until AFTER these events, these are events which lead them to repentance

We should rejoice that people will get saved, not mock because we hate the idea of these people being saved,

 

[bibleprophecy]

Yeah that's a pretty bad abomination, but is it worse than killing the son of God, their Messiah?

What do you mean by that?

 

[louis]

Cant be, because it has to be a physical holy place for people,to,see it standing there

If you have ever seen some old footage of Hitler's rallies, you will see the people in the crowds displaying great exuberance. In effect Hitler was in the hearts and minds of the German people. He was their love, which is to say, he was their god.

Hypothetically now, if you were to place yourself in 1930's Germany in which you had a large family who you saw were all gaga over Adolf; would you then not recognize this false Messiah standing where it ought not, in the hearts and minds of your brothers and sisters?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you have ever seen some old footage of Hitler's rallies, you will see the people in the crowds displaying great exuberance. In effect Hitler was in the hearts and minds of the German people. He was their love, which is to say, he was their god.

Hypothetically now, if you were to place yourself in 1930's Germany in which you had a large family who you saw were all gaga over Adolf; would you then not recognize this false Messiah standing where it ought not, in the hearts and minds of your brothers and sisters?

Nope

Because hitler never stood in a holy place


We have to read it as the people of daniel would have read it, and they would never see it that way

Thats why the “term” was used, it meant something to Daniel as his people

 

[louis]

Nope

Because hitler never stood in a holy place


We have to read it as the people of daniel would have read it, and they would never see it that way

Thats why the “term” was used, it meant something to Daniel as his people

If we are the temple of God and thereby holy as the scriptures indicate; then anyone standing in our hearts other then the Lord, should not be there.

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If we are the temple of God and thereby holy as the scriptures indicate; then anyone standing in our hearts other then the Lord, should not be there.

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

God was not talking about a spiritual temple in dan 9 or in matt 24.

Spiritual temple is out new life, it relates to us, not the whole world