Already Started

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,369
113
#21
We're becoming a cashless society starting with the coins starting to be put on the ban list. Today I went to Walmart and they made their self checkout cards only. No cash. Cash money will be the next thing they ban. And it will seem to make sense because if contaminants can last on coins for a long time, imagine how long they'll say, it survives in the fibers of our paper money.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#22
Everyone will know when Jesus returns; there will be no missing it.

Matthew 24:42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come."
 
D

DWR

Guest
#23
We're becoming a cashless society starting with the coins starting to be put on the ban list. Today I went to Walmart and they made their self checkout cards only. No cash. Cash money will be the next thing they ban. And it will seem to make sense because if contaminants can last on coins for a long time, imagine how long they'll say, it survives in the fibers of our paper money.
The closest Walmart to my home is 18 miles away. It is very small about 40,000 sq ft.
They only have 4 self check out lanes and they are seldom used.
Us country people expect to be checked out by a real person considering the price we pay.
I once asked if I got a discount for doing the work of an employee (check myself out).
They said no so I just got in line with all other customers.
If they stop taking real money or go to all self checkouts, I will never shop there again.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,369
113
#24
The closest Walmart to my home is 18 miles away. It is very small about 40,000 sq ft.
They only have 4 self check out lanes and they are seldom used.
Us country people expect to be checked out by a real person considering the price we pay.
I once asked if I got a discount for doing the work of an employee (check myself out).
They said no so I just got in line with all other customers.
If they stop taking real money or go to all self checkouts, I will never shop there again.
I prefer to check myself out because sometimes what the price is by scanner isn't what the shelf tag price was. I can catch the errors and save money.
I like to check myself out.That way I don't run into a cashier having a bad day.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,935
7,848
113
#25
we have people waiting in a LONG line to use the one with a cashier, people need jobs.
I don't go to wally world at all, they have driven more small businesses out than anything, when sam was alive it was "buy american" now it is anything for a buck and too heck with American made.
 
D

DWR

Guest
#26
we have people waiting in a LONG line to use the one with a cashier, people need jobs.
I don't go to wally world at all, they have driven more small businesses out than anything, when sam was alive it was "buy american" now it is anything for a buck and too heck with American made.
I only go to Walmart when I can not find what I need anywhere else with out driving 50 miles.
Never, never buy food there.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
#27
Good day, Silverwings!

Do not be alarmed in regards to the mark of the beast. Jesus took upon himself the wrath of God which every believer deserves, satisfying it completely and therefore God's wrath no longer rests upon us. When we believed we were credited with His righteousness and reconciled to God. The seals, trumpets, bowl judgments, the plagues of the two witnesses, the beasts kingdom, his image, his mark and the false prophet, all of the events that takes place during that time period are apart of God's wrath. During the beasts kingdom, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be continue to be carried out with Jesus returning to the earth to end the age after the 7th bowl has been poured out. This being the truth of the matter, believers must then be removed prior to the first seal being opened which initiates God's wrath. If anything, the fact that we are seeing the technology for mark of the beast being set up, it should alert us as to how close the Lord is to fulfilling His promise to calling the dead and living believers up to meet Him in the air to take us back to the Father's house, as described in John 14:1-3 and I Thess.4:13-18.

While it is true that as believers we would face trials and persecutions, which comes at the hands of men and the powers of darkness. We are not appointed to suffer the wrath of God, because Jesus already suffered it on behalf of every believer. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. Therefore, take heart and continue to watch for the blessed hope, the appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ who rescues us from the coming wrath.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
#28
Everything new has somebody claiming it presages the mark of the beast. Remember when it was bar codes?

But if it really IS the beginning of the end... I read somewhere in the Bible where we were supposed to look up, not down or around.
Good day, Lynx!

You are correct regarding the Universal Product Codes (UPC)! I have been following the evolution of the mark technology from when the first ATM's began, followed by the UPC, then the Point of Sale System (POS) with the Verifone devices which allow you to swipe your credit and debit cards and cell phone bank apps. And now the insertion of the RFID chip under the skin of the hand, which will also continue to evolve in preparation for that coming beast and his mark.

And yes, you are correct in that, the fact that we are seeing this mark of the beast technology evolving before our very eyes, should be an indication to us that the Lord is about to call up His church before His wrath begins, which the kingdom of the beast and his mark are apart of.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
#29
Brothers and sisters in Christ, the mark of the beast is not something that would just all of a sudden pop up, but is a system that had to evolve, for it has to do with buying and selling. To put that into perspective in regards to the current technology, that would be electronic crediting and debiting of one's bank account. Some have claimed different things such as the bar codes, etc., as being the mark of the beast and they are correct in part. For all of these things are apart of the evolution of the mark of the beast:

* ATM's

* Universal Product Code (UPC)

* Point of Sale (POS - Verifone device which allows you to swipe your credit and debit cards)

* RFID chip insertion under the skin of the hand

All of the above have been apart of the evolution of the coming mark. The mark will eventually replace all other methods of buying and selling, so that it will be the only way to electronically credit and debit one's bank account. During the reign of the beast all other forms of buying and selling will be made obsolete, leaving the mark as the only means of having access to one bank account. This will force people to make a personal choice to receive the mark or to reject it. Those who love their lives and this world more than God, will receive the mark in order to continue on with their lives. Those who fear God will reject it, keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark and will not love their lives so much as to resist death. However and as previously stated, those who are in Christ will not be here when the beast is revealed and his mark becomes mandatory and that because it will take place during the time of God's wrath, which believers are not appointed to suffer. I know that I have posted the following many times before, but I'll post them here again. These videos are not Christian based but secular and reveal where we are in regards to the evolution of the coming mark:

I put a chip in my hand

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C5293894ECC971F10B69C5293894ECC971F&FORM=VIRE

Why is human microchipping so popular in Sweden

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2743370E610BFFE708A4274&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

=============================================================
He also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
 
Apr 29, 2012
1,194
838
113
#30

Silverwings

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2016
1,368
500
83
#31
Brothers and sisters in Christ, the mark of the beast is not something that would just all of a sudden pop up, but is a system that had to evolve, for it has to do with buying and selling. To put that into perspective in regards to the current technology, that would be electronic crediting and debiting of one's bank account. Some have claimed different things such as the bar codes, etc., as being the mark of the beast and they are correct in part. For all of these things are apart of the evolution of the mark of the beast:

* ATM's

* Universal Product Code (UPC)

* Point of Sale (POS - Verifone device which allows you to swipe your credit and debit cards)

* RFID chip insertion under the skin of the hand

All of the above have been apart of the evolution of the coming mark. The mark will eventually replace all other methods of buying and selling, so that it will be the only way to electronically credit and debit one's bank account. During the reign of the beast all other forms of buying and selling will be made obsolete, leaving the mark as the only means of having access to one bank account. This will force people to make a personal choice to receive the mark or to reject it. Those who love their lives and this world more than God, will receive the mark in order to continue on with their lives. Those who fear God will reject it, keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark and will not love their lives so much as to resist death. However and as previously stated, those who are in Christ will not be here when the beast is revealed and his mark becomes mandatory and that because it will take place during the time of God's wrath, which believers are not appointed to suffer. I know that I have posted the following many times before, but I'll post them here again. These videos are not Christian based but secular and reveal where we are in regards to the evolution of the coming mark:

I put a chip in my hand

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C5293894ECC971F10B69C5293894ECC971F&FORM=VIRE

Why is human microchipping so popular in Sweden

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2743370E610BFFE708A4274&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

=============================================================
He also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
So it is your belief that the chip is not the mark? But something that will come later? If it is not the mark do you plan on being chipped? What do you think the mark will be? and you also believe that believers will be gone before it is implemented? Could you be wrong?
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
27,694
9,621
113
#32
Brothers and sisters in Christ, the mark of the beast is not something that would just all of a sudden pop up, but is a system that had to evolve, for it has to do with buying and selling. To put that into perspective in regards to the current technology, that would be electronic crediting and debiting of one's bank account. Some have claimed different things such as the bar codes, etc., as being the mark of the beast and they are correct in part. For all of these things are apart of the evolution of the mark of the beast:

* ATM's

* Universal Product Code (UPC)

* Point of Sale (POS - Verifone device which allows you to swipe your credit and debit cards)

* RFID chip insertion under the skin of the hand

All of the above have been apart of the evolution of the coming mark. The mark will eventually replace all other methods of buying and selling, so that it will be the only way to electronically credit and debit one's bank account. During the reign of the beast all other forms of buying and selling will be made obsolete, leaving the mark as the only means of having access to one bank account. This will force people to make a personal choice to receive the mark or to reject it. Those who love their lives and this world more than God, will receive the mark in order to continue on with their lives. Those who fear God will reject it, keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark and will not love their lives so much as to resist death. However and as previously stated, those who are in Christ will not be here when the beast is revealed and his mark becomes mandatory and that because it will take place during the time of God's wrath, which believers are not appointed to suffer. I know that I have posted the following many times before, but I'll post them here again. These videos are not Christian based but secular and reveal where we are in regards to the evolution of the coming mark:

I put a chip in my hand

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C5293894ECC971F10B69C5293894ECC971F&FORM=VIRE

Why is human microchipping so popular in Sweden

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2743370E610BFFE708A4274&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

=============================================================
He also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
These things you state are logical extrapolations that make the basis for sound theories. They are however ONLY theories, not facts. We do not know (even you don't know for sure) if these are facts, and we won't know until the mark of the beast comes whether these theories prove out.

Until they prove out (or not) stating them as facts is an error. You have made this error by stating theories as facts. You have stated, "For all of these things are apart of the evolution of the mark of the beast:" There is no way for you to know for certain they even have anything to do with what the mark of the beast will be. It is a logical extrapolation based on what we currently know, but it is not a known fact and cannot be until we know what the mark of the beast will be.

For all we know, it might be a demon that every person willingly accepts, without which nobody will be allowed to buy or sell. :eek:

Again, while these theories are logical, it is a large error to state them as facts.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
#33
So it is your belief that the chip is not the mark? But something that will come later?


Good day, Silverwings!

The ATM's, the Universal Product Code, Point of Sale system and the RFID chip, are all apart of the evolution of the mark of the beast system. All products have their own UPC (bar code) which identifies that particular product when scanned. When you get to the check out, you get our your card and swipe it through the Verifone device which automatically debits your bank account in real-time. If I break my neighbors window, I can use an app on my phone to send $200 to my neighbors account, which debits my account and credits his. Digital debiting and crediting is buying and selling.

Currently, we have this RFID chip being inserted under the skin of the hand which is being used to make purchases (buying). I believe that this chip technology will continue to evolve into something more applicable in preparation for the end product, which will be the mark. However, a good rule of thumb would be to not receive anything on your body for the purpose of making digital purchases.

So in answer to your question, the RFID is the mark in its infancy and will continue to evolve in preparation for the appearing of that antichrist, where it will be utilized for that end-time purpose.

If it is not the mark do you plan on being chipped?
Out of honor to God, I have continued to use paper money and checks. I use my debit card to withdraw cash from my account via ATM so that I can pay with cash. I pay my utilities and such by invoice and check. I know that it is just a matter of time before that option will be taken away. But in answer to your question, I would in no way willfully receive any chip device on my body in order to make purchases and that because I know what that is going to lead to. I feel that all who are in Christ should be resisting this and not embracing it.

What do you think the mark will be?
I believe that this RFID chip is the forerunner to the mark, which will evolve into a more applicable device. The reason I believe this is because the scripture states that it will go on the hand or the forehead. The current RFID chip would leave a bump on your forehead under the skin and so I believe that it will become something smaller for that reason.

The mark on the hand is a convenient location because you can just stick out your hand and be scanned to make your payment. But the only reasons I can think of for the mark being on the forehead would be for those who have no upper limbs or it could be a show of greater worship during the time when people are worshipping the beast. Those who will not receive the mark during that time will be the great tribulation saints, who is that group introduced in Revelation 7:9-17 in white robes which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language, which makes them all Gentiles. These are those who will have come to believe in Christ after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath. Everywhere in scripture where the word 'Saints' is used beginning from Rev.5:8, is referring to the saints during the tribulation/great tribulation.

In opposition to this, the word 'ekklesia' translated as 'church' is used 19 times throughout chapters 1 thru 3 and then is never used within the narrative of God's wrath. It changes to hagios/Saints.

All that said, I believe that Revelation 4:1is a what I call a prophetic allusion to the church being called up and gathered by the Lord, where His voice will sound like a trumpet saying "Come up here and I will show you what must take place after this!" The "what must take place after this, are the events that take place after the church period which ends at Revelation 4:1 and which is why we don't see the word church from that time forward. It is not until Revelation 19:6-8 that the church is alluded to as the bride at the wedding of the Lamb. And it is not until Revelation 22:16 that we see the word church used again, which is outside of the narrative of God's wrath which is in the epilog.

and you also believe that believers will be gone before it is implemented?


Yes, you are correct. I don't believe that those who are currently in Christ will be here during the time of the beast and when his mark becomes mandatory. The reason for this is because Jesus already took upon himself God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely. Therefore, God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer. And since this is the case, then the Lord's promise to come and take us back to the Father's house as described in John 14:1-3 and I Thessalonians 4:13-18 must take place prior to the on-set of God's wrath, which is initiated at Revelation 4:1 and before the opening of the first seal.

Could you be wrong?
Most everything that God does is a legal process. For example: the Lord left heaven to be born as a human being and that so He could represent us, kinning himself to us. The exception is that, as a man He never committed any sin. Just as through Adam came sin and therefore condemnation to all people, so also through One man, Jesus Christ, comes the cleansing of sin and eternal life through faith in Him. God's word says that "unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins." This is a legal precedent which Jesus satisfied by the shedding of His own blood, Him being without sin. The same thing is true regarding the law. We as human being are unable to keep the Law, but Jesus kept it perfectly in the flesh, satisfying that legal precedence. Now, for those who believe in Him the Law has been satisfied completely. As scripture states: "But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

All that said and in answer to your question, Since God's wrath has been completely satisfied through Christ on behalf of every believer, then God's wrath no longer rests upon us and we must therefore be gathered prior to God's coming wrath. To give you an idea of the severity of God's coming wrath, with just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet--a fourth and a third, respectively--this will equal over half the earths population within the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period and that is not including the fatalities that will result from trumpets 1, 2 and 3, nor from the seven bowl judgments. By the time the Lord returns to the earth, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled.

"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short." - Matt.24:21-22

See also the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments in Revelation chapters 6 thru 16
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
#34
These things you state are logical extrapolations that make the basis for sound theories. They are however ONLY theories, not facts. We do not know (even you don't know for sure) if these are facts, and we won't know until the mark of the beast comes whether these theories prove out.

Until they prove out (or not) stating them as facts is an error. You have made this error by stating theories as facts. You have stated, "For all of these things are apart of the evolution of the mark of the beast:" There is no way for you to know for certain they even have anything to do with what the mark of the beast will be. It is a logical extrapolation based on what we currently know, but it is not a known fact and cannot be until we know what the mark of the beast will be.

For all we know, it might be a demon that every person willingly accepts, without which nobody will be allowed to buy or sell. :eek:

Again, while these theories are logical, it is a large error to state them as facts.
Well, I would say that regarding the scriptures we have all of the boxes checked for this. We have a device that is now being inserted under the skin of the hand and that for the purpose of making purchases (buying). The odds of this happening exactly as a 1900 year prophecy declares would be astronomical! I would say, go buy a lottery ticket! Because the odds of what is happening is greater than guessing any lottery number.

The scripture states that the false prophet will cause all to receive a mark on his right hand or forehead. Currently, people are having an RFID chip inserted under the skin of the hand. How can that be theoretical? Then it states that without that mark no one will be able to buy and sell. Regarding the fact that the world is now making purchases with that RFID chip under the skin of the hand, it is no stretch to see its ultimate result. Regarding the mark, what will remain consistent is that mark will go on/in the hand or forehead. That will not change. And the fact that we have people being chipped under the skin of the hand is no theory, because it's happening. So the unchanging scriptural facts are:

* A mark going in/on the hand or forehead

* Without the mark no one will be able to buy or sell

These two are currently being fulfilled and will continue to evolve leading up to the revealing of that antichrist/beast. It is necessary for this mark technology to come into being in preparation for that coming antichrist. This is why God has people study this information and gives them discernment so that they can pass it on to those who don't, as well as to the rest of the world.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,935
7,848
113
#35
Whenever I figure out how he is going to do something, He always does it a different way, the loves to "confound the wise".
 
D

DWR

Guest
#36
Regarding the mark----------------------
The word clearly speaks of something visible. IT CAN BE SEEN.
Now you can believe those who offer their opinion that it will be some kind of chip implanted in the hand or fore head if you wish, but I will accept the Scripture that calls it a MARK.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
27,694
9,621
113
#37
Well, I would say that regarding the scriptures we have all of the boxes checked for this. We have a device that is now being inserted under the skin of the hand and that for the purpose of making purchases (buying). The odds of this happening exactly as a 1900 year prophecy declares would be astronomical! I would say, go buy a lottery ticket! Because the odds of what is happening is greater than guessing any lottery number.

The scripture states that the false prophet will cause all to receive a mark on his right hand or forehead. Currently, people are having an RFID chip inserted under the skin of the hand. How can that be theoretical? Then it states that without that mark no one will be able to buy and sell. Regarding the fact that the world is now making purchases with that RFID chip under the skin of the hand, it is no stretch to see its ultimate result. Regarding the mark, what will remain consistent is that mark will go on/in the hand or forehead. That will not change. And the fact that we have people being chipped under the skin of the hand is no theory, because it's happening. So the unchanging scriptural facts are:

* A mark going in/on the hand or forehead

* Without the mark no one will be able to buy or sell

These two are currently being fulfilled and will continue to evolve leading up to the revealing of that antichrist/beast. It is necessary for this mark technology to come into being in preparation for that coming antichrist. This is why God has people study this information and gives them discernment so that they can pass it on to those who don't, as well as to the rest of the world.
A quote from Sherlock Holmes...
"Circumstantial evidence is a very tricky thing. It may seem to point very straight to one thing, but if you shift your own point of view a little, you may find it pointing in an equally uncompromising manner to something entirely different."

There have been so many prophecies that so many people have spent so much effort to try to figure out how they would happen... And then they turn out exactly the way the Bible said they would and all these theories were wrong. for example, consider all the explanations people came up with for the prophecies about the Jews becoming a nation again.

All these things might be part of the mark of the beast. Maybe not. I will wait and see what happens. But I will not state theories as fact.
 
D

DWR

Guest
#38
A quote from Sherlock Holmes...
"Circumstantial evidence is a very tricky thing. It may seem to point very straight to one thing, but if you shift your own point of view a little, you may find it pointing in an equally uncompromising manner to something entirely different."

There have been so many prophecies that so many people have spent so much effort to try to figure out how they would happen... And then they turn out exactly the way the Bible said they would and all these theories were wrong. for example, consider all the explanations people came up with for the prophecies about the Jews becoming a nation again.

All these things might be part of the mark of the beast. Maybe not. I will wait and see what happens. But I will not state theories as fact.
But some people believe that if THEY believe a theory it is definitely truth and you will never change their mind.
When it comes to the exact details of future events, one should be very careful what they put in print or teach.
Many a man has been made to seem very foolish when things did not happen as they so confidently stated.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
27,694
9,621
113
#39
Yup. "88 Reasons Why The Rapture Will Be In 1988..."
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#40
But some people believe that if THEY believe a theory it is definitely truth and you will never change their mind.
When it comes to the exact details of future events, one should be very careful what they put in print or teach.
Many a man has been made to seem very foolish when things did not happen as they so confidently stated.
Agreed. Seen a believer prophesy terrible earthquakes and disasters in CA some 10 years ago and he set a date for it and uploaded a YouTube video. When it didn't come to pass, he made a new video and changed the date!!! I was like what??? Pretty sure I called him out on changing it, but it was long ago. Later he removed the video. In conclusion, it is much better to not prophesy than to prophesy falsely, and it's an embarrassment to themselves, to Christ and to the church.