Am I saved
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This is not always the case. At least it wasn't with me. Maybe some Christians are instantaneously changed in a way where they never have the old desires affect them.
I remember being confused after I first truly believed, confessed my sin, and need for Jesus, and baptized, because I still had lustful thoughts, and even succumbed to them from time to time.
Why was I still reacting in this way? Hadn't God made me new, with new desires and the complete death and destruction of my old sinful desires?
Yes, I had a hunger to read and study Scripture, and attend service, and I had a greater love for God and people, but those nagging sinful desires were still there.
It took yrs for me to understand what was happening. And it's this:
We STILL inhabit our sinful, dead flesh.
We STILL live in a fallen, sinful, broken world that thrusts temptations at us daily.
The Devil STILL tries to whisper all sorts of destructive things in our ears.
So we can CHOOSE to succumb to those desires that are STILL there, but NOW, we have the power to reject them!
Before we are born again we had no power to do this. But I think it's dangerous message to give baby Christians that they may not be saved if they don't immediately have a drastic change in their life.
Again, it's wonderful for those that do, but this has not been the case with most Christians I know.
Yes, I agree. But that's not the only scripture that delineates the requirements for salvation. There are more scriptures that add more requirements and when ALL pertinent scriptures regarding salvation are considered, you end up with belief & faith, confession of belief (as you indicated), repentance, and baptism.
Do you believe salvation is by grace and not works? Is water baptism a work on your part? Is spiritual baptism a work on your part?
Everything we do in our fleshly bodies requires action. Baptism and bring baptized requires action. It's also being obedient.
I agree. So, is salvation by grace or works? How do you understand Ephesians 2:8-9?
There should be a Change in you as soon as receive Christ in you -------if there is no change in you at the time that you receive Christ ---then you are not truly Born Again -----you have a veil over your eyes and Mind and Heart living in this world ----and that veil is removed the minute you are Born Again ----
There should definitely be a change in you immediately ------upon being Born Again -----
---this is the last line of this scripture below ------
The veil is removed only when a Person Is joined to Christ ------
Im not sure what you mean or intend by works, but Baptism is not a work of the flesh or law. Works has nothing to do with salvation. Belief and obedience which entails confession of belief, repentance, and baptism. It's then God's grace that saves but not before we do what's required of us as stated above.
If we have to meet certain conditions aren't we responsible for at least part of our own salvation?
There IS a change.There should be a Change in you as soon as receive Christ in you -------if there is no change in you at the time that you receive Christ ---then you are not truly Born Again -----you have a veil over your eyes and Mind and Heart living in this world ----and that veil is removed the minute you are Born Again ----
There should definitely be a change in you immediately ------upon being Born Again -----
---this is the last line of this scripture below ------
The veil is removed only when a Person Is joined to Christ ------
You ARE born again. THAT'S the change.
That doesn't negate a single thing I've said. Unless you are claiming to be a sinless perfection adherent.
Absolutely we are. We MUST obey. If we don't do our part, God won't do his
It's by us doing what is commanded that demonstrates our belief and faith. Abraham although justified by his faith on the OT, was obedient which demonstrated his belief, faith, and trust. God doesn't save everyone automatically, but those that believe and show their belief and faith by being obedient. Even Naaman in the OT finally acquiest and obeyed which then allowed his leprosy to be cleansed, although at first he was reluctant and complained, but finally changed his mind and did what he was told which resulted in his healing. Faith is demonstrated by obedience.
Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.. Romans 4:3. His works were the evidence that he truly believed, not the cause of his salvation.
Grace begets faith and yields obedience.
Just as I am, without one plea,
But that Thy blood was shed for me.
And that Thou bidst me come to Thee,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.
Faith begets grace not the other way around. The grace of God follows our having faith.
That's not what Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches...
For BY grace are we saved THROUGH faith...
Grace is the cause; faith is the means.
You have it backwards according to scripture.
No, not at all. Without belief a d faith there can be no grace of God. If the grace of God only was necessary, everyone would be saved without their doing anything including their believing a d having faith. So yes, by grace are we saved through faith. What comes first? Belief and faith, or grace? Grace is available but only after or through or by our faith. Salvation is available, but it's not automatically applicable to everyone but available to everyone and salvation is culminated by God's saving grace.
I feel like I'm running as fast as I can in quicksand. Ephesians 2:8-9 literally says salvation is by grace and that it is communicated to us through faith.
On what scriptural basis do you reverse the order?
It's not reversing the order nor does that scripture! Salvation is the e d result not the beginning followed faith. Belief and faith are the absolute first things a person must have which then leads ultimately to salvation. Salvation isn't first, it's last! After belief and faith, and confession of belief, and baptism, and finally, God's grace saves you.
Can you quote a verse that we are saved by faith through grace? Any verse that suggests salvation begins with faith which leads to grace?
Jesus died for my sins thousands of years before I was born, and came to believe.
Perhaps you do not consider Jesus' atoning sacrifice to be an act of God's grace?
He died for the sins of the whole world...
that by grace through faith in His shed righteous blood I may be reconciled to God and attain to life ever after.
God extended grace to me before I ever believed in Him.
His revealed written Word declares as a fact that He draws us with loving kindness.
If that is not grace, what is? .
