Am I a prophet 🌠🌠🌠🌠🌠🌠🌠🌠

[DJT_47]

Explain what you mean by this and where, if anywhere, you think the Bible teaches your idea.

The Bible says to covet to prophesy. You seem to be presenting this 'completed word of God' idea to contradict what that scripture says. Can you explain this concept and back it up from scripture?

We know the word of God is complete and if complete what else can be said? What more can be added? And to confirm this there are clear warnings in both the OT and NT about adding to, taking away from, or not obeying the word of God. Although only listed in a few discreet scriptures, that does not mean that it cannot or should not pertain to the entirety of God's word. Ref. Deuteronemy 4:2, 12:32, Revelation 22:19, Galatians 1:6-9, Proverbs 30:5-6

 

[Niki7]

it has been my experience that the Censessionist do not want to speak of the text found in 1cor chapter 13:8-10. They just cry for a performance, do a miracle for them. As you can see, they do that here very often.

They result to name calling. They use outside sources not found in the bible but the secular humanistic approach to discredit The Gift of the Holy Spirit. Even when the very passages found in 1cor chapter 14 state the mind is unfruitful, they are spiritually discerned.

They will completely ignore where we agree with the abuses that are many with the gifts. Yet we do not see in the word of God where the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased. They can't prove that with the word of God, so they "say show me," Perform healings," etc..


Then go to the world's scientific explanation to explain the word of God or spiritual things. I have debated Athiest, who does that.

Sure. I Cor.13: 8-10 is their 'go to' magna carta from which to assert that tongues have ceased. But as I like to say, well the part about knowledge may be true for some, but we have not arrived at 'perfect' yet. v12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. Who here has at last seen Jesus and they can say they know Him completely even as He now knows us?

Well no one of course! So we should understand this portion of scripture to be saying that spiritual gifts will no longer be needed for our edification when we see the One to whom the gifts should direct anyway. It is actually pretty logical IMO.

I would think that the very sight of Jesus as He truly is now, would just shut everyone up. We argue all the time about what the Bible is saying or think it to be saying. But Jesus Himself is that very incarnate word and what can be said when you finally see Him face to face as He truly is.

All I have to do is think about how God has made Himself real to me to the point I could not deny He is real and that by what some here will argue about and say no longer happens. But His word grips your heart also when you are filled with the Holy Spirit.

Anyway, what part does faith play in our accepting and understanding these things? Are we really expected to suddenly walk by sight after accepting Christ by faith? Well, Paul wrote a whole book on that that goes by the name of 'Galatians' and he wants to know who bewitched the Galatians that they should suddenly decide to walk after Christ in a different manner than that in which they started.

It is almost humorous to see the befuddlement because the answer to that question is obvious.

 

[CS1]

We know the word of God is complete and if complete what else can be said? What more can be added? And to confirm this there are clear warnings in both the OT and NT about adding to, taking away from, or not obeying the word of God. Although only listed in a few discreet scriptures, that does not mean that it cannot or should not pertain to the entirety of God's word. Ref. Deuteronemy 4:2, 12:32, Revelation 22:19, Galatians 1:6-9, Proverbs 30:5-6

I agree no one is adding to but you do know that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Supreme Authority in the very word of God when HE is speaking?

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed in Him, “If ye continue in My Word, then are ye My disciples indeed.

Jesus said in John 14:12-14 12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

Jesus also said in John 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.

Jesus also said in Mark 16:15-18 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”


The Lord Jesus Christ said that. And it has not stopped HIS word is alive and continues to do what HIS words said they would do. Jesus never said Once the canonization happens, my words are no longer relevant. FYI HE IS the Word of God. Fully and completely. Paul did not teach the opposite of our Lord. Paul did and taught the same as our Lord. We see in 1cor chapters 12 through 14 that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today. If you have not seen it, that is on you, nor is it my job to prove it to you.

I believe what Jesus said.

 

[CS1]

Sure. I Cor.13: 8-10 is their 'go to' magna carta from which to assert that tongues have ceased. But as I like to say, well the part about knowledge may be true for some, but we have not arrived at 'perfect' yet. v12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. Who here has at last seen Jesus and they can say they know Him completely even as He now knows us?

Well no one of course! So we should understand this portion of scripture to be saying that spiritual gifts will no longer be needed for our edification when we see the One to whom the gifts should direct anyway. It is actually pretty logical IMO.

I would think that the very sight of Jesus as He truly is now, would just shut everyone up. We argue all the time about what the Bible is saying or think it to be saying. But Jesus Himself is that very incarnate word and what can be said when you finally see Him face to face as He truly is.

All I have to do is think about how God has made Himself real to me to the point I could not deny He is real and that by what some here will argue about and say no longer happens. But His word grips your heart also when you are filled with the Holy Spirit.

Anyway, what part does faith play in our accepting and understanding these things? Are we really expected to suddenly walk by sight after accepting Christ by faith? Well, Paul wrote a whole book on that that goes by the name of 'Galatians' and he wants to know who bewitched the Galatians that they should suddenly decide to walk after Christ in a different manner than that in which they started.

It is almost humorous to see the befuddlement because the answer to that question is obvious.

the inappropriate exegesis for 1cor chapter 13:8-10 is done at the sacrifice of chapters 12 and 14. The unit chapter is contextual from 12 to 14 in 1Corthians.

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Holy smokes.

The gift of prophecy is a gift from the holy spirit,

The prophecy will only come out of your lips because it's being spoken by the holy spirit to somebody who needs help in believing in God. It will be witnessed by two atheists and the prophecy will come true. The atheists will then go on to believe in God.

The prophecy will be spoken to an unbelieving athiest. Once the prophecy has come true the unbelieving person will hopefully believe God is real.

Once the prophecy has been spoken the Gift of prophecy has gone.

If you then go into another place where somebody needs help with believing, the gift of prophecy could come to you again, via the holy spirit speaking through you.

Once the prophecy is finished the gift is gone.

So basically you have recieved a gift and passed it on. But your no longer a prophet until a new gift of prophecy comes.

Let's look to scripture where a born again athiest can also have a prophesy spoke through them from the holy spirit.

All people who feel oppressed please feel to disagree with me.

The born again athiest who speaks a prophesy.

The Parable of the Persistent Widow
18 Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’ ( this lady was also praying for God to speak).

4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”

6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says (the born again athiest where The spirit had spoke through him.);. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

You're reading a meaning into that parable that isn't there. Jesus begins and ends the parable with its clear meaning: we must persist in our prayers. It doesn't have anything to do with prophets' gifts.

 

[presidente]

They will completely ignore where we agree with the abuses that are many with the gifts. Yet we do not see in the word of God where the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased. They can't prove that with the word of God, so they "say show me," Perform healings," etc..

I find it ironic if someone finds it inherently sinful to seek a sign, or even demand a sign... then demand a sign.

 

[Niki7]

Does it occur to anyone that Paul would have had to be schizophrenic to write all about the gifts then turn around and tell us that they are no longer needed because the 'perfect' has come?

You really cannot wrap your head around that if you give it some thought.

What was the perfect to Paul? The completed canon of scripture? Well hardly. He was writing letters.

That some churches need correction like the Corinthians? Sure. But cessationist churches also need correction. Forbid not to speak in tongues means do not forbid people to speak in tongues but do it correctly as per my instructions.

Yeah so either Paul suffered from schizophrenia or some of todays believers do not understand Paul was writing and speaking to contemporaries and not blogging to todays cessationists.

 

[DJT_47]

I agree no one is adding to but you do know that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Supreme Authority in the very word of God when HE is speaking?

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed in Him, “If ye continue in My Word, then are ye My disciples indeed.

Jesus said in John 14:12-14 12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

Jesus also said in John 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.

Jesus also said in Mark 16:15-18 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”


The Lord Jesus Christ said that. And it has not stopped HIS word is alive and continues to do what HIS words said they would do. Jesus never said Once the canonization happens, my words are no longer relevant. FYI HE IS the Word of God. Fully and completely. Paul did not teach the opposite of our Lord. Paul did and taught the same as our Lord. We see in 1cor chapters 12 through 14 that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today. If you have not seen it, that is on you, nor is it my job to prove it to you.

I believe what Jesus said.

Jesus may in fact be the Supreme authority but he would never contradict himself or scripture. Not possible. The word or God is unchanging and everlasting.

 

[presidente]

We know the word of God is complete and if complete what else can be said? What more can be added? And to confirm this there are clear warnings in both the OT and NT about adding to, taking away from, or not obeying the word of God. Although only listed in a few discreet scriptures, that does not mean that it cannot or should not pertain to the entirety of God's word. Ref. Deuteronemy 4:2, 12:32, Revelation 22:19, Galatians 1:6-9, Proverbs 30:5-6

Your response was to the idea of where Paul says to eagerly desire to prophesy. So do you think Paul was telling God's people to do something contrary to the verses in Deuteronomy, Galatians, and Proverbs? If those verses mean people were not allowed to prophesy after they were written, then Paul would have been wrong to tell people in the church to prophesy, wouldn't he? Clearly, you aren't interpreting these passages the way Paul would have.

You don't think the two witnesses were supposed to sin by prophesying? Their prophesying would have to take place after the book of Revelation was written, wouldn't it... no matter what your eschatology is?

 

[Inquisitor]

Future telling is done and over. No doubt about that in my mind.

This is not that. It is "speaking forth" the Word of God.

1Co 14:3
But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouragement, and consolation.

Ultimately, a person's viewpoint on the relevance of the gifts of the Holy spirit. Is directly related to the type of church they attend.

If you attend an independent church denomination, you could well be open to some of the gifts.

A Pentecostal church member will be open to nearly all the gifts.

If you attend a traditional church, you might have only healing and perhaps knowledge. Some traditional churches may only have the gifts of faith, hope, and love.

If you belong to Judaism, Jesus has not risen.

So we have a Christian law in place.

The type of church you attend is directly proportional to your understanding, of the relevance of spiritual gifts.

That is a fact.

 

[DJT_47]

Your response was to the idea of where Paul says to eagerly desire to prophesy. So do you think Paul was telling God's people to do something contrary to the verses in Deuteronomy, Galatians, and Proverbs? If those verses mean people were not allowed to prophesy after they were written, then Paul would have been wrong to tell people in the church to prophesy, wouldn't he? Clearly, you aren't interpreting these passages the way Paul would have.

You don't think the two witnesses were supposed to sin by prophesying? Their prophesying would have to take place after the book of Revelation was written, wouldn't it... no matter what your eschatology is?

Who was Paul addressing? Us today and as a world-wide body, or the Corinthians 2000 years ago and their issues at that time and predicated upon the nature of the church at that time and place? That's one of the problems in the way people erroneously look at scripture. Part of rightly dividing the word by understanding it's context and how it relates go us today.

 

[Fundaamental]

You're reading a meaning into that parable that isn't there. Jesus begins and ends the parable with its clear meaning: we must persist in our prayers. It doesn't have anything to do with prophets' gifts.

yes many would say this, but God can talk through a donkey.

 

[hornetguy]

Future telling is done and over. No doubt about that in my mind.

There is a mountain of doubt about that in my mind...

just sayin.....

 

[Inquisitor]

Who was Paul addressing? Us today and as a world-wide body, or the Corinthians 2000 years ago and their issues at that time and predicated upon the nature of the church at that time and place? That's one of the problems in the way people erroneously look at scripture. Part of rightly dividing the word by understanding it's context and how it relates go us today.

Your understanding, interpretation of the scripture, is something that you are taught. You are conditioned into a way of reading and comprehending the scripture. For most folk, the church they are raised in is the type of church they will remain in.

I have seen people crossing over to different church denominations. Some get the surprise of their lives.

I have attended probably close to twenty different church denominations, across the spectrum.

I know where the Holy Spirit is active and powerful.

There is no debate on this subject.

Either, you have directly experienced the full power of the Holy Spirit or you have not.

 

[cv5]

There is a mountain of doubt about that in my mind...

just sayin.....

I mean to say that the sum and total of all future telling per se has already been codified into the Bible.

There has been no inspired future-telling prophetic utterances after the early Church period, ending at John and Revelation.

 

[presidente]

Who was Paul addressing? Us today and as a world-wide body, or the Corinthians 2000 years ago and their issues at that time and predicated upon the nature of the church at that time and place? That's one of the problems in the way people erroneously look at scripture. Part of rightly dividing the word by understanding it's context and how it relates go us today.

Paul was writing to churches 2000 years ago when he wrote about salvation, elders in the church, church discipline, avoiding sin.

The big question for this issue is whether the Bible teaches us how the Holy Spirit works in the church.

I Corinthians 14 was written after most of those verses you mentioned, probably all but the passage in Revelation, a book which predicts two witnesses prophesying.

 

[presidente]

I mean to say that the sum and total of all future telling per se has already been codified into the Bible.

There has been no inspired future-telling prophetic utterances after the early Church period, ending at John and Revelation.

Where does the Bible teach that?

There are references to prophecy in church history. Some references to the second century come to mind. Irenaeus considered rejecting the gift of prophecy to be a characteristic of the heresies. He also wrote of some brethren being gifted with 'foreknowledge' as well as prophecy.

There was also a church whose members fled a city in Germany and missed the Russian rapes after WWII after there was a prophecy to do so. I heard of a church in the Malukas where the congregation fled in response to a prophecy... before the Muslim-planted bomb exploded. Some Armenians left before the Turkish massacre of the Armenians and settled in Los Angeles after a prophecy was given. What of Fredrick's drink about a monk with a pen, or John Huss' predicting that after they burned the gooose/huss, a hundred years later a swan would rise? Or the monk that predicted that one of the children of the mother of the king of the Latin kingdom of Jerusalem would have a king for a son?

 

[Inquisitor]

I mean to say that the sum and total of all future telling per se has already been codified into the Bible.

There has been no inspired future-telling prophetic utterances after the early Church period, ending at John and Revelation.

How would you know that?

Perhaps, it may have been an underground Christian movement.

No one can say there have not been futuristic prophetic utterance.

The real problem remains, that only believers will ever witness these things.

Do you have the faith to move mountains or a theology?

 

[cv5]

How would you know that?

Not how....why. We the Church do not need any more future-telling. We already have it all.

 

[DJT_47]

Paul was writing to churches 2000 years ago when he wrote about salvation, elders in the church, church discipline, avoiding sin.

The big question for this issue is whether the Bible teaches us how the Holy Spirit works in the church.

I Corinthians 14 was written after most of those verses you mentioned, probably all but the passage in Revelation, a book which predicts two witnesses prophesying.

The bible is clear about the manifestation of the Spirit. It was very necessary for the early church(es) but not necessary today. There is no need for the miraculous manifestations of the Spirit today, those listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10 which simulated a body by individuals in order to edify the body and to grow the church as well. We need no prophets, miracle workers, tongue speakers or interpreters of tongues etc today. We have the bible today where the gifts served tge purpose back then. And today, all you hear a out is tongues and not earthly tongues as evidenced in the bible, but incoherent babbling which serves NO purpose whatsoever.