Adventists, Ellen G. White, failed prophecies and scripture

[WiselyWoven]

I am not SDA but I cannot find anywhere in the New Testament saying one cannot observe the Sabbat as a Follower of Yeshua. In fact, I see nowhere that you're not allowed to follow tenants of the Law and still be Christian.

Satan is the author of that confusion.

Even before Jesus came, there were those who "walked in all of the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless" (Luke 1:5-6). But this has nothing to do with the New Testament believer. For we are not under law but under grace (Rom. 6:14). "Where there is no law there is no transgression" (Rom. 4:15).

When we continue to define sin by the law, we show that we are believing in the wrong covenant, which is why John defines sin as unbelief, not behavior (1 John 3:6-9). He was teaching Israelites, who only understood sin as bad behavior, how to live in the New Testament by saying the man who is born of God does not commit sin for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So sin in the New Testament is not believing in and knowing Jesus, and has nothing to do with law keeping. This is why Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit comes, the only sin he will reprove the world of is the sin of "They believe not on me."

 

[WiselyWoven]

Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and for ever . Jesus called himself the Lord of the Sabbath.

and

I can’t afford like most people to practice the Sabbath every day .

You can't afford not to (because the "sabbath" rest is every day).

There will be no Sabbath in which the law still holds sway over Israel.

and

Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and for ever . Jesus called himself the Lord of the Sabbath.

Amen @the liberty that is Christ Jesus.

Dead legalism binds and blinds people to the truth. SDA completely reject the truth that God's law was for Israel and not for Gentiles.

 

[TruthDefender]

Imagine being embarassed over what you are wearing and not thinking about worshipping God while in Church.

Do you mean I can’t wear my camping/ hiking gear, or soccer jersey? (sorry, some people don’t get my sense of humor. Lol).

 

[TruthDefender]

Satan is the author of that confusion.

Even before Jesus came, there were those who "walked in all of the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless" (Luke 1:5-6). But this has nothing to do with the New Testament believer. For we are not under law but under grace (Rom. 6:14). "Where there is no law there is no transgression" (Rom. 4:15).

When we continue to define sin by the law, we show that we are believing in the wrong covenant, which is why John defines sin as unbelief, not behavior (1 John 3:6-9). He was teaching Israelites, who only understood sin as bad behavior, how to live in the New Testament by saying the man who is born of God does not commit sin for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So sin in the New Testament is not believing in and knowing Jesus, and has nothing to do with law keeping. This is why Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit comes, the only sin he will reprove the world of is the sin of "They believe not on me."

Could you please define your last paragraph using Scripture?

 

[WiselyWoven]

So sin in the New Testament is not believing in and knowing Jesus, and has nothing to do with law keeping. This is why Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit comes, the only sin he will reprove the world of is the sin of "They believe not on me."

Could you please define your last paragraph using Scripture?

John 16:
v. 1 - These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
v. 7 - Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
v. 8 - And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
v. 9 - Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Jesus was talking about the work of the Holy Spirit (Comforter). He identifies the core defining sin as a lack of faith (refusal to believe in Jesus) - not just wrong actions.

Faith, rather than behavior (e.g. "the law"), is central to Christianity.

 

[Rob7]

Can you explain the following feast shown below.

John 10:22
At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in
the temple in the portico of Solomon.

Do you understand why the Jews celebrated this feast?

No ! I could not "explain the following feast" OR competently explain "why the Jews celebrated this feast?"
I've heard a little about Hanukkah, but really have had no need, to understand it in depth... so here is AI explaining to you & I

The Feast of the Dedication, mentioned in John 10:22, is more commonly known as Hanukkah. According to the KJV and historical accounts, this feast was celebrated to commemorate the rededication of the Jerusalem Temple after it was defiled by Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 168 BC. The Jews, under the leadership of the Maccabees, had reclaimed the Temple and restored proper worship to God, cleansing and reestablishing the altar and sacred practices (John 10:22; see also 1 Maccabees 4).

From a biblical and Adventist perspective:

1. Biblical Context: John 10:22 places Jesus in the Temple during the Feast of Dedication, demonstrating that He observed Jewish holy times and taught in the Temple courts. The feast occurred in winter, which aligns with the historical timing of Hanukkah (John 10:22 KJV).
2. Historical Significance (Josephus): Flavius Josephus records that the Jews celebrated this feast to honor the miraculous preservation of the Temple and their religious freedom following the oppressive policies of the Seleucid king. The festival commemorated the lighting of the Temple lamps and the purification of the sanctuary after its desecration.
3. From SDA Writings: The Jewish festivals served to remind God’s people of His faithfulness and the need for holiness. Although Hanukkah originated in post-Biblical times, the principle behind it—dedicating oneself and the sanctuary to God—reflects the spiritual meaning of obedience, devotion, and restoration. This emphasizes that observances like these, when viewed in the light of Christ, point to the ultimate cleansing and rededication in the person and work of Jesus (see The Desire of Ages, pp. 552-553, on Jesus’ ministry in the Temple).
4. Spiritual Principle: The Feast of Dedication symbolizes God’s protection, the triumph of His truth, and the importance of maintaining holy worship. For the Jews, it was a celebration of deliverance and the recommitment of the Temple to God. Adventist thought sees this as a type pointing forward to Christ as the ultimate high priest and the true temple where God dwells among His people (John 2:19-21; 1 Corinthians 6:19).

In summary, the Jews celebrated the Feast of Dedication to commemorate the cleansing and rededication of the Temple, expressing gratitude for God’s deliverance from persecution. Jesus’ presence there underscores the continuity between the Temple worship and the revelation of Himself as the living sanctuary, fulfilling the ultimate purpose of the feast.

 

[Rob7]

According to EG White, no one is assured of salvation because God determines their worthiness apart from the sacrifice of Christ at Calvary.

Ellen White makes clear that salvation is entirely a gift of God through Christ, and no individual is inherently assured of it apart from trusting in Jesus’ sacrifice at Calvary. Human obedience and faithfulness serve as the fruit of salvation, but never as the ground for it.

Salvation is entirely dependent on the sacrificial atonement of Jesus Christ at Calvary. Human worthiness alone does not determine eternal life. Ellen White emphasizes that while God judges righteously, it is only through faith in Christ’s atoning work that anyone can be reconciled to God and receive salvation.

The apparent tension between Ellen G. White's statement in Patriarchs & Prophets (PP 357.5) and Hebrews 10:17 can be harmonized when understood in the context of Adventist sanctuary theology.

Harmonizing the Two Statements:​

• Immediate Forgiveness vs. Final Atonement:
  EGW teaches that while God forgives and absolves the believer at conversion, the heavenly sanctuary still retains a record of sin until the investigative judgment. This record serves to demonstrate God’s justice and the integrity of the salvation process, ensuring that grace does not bypass the law.
• Hebrews 10 emphasizes relational pardon:
  Believers can rest assured that sin no longer separates them from God. The Spirit testifies that, relationally, God treats the repentant as if they are righteous. This is spiritual and relational forgiveness, whereas the sanctuary record is judicial and cosmic, revealing God’s plan to angels and the universe (cf. PP 356–357).
• Analogy with the Day of Atonement in Leviticus:
  In the Old Testament, the blood of the sin offering covered sins immediately, but the full removal occurred on the Day of Atonement. Christ fulfills this typology: believers are immediately justified, but the ultimate public demonstration of sin’s removal aligns with the heavenly Day of Atonement—the investigative judgment.

I can understand Inquisitors and your misunderstanding and rebellion against the Sanctuary truth, as presented by SDAs. as it supports a religion of obedience to and Love for God, rather than one of rebellion, per Satan and His Anti-Christ Religion of Man !!

According to the false prophet EG White, only those who are sinless and have obeyed the sabbath law will be found in heaven.

Your statement here, that I said is not true and a FALSE ASSUMPTION ... Stems from; from your ignorance and misunderstanding of the God's Earthly and Heavenly Sanctuary service/theology and it's relation as part of God's Final Judgment and Atonement, taking place in His Heavenly Sanctuary NOW, which began in 1844.

This understanding is unique to Adventist, because we we're ordained by God, to be the people to open and understand the "Little Book" (Revelation 10:2, 8-10), where John is instructed to eat a small scroll.

This "little book" in Revelation to the Book of Daniel because Daniel is the only biblical book described as being sealed until the time of the end (Daniel 12:4, 9)

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[BetterCallPsalms]

Do you mean I can’t wear my camping/ hiking gear, or soccer jersey? (sorry, some people don’t get my sense of humor. Lol).

lol. I think God is more interested in ones mind and heart and not what you are wearing, not saying anything against those who dress up for services, I just never got into it.

 

[Rob7]

I'm sorry Folks for not being able to keep up with responding to your accusations, queries, and comments. Spring has sprung here in Middle TN, USA and many outside chores have a higher priority, ( chickens, gardens, shop and machinery maintenance and acquiring supplies, ETC ... for "this Covid19" style depression X3, coming SOON to a neighborhood, near YOU !! ...as does this Revelation Seminar that I'm hosting, right now, locally, which is bringing people to an understanding of the why & what is actually happening in the world NOW from a prophetic view point. Waking people up to the Conflict Between Good & Evil, present NOW< TODAY !!

Trump's War with Iran, ( being a proxy for Israel) to close down the Straights of Hormuz, TO seriously threaten the world's fertilizer and oil supplies, has motivated me to increase my gardens, and stock up on a few 100 gal. of diesel & gas, !

SOON it's will be unavailable and in short supply at any $$. The USA won't be as bad as most places in the World, but Famine, Starvation and Death, + wars, and earthquakes are ALL prophecied for these Last Days, just before the Lord's return.
.... His Eminent Return !!

The Papacy has been upping her game, promoting, Her MOTB... and I'm expecting a "Black Swan Event" to hasten her Agenda for World Subjugation, at any moment...

Oh ! I hear the Pope is going to be visiting the USA, come July? I'm wondering what this self-proclaimed, " God on Earth" will have to say to our Congress, like the last time a Pope addressed Congress. Tis interesting times we live in.... Repent and be converted !

Oh! @Inquisitor , @Gideon300 , @pinebeach
I'm assuming that you folks consider yourselves "SINLESS" , by your promoting, the OSAS theology, by your believing your not under the Commandments as required to be obedient to God, for your Salvation. Please, explain to me how that works...

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[Gideon300]

I'm sorry Folks for not being able to keep up with responding to your accusations, queries, and comments. Spring has sprung here in Middle TN, USA and many outside chores have a higher priority, ( chickens, gardens, shop and machinery maintenance and acquiring supplies, ETC ... for "this Covid19" style depression X3, coming SOON to a neighborhood, near YOU !! ...as does this Revelation Seminar that I'm hosting, right now, locally, which is bringing people to an understanding of the why & what is actually happening in the world NOW from a prophetic view point. Waking people up to the Conflict Between Good & Evil, present NOW< TODAY !!

Trump's War with Iran, ( being a proxy for Israel) to close down the Straights of Hormuz, TO seriously threaten the world's fertilizer and oil supplies, has motivated me to increase my gardens, and stock up on a few 100 gal. of diesel & gas, !

SOON it's will be unavailable and in short supply at any $$. The USA won't be as bad as most places in the World, but Famine, Starvation and Death, + wars, and earthquakes are ALL prophecied for these Last Days, just before the Lord's return.
.... His Eminent Return !!

The Papacy has been upping her game, promoting, Her MOTB... and I'm expecting a "Black Swan Event" to hasten her Agenda for World Subjugation, at any moment...

Oh ! I hear the Pope is going to be visiting the USA, come July? I'm wondering what this self-proclaimed, " God on Earth" will have to say to our Congress, like the last time a Pope addressed Congress. Tis interesting times we live in.... Repent and be converted !

Oh! @Inquisitor , @Gideon300 , @pinebeach
I'm assuming that you folks consider yourselves "SINLESS" , by your promoting, the OSAS theology, by your believing your not under the Commandments as required to be obedient to God, for your Salvation. Please, explain to me how that works...

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​

Your assumptions are as false as SDA sabbath doctrine and your obsession with the false prophet EG White.

Those who are born again do not condone or excuse sin. That does not mean that believers do not sin. The part of us that is born again is the spirit and the spirit does not sin.

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10

Some of us believe that we are not under the 10 commandments because the word of God expressly says so. Of course, SDA heresy cherry picks and twists God's word to argue against the truth.

SDA heresy claims that believers must be sinless, the fallacy of investigative judgement. How anyone can begin to take that seriously is beyond my comprehension.

I'll tell the truth. To be born again means to have eternal life. It is God who causes us to be born again. It is God who puts us into Christ Jesus. Salvation is of God. SDA makes salvation is conditional on man's efforts, which is an insult to the grace and love of God, and the sacrifice of Christ on the cross.

Believers should obey Christ. That is not the same as obeying the 10 commandments. Lord Jesus leads us in our spirit man. He is our enabling to live the life that pleases God, if we will depend on Him. Our eternal destiny is settled the moment we accept Christ as Saviour. Our eternal rewards are contingent on our lives from that time on. They are not the same thing.

 

[Gideon300]

Ellen White makes clear that salvation is entirely a gift of God through Christ, and no individual is inherently assured of it apart from trusting in Jesus’ sacrifice at Calvary. Human obedience and faithfulness serve as the fruit of salvation, but never as the ground for it.

Salvation is entirely dependent on the sacrificial atonement of Jesus Christ at Calvary. Human worthiness alone does not determine eternal life. Ellen White emphasizes that while God judges righteously, it is only through faith in Christ’s atoning work that anyone can be reconciled to God and receive salvation.

The apparent tension between Ellen G. White's statement in Patriarchs & Prophets (PP 357.5) and Hebrews 10:17 can be harmonized when understood in the context of Adventist sanctuary theology.

Harmonizing the Two Statements:​

• Immediate Forgiveness vs. Final Atonement:
  EGW teaches that while God forgives and absolves the believer at conversion, the heavenly sanctuary still retains a record of sin until the investigative judgment. This record serves to demonstrate God’s justice and the integrity of the salvation process, ensuring that grace does not bypass the law.
• Hebrews 10 emphasizes relational pardon:
  Believers can rest assured that sin no longer separates them from God. The Spirit testifies that, relationally, God treats the repentant as if they are righteous. This is spiritual and relational forgiveness, whereas the sanctuary record is judicial and cosmic, revealing God’s plan to angels and the universe (cf. PP 356–357).
• Analogy with the Day of Atonement in Leviticus:
  In the Old Testament, the blood of the sin offering covered sins immediately, but the full removal occurred on the Day of Atonement. Christ fulfills this typology: believers are immediately justified, but the ultimate public demonstration of sin’s removal aligns with the heavenly Day of Atonement—the investigative judgment.

I can understand Inquisitors and your misunderstanding and rebellion against the Sanctuary truth, as presented by SDAs. as it supports a religion of obedience to and Love for God, rather than one of rebellion, per Satan and His Anti-Christ Religion of Man !!


Your statement here, that I said is not true and a FALSE ASSUMPTION ... Stems from; from your ignorance and misunderstanding of the God's Earthly and Heavenly Sanctuary service/theology and it's relation as part of God's Final Judgment and Atonement, taking place in His Heavenly Sanctuary NOW, which began in 1844.

This understanding is unique to Adventist, because we we're ordained by God, to be the people to open and understand the "Little Book" (Revelation 10:2, 8-10), where John is instructed to eat a small scroll.

This "little book" in Revelation to the Book of Daniel because Daniel is the only biblical book described as being sealed until the time of the end (Daniel 12:4, 9)

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So you reject the false doctrine of investigative judgement? That's something anyway. All you need now is to quit trying to impose the Sabbath law for Israel on Gentiles like me.

Ordained by God............. thanks, I needed a good laugh today.

 

[Inquisitor]

No ! I could not "explain the following feast" OR competently explain "why the Jews celebrated this feast?"
I've heard a little about Hanukkah, but really have had no need, to understand it in depth... so here is AI explaining to you & I

You have a Bible that is missing 1 Maccabees.

So you obviously are not aware that the verse below was fulfilled centuries after Daniel gave the prophecy.

Daniel 8:14
And he said to him, “For two thousand and three hundred evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary shall be
restored to its rightful state.”

Daniel 8 predicts the desecration, 1 Maccabees documents the purification (Hanukkah), and John 10 shows Jesus
present at the celebration of that historical victory.

​

 

[Inquisitor]

So you reject the false doctrine of investigative judgement? That's something anyway. All you need now is to quit trying to impose the Sabbath law for Israel on Gentiles like me.

Ordained by God............. thanks, I needed a good laugh today.

I can understand Inquisitors and your misunderstanding and rebellion against the Sanctuary truth, as presented
by SDAs. as it supports a religion of obedience to and Love for God, rather than one of rebellion, per Satan and
His Anti-Christ Religion of Man !!

Huh?

The SDA promote the law and the law was only given to Israel.

Gentiles were never under the law.

It is simple to understand and all you need to do is read the scripture without changing any phrases.

 

[Gideon300]

I can understand Inquisitors and your misunderstanding and rebellion against the Sanctuary truth, as presented
by SDAs. as it supports a religion of obedience to and Love for God, rather than one of rebellion, per Satan and
His Anti-Christ Religion of Man !!

Huh?

The SDA promote the law and the law was only given to Israel.

Gentiles were never under the law.

It is simple to understand and all you need to do is read the scripture without changing any phrases.

That will be the day..............

 

[WiselyWoven]

I'm assuming that you folks consider yourselves "SINLESS" ...by your believing your not under the Commandments as required to be obedient to God, for your Salvation. Please, explain to me how that works...

That assumption is incorrect, as explained previously here.

 

[Rob7]

Even before Jesus came, there were those who "walked in all of the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless" (Luke 1:5-6). But this has nothing to do with the New Testament believer. For we are not under law but under grace (Rom. 6:14). "Where there is no law there is no transgression" (Rom. 4:15).

The New Testament "LORD's Gospel" of obedience VS ...
man's religion of disobedience, = Lawlessness ~> 2 Thessalonians 2:3–12

The question of keeping the commandments, including the seventh-day Sabbath, as New Testament believers under grace is a nuanced issue that can be understood by examining the teachings of the Bible.

1. The Commandments and Grace​

In the New Testament, there is a clear emphasis on grace over law. In Romans 6:14, Paul writes, "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law but under grace." This reflects the transition from the Old Covenant, which was governed by the law, to the New Covenant, which is under grace through Jesus Christ. However, this does not mean the law is abolished; rather, it is fulfilled in Christ.

In Matthew 5:17, Jesus Himself said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." Jesus fulfilled the law by living a sinless life and by becoming the perfect sacrifice for sin. In this sense, believers are not bound by the law as a means to salvation, but the law still serves as a moral guide.

2. Grace and the Commandments​

Grace does not nullify the law. Instead, grace enables believers to keep the commandments, including the seventh-day Sabbath.

“Christ’s law is a law of liberty, and those who keep the commandments of God in faith will find peace and joy in the Sabbath rest” (Desire of Ages, p. 283). Here, White emphasizes that through grace, Christians are empowered to obey God's commandments, not because they must in order to earn salvation, but because they are saved by grace and desire to live in accordance with God’s will.

3. The Seventh-Day Sabbath​

While the Old Testament law required the observance of the Sabbath, Jesus' example shows that the Sabbath was made for man's benefit, not to be a burden. In Mark 2:27, Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." This implies that the Sabbath is a gift and a blessing, meant to provide spiritual and physical rest.

“The Sabbath is the sign of God’s creative power, and in it we commemorate His finished work” (Great Controversy, p. 438). She also emphasizes that the Sabbath was observed by Jesus during His earthly ministry, showing that New Testament believers should continue to honor the Sabbath, not out of obligation, but in response to God's grace and LOVE.

4. "Where There is No Law, There is No Transgression" (Romans 4:15)​

5. Following Jesus' Example​

The life of Jesus serves as the ultimate example of obedience. Jesus kept the commandments, including the Sabbath, and as His followers, New Testament believers are called to follow His example (1 John 2:6). Jesus' obedience was not about fulfilling the law for salvation, but about fulfilling the will of His Father.

1 John 2:6 "He that says he abides in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." & Gal 2:20
In summary, as New Testament believers, we are indeed under grace, and the law serves as a guide to live according to God's will. The commandments, including the Seventh-Day Sabbath, are not abolished but are fulfilled in Christ. We keep the commandments out of love for God and in response to the grace we have received. Jesus, through His life and teachings, set the perfect example for how to observe the commandments, and as His followers, we are called to do the same.

Grace enables us to live in obedience to God’s Will rather than legalistic efforts to earn salvation, through disobedience.

【†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† ~~ Blessings ~~ ††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††】​

 

[Rob7]

4. "Where There is No Law, There is No Transgression" (Romans 4:15)​

Romans 4:15 explains that without the law, there can be no transgression. The role of the law, in this case, is to reveal sin. Paul makes it clear that salvation comes by grace, not by law-keeping (Ephesians 2:8-9). The law, including the commandments, serves to show the difference between good and evil, but it is only by grace through faith in Christ that we can be saved.

1. The Role of the Law in Revealing Sin​

Paul is particularly clear about the relationship between the law and sin. The law does not save us, but it acts as a mirror to reveal our sinfulness. Here's how:

Romans 3:20​

"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Paul emphasizes here that the law itself cannot justify or save anyone. Instead, its primary function is to show us our sin. It is by the law that we become aware of our moral shortcomings, because it defines what is right and wrong according to God’s standard.

Romans 7:7​

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, 'You shall not covet.'"

Paul affirms that the law is not sinful, but that it makes us aware of our sin. Without the law, we would not know what constitutes sin, as it defines transgressions like coveting. The law reveals sin by pointing out what is wrong.

Galatians 3:24​

"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

Paul explains that the law serves as a "tutor" or "schoolmaster" that leads us to Christ. It shows us our inability to meet God’s standard on our own, and thus points us toward the need for a Savior—Jesus Christ. The law makes it clear that we are sinners in need of redemption, preparing us to accept God's grace through faith in Jesus.

2. The Purpose of the Law: To Show Us the Need for Redemption​

The law functions to expose sin but also highlights the need for a Redeemer. Since all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory (Romans 3:23), the law shows us that we are in need of salvation through Jesus Christ.

Romans 4:15​

"Because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression."

The law brings the knowledge of sin. Without a law, there can be no transgression because there would be no standard by which to measure wrongdoing. The law's presence makes us aware of our transgressions, showing us our need for grace and forgiveness.

Romans 5:20-21​

"Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

While the law highlights our sins, it also makes God's grace more evident. Paul writes that where sin abounded, grace much more abounded. This shows that the law’s purpose is not to condemn us eternally, but to lead us to Christ, who offers redemption through His grace.

3. Jesus' Role in Fulfilling the Law and Redeeming Us from Sin​

Jesus’ mission was to fulfill the law and provide a solution to the sin problem revealed by the law. The law's role is to convict of sin, but Jesus came to redeem us from sin's penalty.

Matthew 5:17​

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

Jesus affirms that He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Jesus' perfect obedience to the law, even in its fullest sense, is what enables us to be justified by faith in Him. He fulfilled the righteous demands of the law on our behalf.

Romans 8:3-4​

"For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

The law was powerless to save because of human weakness. Jesus came in the flesh, took on sin, and condemned sin in His own body. In doing so, He fulfilled the righteous requirement of the law, making it possible for us to be justified and empowered to live according to the Spirit, not according to the flesh.

Galatians 3:13​

"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree')."

The law brings a curse because it condemns us for our inability to keep it perfectly. Jesus, by dying on the cross, took that curse upon Himself, redeeming us from its penalty. Jesus’ death paid the price for the sins that the law reveals in us.

4. The Law, Jesus, and the Believer’s New Life​

For the believer, the law no longer serves as a means to salvation but rather as a guide to living a righteous life in Christ. The law remains relevant because it shows the Will of God, and in Christ, we are empowered to live out that Will. Gal 2:20

Romans 8:1-2​

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."

In Christ, we are free from the condemnation of the law because He fulfilled it on our behalf. However, the law still functions as a guide to holy living, as we walk in the Spirit.

1 John 3:4​

"Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness."

John clarifies that sin is breaking God's law, further underscoring the law's role in defining sin. Even as believers, we are called to live in accordance with God’s moral commands, empowered by grace.

The law is essential because it reveals sin. Without it, we would not know what sin is ( Romans 7:7 ). However, the law also points us to the necessity of redemption. Jesus fulfilled the law, took upon Himself its curse, and offers grace to all who believe in Him. While we are not saved by law-keeping, we are called to live in accordance with God’s will as revealed in the law, empowered by the grace of Christ, thru His Holy Spirit. Gal 2:20

Jesus came to fulfill the law and to redeem us from the penalty that the law reveals. As believers, we are not under condemnation because of grace, but we are still called to honor God's commandments, including His moral law, as a response to the grace we have received in Christ.

@Gideon300 ... your believing the Anti-Christ's ( the RCC's ) exegesis of scripture, "salvation by Grace alone" as is WiselyWoven, et al, rather than having Faith in Christ and His Righteousness, ... Jesus' "Right doing" of the Law, ... Loving and doing the Will of His Father.

"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you: continue you in my love. If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:9-10.

Jesus was God on Earth, proving & lifting up God's Law, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, one Way, one Truth, one Law, to Life, unchangeable.

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[Gideon300]

That assumption is incorrect, as explained previously here.

3. Jesus' Role in Fulfilling the Law and Redeeming Us from Sin
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I had to delete most of your pose because of the forum restrictions.
RCC believes salvation by grace alone? Where did you get that from? If they had, there may well not have been a protestant movement. It was only one of Luther's 95 disagreements, but it was a central one.

You refuse to accept God's word, insisting on putting grace under the law. There are millions of believers who were saved without knowing God's law. They are from nations that have no Christian foundation. People know right from wrong instinctively.

The Law is the shadow. As I've said several times, feel free to live in the shadows. I'll live in the light. I live by the law, but it's the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

 

[Inquisitor]

The New Testament "LORD's Gospel" of obedience VS ...
man's religion of disobedience, = Lawlessness ~> 2 Thessalonians 2:3–12

The question of keeping the commandments, including the seventh-day Sabbath, as New Testament believers under grace is a nuanced issue that can be understood by examining the teachings of the Bible.

1. The Commandments and Grace​

In the New Testament, there is a clear emphasis on grace over law. In Romans 6:14, Paul writes, "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law but under grace." This reflects the transition from the Old Covenant, which was governed by the law, to the New Covenant, which is under grace through Jesus Christ. However, this does not mean the law is abolished; rather, it is fulfilled in Christ.

In Matthew 5:17, Jesus Himself said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." Jesus fulfilled the law by living a sinless life and by becoming the perfect sacrifice for sin. In this sense, believers are not bound by the law as a means to salvation, but the law still serves as a moral guide.

2. Grace and the Commandments​

Grace does not nullify the law. Instead, grace enables believers to keep the commandments, including the seventh-day Sabbath.

“Christ’s law is a law of liberty, and those who keep the commandments of God in faith will find peace and joy in the Sabbath rest” (Desire of Ages, p. 283). Here, White emphasizes that through grace, Christians are empowered to obey God's commandments, not because they must in order to earn salvation, but because they are saved by grace and desire to live in accordance with God’s will.

3. The Seventh-Day Sabbath​

While the Old Testament law required the observance of the Sabbath, Jesus' example shows that the Sabbath was made for man's benefit, not to be a burden. In Mark 2:27, Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." This implies that the Sabbath is a gift and a blessing, meant to provide spiritual and physical rest.

“The Sabbath is the sign of God’s creative power, and in it we commemorate His finished work” (Great Controversy, p. 438). She also emphasizes that the Sabbath was observed by Jesus during His earthly ministry, showing that New Testament believers should continue to honor the Sabbath, not out of obligation, but in response to God's grace and LOVE.

4. "Where There is No Law, There is No Transgression" (Romans 4:15)​

5. Following Jesus' Example​

The life of Jesus serves as the ultimate example of obedience. Jesus kept the commandments, including the Sabbath, and as His followers, New Testament believers are called to follow His example (1 John 2:6). Jesus' obedience was not about fulfilling the law for salvation, but about fulfilling the will of His Father.

1 John 2:6 "He that says he abides in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." & Gal 2:20
In summary, as New Testament believers, we are indeed under grace, and the law serves as a guide to live according to God's will. The commandments, including the Seventh-Day Sabbath, are not abolished but are fulfilled in Christ. We keep the commandments out of love for God and in response to the grace we have received. Jesus, through His life and teachings, set the perfect example for how to observe the commandments, and as His followers, we are called to do the same.

Grace enables us to live in obedience to God’s Will rather than legalistic efforts to earn salvation, through disobedience.

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The former covenant was between Israel and God.

The Gentiles were not members of the former covenant.

Gentiles were never under the law and never even knew God and Paul states this below.

Romans 9:3-5
For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen
according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants
and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is
the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Placing yourself under the law (the ten commandments) as a Gentile is the alternate gospel.

Is was a grave mistake that the church made in the second century and this error persisted down to this
very day.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law (the ten commandments) but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law (the ten commandments) but under grace? May it never be!

 

[Inquisitor]

4. The Law, Jesus, and the Believer’s New Life​

For the believer, the law no longer serves as a means to salvation but rather as a guide to living a righteous life in Christ. The law remains relevant because it shows the Will of God, and in Christ, we are empowered to live out that Will. Gal 2:20

You stated the text above.

Then added the following verse below in post #817

In Christ, we are free from the condemnation of the law because He fulfilled it on our behalf. However, the law still functions as a guide to holy living, as we walk in the Spirit.

Gentiles never knew God and were not included in that former covenant between God and Israel (Exodus 24).

You must understand that Paul is explaining that the Jews were under the law not the Gentiles.

Paul is addressing the Jews in Rome (Romans 9:1-5).

It is impossible for a Gentile to be under the law and to do so requires circumcision and living in Israel.

Exodus 12:48-49
Stipulates that if a stranger sojourns and wants to keep the Passover, all males must be circumcised, allowing
them to be "as a native of the land," with "one law" for both.

The law states the only way for a Gentile to join that old covenant and place themselves under the law.

You cannot ignore what the law states.

You were under the law of Noah but now you are under grace and under the law of Christ.