7
ok
after reading the last # of responses from the op, I am left like
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The uber terrific post was meant to illicit that type of response, and to point out that it's the same response an unbeliever or someone unfamiliar with the jargon might have to the term 'personal savior.'
I like cheese on my burger. We don't need cheese on the gospel.
I am getting the idea that I like the personal Savior a lot more than I like the quasi gospel you seem intent on preaching.Something else to consider is that the early-20th-century American evangelicals (or late 19th) who added 'Personal Savior' to their presentations of the Gospel were probably doing this to address the issue of quasi-churched Americans who considered themselves Christians because they went to church or had gone to church.
Now, we live in a country where the number of people who identify themselves as shrinking. A message about how you, the individual, must respond to the Gospel, not just think Jesus is some kind of Savior of the world and that you are not required to repent personally probably doesn't resonate well with someone who does not go to church or identify himself as a Christian.
And of course it resonates a lot less well if you just throw out the term 'Personal Savior' without explanation, the remnant of a line of preaching that isn't preached so much anymore.
Are you implying that that preaching the Gospel without saying 'Personal Savior' (like the apostles and preachers until the 1900's) is a quasi-gospel?I am getting the idea that I like the personal Savior a lot more than I like the quasi gospel you seem intent on preaching.
Let God use His word to accomplish that which He pleases. Sin is personal and so is the gospel.
You tell me how you preach the gospel without making it personal. Do you advise people to repent of someone else's sin?Are you implying that that preaching the Gospel without saying 'Personal Savior' (like the apostles and preachers until the 1900's) is a quasi-gospel?
You tell me how you preach the gospel without making it personal. Do you advise people to repent of someone else's sin?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Well, if the Elect of God is what some Denominations claim it to mean, then the term for Jesus, as one who is that Elect, would indeed be, Personal Savior.The following is a quote from the late Keith Green which I got from the Lastdaysministries website.
I still hear 'personal Savior.' I think of it more as a '70's and '80's thing, but some churches and preaches still say it. If Keith Green said or wrote this today, he might write about 'It's not a religion; it's a personal relationship.' That's not what the apostles said when they tried to win a crowd of people to Christ. And 'personal Savior' does not show up in the Bible.
I have a pen. It is my personal property. If I don't want to let anyone else use it, I could refuse them access, because it is my personal property. I have no such rights when it comes to Christ. I heard preaching-- probably last in the 1980's, that actually explained a rationale behind the use of 'personal Savior'-- that the gospel and salvation affects you personally. It is not enough that you acknowledge Christ as the Savior of the world. You must repent and believe in Him 'personally.' I guess that makes sense, but it does not seem to justify the way 'personal Savior' was codified as a phrase used as a mark of orthodoxy. But 'personal Savior' is used without an explanation.
What are the fruits of evangelicals focusing so much on 'personal.' I wonder if all those unchurched people out there who, if you ask them about their relationship with God, will object that their religion is 'personal' and they do not want to talk about it got this idea from American evangelicals obsession with preaching on 'personal Savior' and 'personal relationship'? These are phrases and an an area of emphasis (personal) that I can't even find in the New Testament.
I wonder if this influences the growth of (often unspiritual) people identifying themselves as 'spiritual but not religious.'
As I have pointed out on another thread, there are churches where a pastor may or may not mention the cross, does not mention the resurrection at all, and does not explain who Jesus is, but then tells them that Christianity is not a religion but a relationship, and asks people to mention a prayer that mentions Jesus and declares them saved for doing so.
I was listening to Acts 2 this morning and noticing, again, that Peter doesn't even preach on the atonement. He puts the blame for Christ's crucifixion on the crowd, but spends much of his sermon persuading his audience that Jesus rose from the dead. Later, the Saducees were upset that he and John preached, through Jesus, the resurrection of the dead. Why does the 'personal' issue get so much focus when it isn't even in the Bible, but the resurrection is so often omitted?
No, I am saying that 'Personal Savior' does not communicate the message you are trying to send. If you are sharing the gospel with them and encouraging them to believe, that's already personal.You tell me how you preach the gospel without making it personal. Do you advise people to repent of someone else's sin?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I am getting the idea that I like the personal Savior a lot more than I like the quasi gospel you seem intent on preaching.
No, I am saying that 'Personal Savior' does not communicate the message you are trying to send. If you are sharing the gospel with them and encouraging them to believe, that's already personal.
IF you can't preach the gospel without making it personal, then you don't have to say 'personal Savior.'
I understood personal saviour to mean that God desires a relationship with us, and that prayer is that personal relationship: that we enter in the relationship of Jesus in constant fellowship with the Father. Language bariers remain until we are perfect in LoveThe following is a quote from the late Keith Green which I got from the Lastdaysministries website.
I still hear 'personal Savior.' I think of it more as a '70's and '80's thing, but some churches and preaches still say it. If Keith Green said or wrote this today, he might write about 'It's not a religion; it's a personal relationship.' That's not what the apostles said when they tried to win a crowd of people to Christ. And 'personal Savior' does not show up in the Bible.
I have a pen. It is my personal property. If I don't want to let anyone else use it, I could refuse them access, because it is my personal property. I have no such rights when it comes to Christ. I heard preaching-- probably last in the 1980's, that actually explained a rationale behind the use of 'personal Savior'-- that the gospel and salvation affects you personally. It is not enough that you acknowledge Christ as the Savior of the world. You must repent and believe in Him 'personally.' I guess that makes sense, but it does not seem to justify the way 'personal Savior' was codified as a phrase used as a mark of orthodoxy. But 'personal Savior' is used without an explanation.
What are the fruits of evangelicals focusing so much on 'personal.' I wonder if all those unchurched people out there who, if you ask them about their relationship with God, will object that their religion is 'personal' and they do not want to talk about it got this idea from American evangelicals obsession with preaching on 'personal Savior' and 'personal relationship'? These are phrases and an an area of emphasis (personal) that I can't even find in the New Testament.
I wonder if this influences the growth of (often unspiritual) people identifying themselves as 'spiritual but not religious.'
As I have pointed out on another thread, there are churches where a pastor may or may not mention the cross, does not mention the resurrection at all, and does not explain who Jesus is, but then tells them that Christianity is not a religion but a relationship, and asks people to mention a prayer that mentions Jesus and declares them saved for doing so.
I was listening to Acts 2 this morning and noticing, again, that Peter doesn't even preach on the atonement. He puts the blame for Christ's crucifixion on the crowd, but spends much of his sermon persuading his audience that Jesus rose from the dead. Later, the Saducees were upset that he and John preached, through Jesus, the resurrection of the dead. Why does the 'personal' issue get so much focus when it isn't even in the Bible, but the resurrection is so often omitted?
The thing is the word "personal" makes it explicit......sometimes people need that.
Having said that some people go on with the cliche "personal savior" and never really expound on what it means.
It is not the term that is the problem.