Adam and Eve could have had children before the fall
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Actually, there were married before the fall, two became one flesh. Biblical marriage is not a ceremony, but the physical act.
Sex and child-bearing are not necessarily synonymous. In other words, every sexual act does not result in pregnancy and child-bearing.
Also, you speak in way too broad terms. "Our ideas?" Perhaps your ideas, but you are not the spokesperson for everyone here.
As far as sex is concerned, this is how we should view it:
Hebrews 13:4
"Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."
I agree with that. Something was different before the fall. It appears there is no becoming one, after the fall, as GOD intended.
Not even close.
Before the fall, there were only two people upon the face of this earth, and they were a husband and wife couple. Sexual relations between them as a husband and wife were honorable.
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FollowingtheWay
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Something beautiful was happening before the fall between the man and woman.
“The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.” That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh. Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.”
Genesis 2:18, 23-25 NIV
Adam was so in love with this woman he was making her poetry. Romance was in the air.
The Lord told them in a pre- fall state their glorious work.
“So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.””
Genesis 1:27-28 NIV
But what happened to the man and woman relationship in the fall?
“To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.””
Genesis 3:16-19 NIV
There was a rift created between husband and wife at the fall. The wife will want to control the husband to try to be his covering . because of her fallen nature she will want to usurp His authority as head and covering . And the Husband will be tempted to abdicate his God given role and surrender his authority to the wife where Adam will live in passivity, then get frustrated and try to wrestle the authority back in an ungodly way through anger, vengeance, etc And from there it spirals out into all kinds of perverse diversions from the original design which we see play out in our modern lives every day in the current fallen world. As Christians we can begin to live back into what the true design was. But we have to actively fight our old sin and fallen nature every day to stay there. For modern women it will be a daily battle to respect the authority given to their husbands,allow their husband to lead the marriage and family to let them be the covering . For a modern husband it will be a daily battle to surrender to the will of God, love his wife and lead his family in a God honoring way, rejecting passivity and moving in the authority God has given him as head and the covering for his family.
“The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.” That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh. Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.”
Genesis 2:18, 23-25 NIV
Adam was so in love with this woman he was making her poetry. Romance was in the air.
The Lord told them in a pre- fall state their glorious work.
“So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.””
Genesis 1:27-28 NIV
But what happened to the man and woman relationship in the fall?
“To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.””
Genesis 3:16-19 NIV
There was a rift created between husband and wife at the fall. The wife will want to control the husband to try to be his covering . because of her fallen nature she will want to usurp His authority as head and covering . And the Husband will be tempted to abdicate his God given role and surrender his authority to the wife where Adam will live in passivity, then get frustrated and try to wrestle the authority back in an ungodly way through anger, vengeance, etc And from there it spirals out into all kinds of perverse diversions from the original design which we see play out in our modern lives every day in the current fallen world. As Christians we can begin to live back into what the true design was. But we have to actively fight our old sin and fallen nature every day to stay there. For modern women it will be a daily battle to respect the authority given to their husbands,allow their husband to lead the marriage and family to let them be the covering . For a modern husband it will be a daily battle to surrender to the will of God, love his wife and lead his family in a God honoring way, rejecting passivity and moving in the authority God has given him as head and the covering for his family.
It is not certain whether Adam and Eve were married in the Garden. Genesis is written in both past and present tenses. Moses would refer to them as husband and wife (and same with "two became one" references) since he is a descendant and knew they did get married/consummate at some point.
this dude, gets an idea, it's normally as wrong from right as east is from west, and then spends days trying to brow beat people into submitting to his viewpoint.
that's basically the similar definition to what narcissism is.
no wonder the dude is alone and can't find love.
he is looking for enablers to abuse and no one wants to be abused any more.
and he doesn't see he's the "common denominator" causing the problem.
must be nice to live where the Right Side of the Brain provides these fantasies and misinterpretations he arrives at + the moral Left Side of the Brain that speaks to the Right Side and defuses this situation is disconnected.
so, his moral compass, is his own selfish desires.
as long as he's allowed to create threads, they will all be the same, he's not wrong, the bible is or preachers for how they teach are.
ain't nothing but pure lucid insanity...
that's basically the similar definition to what narcissism is.
no wonder the dude is alone and can't find love.
he is looking for enablers to abuse and no one wants to be abused any more.
and he doesn't see he's the "common denominator" causing the problem.
must be nice to live where the Right Side of the Brain provides these fantasies and misinterpretations he arrives at + the moral Left Side of the Brain that speaks to the Right Side and defuses this situation is disconnected.
so, his moral compass, is his own selfish desires.
as long as he's allowed to create threads, they will all be the same, he's not wrong, the bible is or preachers for how they teach are.
ain't nothing but pure lucid insanity...
Why not? The entire context shows that it was in the Garden of Eden. (And once again JohnB is obsessing about sex and marriage, which is totally unhealthy).
There were no children born before the fall, since the period of sinlessness must have been quite short. Not that sex within marriage is sinful, but had there been children earlier, it would have been part of the narrative.
I believe much different than most concerning Genesis…. But it would seem if Adam had children before the fall, they should have been listed in his genealogy.
In the original language of Genesis, there are two words for man, 'adam' and 'ish' where the latter has a connotation of 'husband,' Adam was not called "ish' until God created "isha." Eve was created as 'isha,' or woman that has a connotation of 'wife', as opposed to being created as a 'maiden.'
Genesis is crazy…
Why only 2 words for man?
There are four principal Hebrew words rendered "man", and these must be carefully discriminated. Every occurrence is noted in the margin of The Companion Bible. They represent him from four different points of view :--
- 'Adam, denotes his origin, as being made from the "dust of the Adamah" ground (Lat. homo).
- 'Ish, has regard to sex, a male (Lat. vir).
- 'Enosh, has regard to his infirmities, as physically mortal, and as to character, incurable.
- 'Geber, has respect to his strength, a mighty man.
- 'Adam, without the article, denotes man or mankind in general (Gen. 1:26; 2:5; 5:1, followed by plural pronoun). With the article, it denotes the man, Adam, though rendered "man" in Gen. 1:27; 2:7 (twice), 8, 15, 16, 19 (marg.), 22 (twice); 3:12, 22, 24; 5:1; 6:1 (rendered "men"), 2, 3, 4. After this, the Hebrew 'Adam = man or men, is used of the descendants of Adam. Hence, Christ is called "the son of Adam", not a son of Enosh.
With the particle ha ('eth) in addition to the article it is very emphatic, and means self, very, this same, this very. See Gen. 2:7 (first occurrence), 8, 15.
Rendered in the Septuagint (anthropos) 411 times; (aner) eighteen times (fifteen times in Proverbs); (brotos), mortal (all in Job); once (gegenes), earth-born, Jer. 32:20.
- 'Ish. First occurrence in feminine, Gen. 2:23, 'ishah = woman. Therefore, 'ish = male, or husband; a man, in contrast with a woman. A great man in contrast with ordinary men (Ps. 49:2, where "low" are called the children of Adam, and the "high" = children of 'ish. So Ps. 62:9 and Isa. 2:9; 5:15; 31:8). When God is spoken of as man, it is 'ish (Ex. 15:3. So Josh. 5:13. Dan. 9:21; 10:5; 12:6, 7. Zech. 1:8, &c.). Also, in such expressions as "man of God", "man of understanding", &c. In the early chapters of Genesis we have it in chapters 3:33, 34 and 4:1.
Translated in Septuagint 1,083 times by (aner), Latin vir, and only 450 by (anthropos), Latin homo.
It is rendered "husband" sixty-nine times, "person" twelve times, and once or twice each in thirty-nine different ways.
- 'Enosh. First occurrence Gen. 6:4, men of name. Always in a bad sense (Isa. 5:22; 45:14. Judg. 18:25). Morally = depraved, and physically = frail, weak. It is from 'anash, to be sick, wretched, weak, and denotes inability, for strength, physically; and for good, morally (cp. 2Sam. 12:15. Job 34:6. Jer. 15:18; 17:9; 30:12, 15. Mic. 1:9). Note the contrasts, Isa. 2:11 and 17, "The lofty looks of man ('Adam) shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men ('Enosh) shall be bowed down" (Cp. Isa. 13:12. Job 25:6. Ps. 8:4; 90:3; 144:3. Job 4:17; 10:5; 7:17. Dan. 4:16). Other instructive passages are Isa. 8:1; 66:24. Ezek. 24:17 (afflicted, or mourners. Cp. Jer. 17:16, "day of man"). In 1Sam. 4:9 it is probably plural of'Ish (so probably Gen. 18 and 19, where the indefinite plural must be interpreted by the context, because 'Adam would have denotedhuman, and 'Ish, males).
It is rendered "man" 518 times, "certain" eleven times, and once or twice each in twenty-four other and different ways.
- Geber. First occurrence in Gen. 6:4 (*1), mighty men, and denotes man in respect of his physical strength, as 'Enosh does in respect of the depravity of his nature. It is rendered "man" sixty-seven times, "mighty" twice, "man-child" once, "every one" once. In the Septuagint rendered fourteen times (anthropos) and the rest by (aner).
For illustrative passages see Ex. 10:11; 12:37. 1Sam. 16:18. 2Sam. 23:1. Num. 24:3, 15. 1Chron. 26:12; 28:1. 2Chron. 13:3. Ezra 4:21; 5:4, 10; 6:8.
- Methim (plural) = adults as distinguished from children, and males as distinguished from females. Occurs Gen. 34:30. Deut. 2:34; 3:6; 4:27; 26:5; 28:62; 33:6. 1Chron. 16:19. Job 11:3, 11; 19:19; 22:15; 24:12; 31:31. Ps. 17:14; 26:4; 105:12. Isa. 3:25; 5:13; 41:14. Jer. 44:28.
I spoke in reference to the context of creation. Adam referring to mankind and the further distinction between husband and wife,
Adam and Eve felt ashamed of their nudity after they ate the fruit. It seems through eating the fruit they realized their sexuality, were confused, and tried to cover themselves. "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. "
This leads me to suspect they were virgins. It is hard for us to see nudity and not think of sex in some way but I believe they did not due to their purity.
Or it may be possibe that there was sex in the Garden, but after eating the fruit they felt shamed of their sexuality because Satan perverted it by introducing lust in a way which controls and distracts man from God. Very likely they had impure thoughts, which raises the question of how can a married couple have impure thoughts of eachother and feel ashamed? Either way, sex in the Garden is different from sex in this world which has selfish undertones even in the best of cases.
more than 2 words brings confusion
like being able to count "all the way up" to 20 because of my fingers and toes
or when "momma" would write in big blue marker on the inside tongue of my shoes, [[TIF]] (toes in first)
or when yer wife blows you a kiss while preachin : [KISS] or better known as (keep it short STUPID)!
us men require things very simplistic
