Paul was obviously talking about the spiritual birth, not the corporeal resurrection.
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Paul was obviously talking about the spiritual birth, not the corporeal resurrection.
okay. it's not called the second resurrection.
there's no such term at all.
so we can't use it without causing confusion....or added inserts and italics (like the OP had to do).
it ought to be comparing scripture with scripture.
so anyway....you've said only those in Christ are resurrected for the Millennium.
and 1,000 years later everyone else is.
no idea what the Millennium is for then...unless we have the bizarre notion of a reverting back to the temple System in this earth, Glorified Jesus ruling from Old Jerusalem (built by human hands)...with glorified Christians.
there's been the speculative proposal by some dispensationalists that Christians and Jesus hover over this cursed earth (above Old Jerusalem) dwelling in New Jerusalem, and rule over flesh men who....survived the tribulation and mark....for 1,000 years from there.
it has to be 1,000 years of peace however, since they have satan bound and all evil restrained for 1,000 years, until right at the end...when an apostasy and rebellion such as has never been seen in the pages of scripture takes place - after men have laid eyes on the Glorified Christ.
they refuse to go up to Jerusalem every year and so on....i suppose that would be earthly Jerusalem, since the heavenly one has to hover over the Old. how a billion (??) people fit into Old Jerusalem i do not know.
i wonder if anyone could produce the goods on that without ripping fulfilled prophecies out of the OT and dragging them to the future?
.....
2 Corinthians 5
Our Eternal Dwelling
1For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven.
this seems to have Paul saying he won't be walking around on a cursed earth again.
i don't know....i will look and see what Millennialists have say about it.
if the Lord and the saints are in New Jerusalem - above the Old....someone please tell me what the difference is between that and what Amillennialism says?
what is the corporeal resurrection?
the body.i agree..that's what he is talking about there.
the question - what happens to a born again person who dies?
anyways - is the new birth involved/related in any possible way in the first resurrection?
would you not have to be born again to take part in the first resurrection regardless of when it happened?
is the first resurrection involved in any way/related to the resurrection (the "second" resurrection)?
BECAUSE - what about people in the Millennium who get saved? don't they get be born again?
if they are born again and saved, what happens to them when they are saved? wouldn't they immediately join the glorified saints and reign with Christ? or wwould they have to wait for the [Second] Resurrection?
where is ANY of that written? anywhere?
Ephesians 2
1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4Butb God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus
why does he get so detailed?
why doesn't he just say something like - you're born again here (not in danger of the second death-type-thing), passed from death to life....but will lie eternally alive in your graves until the Second Advent; or soul sleep or something?
1 Thessalonians 4
The Return of the Lord
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Matthew 25
The Final Judgment
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,f you did it to me.’
41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
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here's the Second Coming...it says it right here....just like it described it 5 different ways previously, and one more time following:
Revelation 20
The Defeat of Satan
7And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heavenb and consumed them, 10and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21
The New Heaven and the New Earth
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God.c 4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
5And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
what is the corporeal resurrection?
i agree..that's NOT what he is talking about there.
correction:
left out NOT.
he is talking about the miraculous complex reality and promise that those who are made alive in Christ never die and are already and will be seated and raised with Him the heavenlies.
it's what it clearly says.
if we don't believe that, are we Christians at all?
the only alternative, if you make the first resurrection (mentioned one time only) strictly the resurrection of the body OF CHRISTIANS...you have to have them in soul sleep until the last day.
so what do we do about Pauls' detailed assertions about being seated with Christ already?
and that letter was to the whole church, including gentiles.
the very Mystery itself.
so...soul sleep?
But the point was that the phrase 'second coming' doesn't exist in scripture, just like the phrase 'second resurrection' doesn't exist.
so... what's that 1,000 years all about then?
“The priests will not receive any part of the land of Israel. I myself will be their only share.They will eat the grain offerings, sin offerings and guilt offerings. Everything in Israel that is set apart to me in a special way will belong to them.
(Ezekiel 44:28-29)
it still doesn't square right with me to completely 'spritualize' Ezekiel 40-48, saying it's just a metaphor of the present-day church.
But the body does die. And the body is resurrected. And if the body is resurrected, it has to be reunited with the spirit.
Or do you not believe in a bodily resurrection?
who are these dwelling on the earth in Rev 20?
the only answer would be - these are flesh people (unredeemed sinners; rebels and murderers) dwelling and co-mingling with the Glorified Christ and the glorified saints...on a still-cursed earth.
so it is the meek of the earth (unredeemed) who inherit it...but they then proceed to rebel in a way such as does not appear anywhere else in scripture?
...
Revelation 20
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
is a literal 1,000 years...with the glorified Christ and glorified church on earth VISIBLY...enough time for the meek of the earth to rebuild everything....procreate, then become these unbelievably wicked rebels, above?
1,000 years is not a very long time.
even more crucial is:
we are told SATAN IS ONLY RELEASED FOR A SHORT SPACE to deceive them and for this rebellion.
so they really don't even have 1,000 years to turn totally evil and demonic.
they have a short space.
where can i read about this?
the only answer would be - these are flesh people (unredeemed sinners; rebels and murderers) dwelling and co-mingling with the Glorified Christ and the glorified saints...on a still-cursed earth.
so it is the meek of the earth (unredeemed) who inherit it...but they then proceed to rebel in a way such as does not appear anywhere else in scripture?
...
Revelation 20
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
is a literal 1,000 years...with the glorified Christ and glorified church on earth VISIBLY...enough time for the meek of the earth to rebuild everything....procreate, then become these unbelievably wicked rebels, above?
1,000 years is not a very long time.
even more crucial is:
we are told SATAN IS ONLY RELEASED FOR A SHORT SPACE to deceive them and for this rebellion.
so they really don't even have 1,000 years to turn totally evil and demonic.
they have a short space.
where can i read about this?
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of course i believe in a bodily resurrection
it's the resurrection.
i have no idea how God performs it...no clue.
just that in the twinkling of an eye we shall all be changed and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
....
but wait ..... "And if the body is resurrected, it has to be reunited with the spirit. "
i agree.
so where is the spirit? in soul sleep in the ground?
there is a second death.
that means there is a first death (?) is that the death of the body?
there is a first resurrection.
that means there is a second (?) is that the resurrection of the body?
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we can't say Paul and his concern about teaching the Resurrection is past referred to believing anything about the first resurrection mentioned in Revelation, since he was already dead when it was given to John....and it is the only place it's ever mentioned.
that means there is a first death (?) is that the death of the body?
there is a first resurrection.
that means there is a second (?) is that the resurrection of the body?
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we can't say Paul and his concern about teaching the Resurrection is past referred to believing anything about the first resurrection mentioned in Revelation, since he was already dead when it was given to John....and it is the only place it's ever mentioned.
it's a figurative number.
it's right now.
from the first Advent to the Last Day.
if you're going to take (as the OP does) a passage like this:
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
are you going to be consistent with it?
i.e.: a literal 1,000 years to us is one (1) literal day with God?
so creation took 6000 years?
but wait....Peter said: "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years"....so why can't we then say the Millennium is only ONE DAY (24 hours) LONG?
well my friend, i want absolutely nothing to do with any doctrine that teaches there will be future animal sacrifices for sin.
i urge you to look this over
:Leviticus: Seedbed of NT Theology
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/57882-leviticus-seedbed-nt-theology.html < click
the over-riding common denominator in Dispensational teaching is that the church and israel are distinct (they originally said throughout eternity!)
they foundation of it is - God did not give Israel everything He promised.
no matter how reformed (adapted) dispensationalism is, that is the bottom line.
so the Millennium (supposedly) is to define that distinction even more. going against everything the NT says, Scofield et al proposed that Israel (jews we can say i guess) is the crowning glory of God's Plan, and all of this since Christ's First Coming was a side act or literally an afterthought....since what God REALLY intended (an on the spot physical and political Kingdom for Israel in ancient Rome) was thwarted by SOME jews' rejection of Jesus as King.
so, they go on to assert that THE KINGDOM WAS POSTPONED.
..
this is total heresy.
God DID KEEP HIS PROMISES to Israel. all of them.
every last one...and the promise is Jesus Christ and eternal life.
...
you should have noticed by now a glaring issue with Dispensationalism.
it is Dual Covenant theology - that God is currently juggling and honoring BOTH Covenants, and that Jews are chosen by RACE or birth and are owed something on that ground alone.
if you don't think it is this serious...look how far we are apparently willing to go to accomodate this false teaching; ANIMAL SACRIFICES FOR SIN IN A FUTURE TEMPLE.
i'll get some bits from the OP....just think about the implications.
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So, anyway................we know how scripture speaks of "a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day" to God, and I'm wondering..............does anyone apply this to the 1,000 year reign? If not, why not?
Way I see it, there's two possibilities...........
ONE DAY, albeit a really, really long day...............
or
Six Thousand Years..................
If we are to believe Scripture. Right?
And about this new earth thing.............What in heavens name are we gonna do for ALL ETERNITY if the new earth is as the Garden of Eden in the beginning? Eternity is a really long time.............we gotta do something don't we? Just sit around saying "my, my, what a beautiful garden......?"
And what about "In My Father's house are many mansions.........?" Shoot, do I not get my mansion? (bet that crown of jewels thing won't come true either huh?)
Way I see it, there's two possibilities...........
ONE DAY, albeit a really, really long day...............
or
Six Thousand Years..................
If we are to believe Scripture. Right?
And about this new earth thing.............What in heavens name are we gonna do for ALL ETERNITY if the new earth is as the Garden of Eden in the beginning? Eternity is a really long time.............we gotta do something don't we? Just sit around saying "my, my, what a beautiful garden......?"
And what about "In My Father's house are many mansions.........?" Shoot, do I not get my mansion? (bet that crown of jewels thing won't come true either huh?)
what irony....
dispensationalists...who declare there has to be a Millennium, where Israel rules with Jesus (?) (the gentile christians are either subjugated or in the air somewhere forever) say the Dominionist idea of the church defeating all enemies is "not taught anywhere" in scripture....but it's "popular" because it appeals to the flesh!!!....they got da King and da church ruling and smashing ppl over slaughtered animals in....oh...w.e.
meanwhile, they just openly sneer at the Scriptures which unequivocally proclaim Christ as King and Victor NOW - ruling RIGHT NOW in the midst of His enemies.
a-a-a-a-a-anyways
ugh.
what needs to be said?
both amillennialists and millennialists apply "a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day" to God" to the thousand years of Rev 20.
because of the term a thousand.
the difference is dispensationalists say one day with God IS exactly (literally) 1,000 years....but apparently not vice versa, because that could mean the Millennium could really be 24 hours long.
it's a figurative term.
like h'obviously the Israelites knew what it meant - Peter used it
how was he using it?
2 Peter 3
7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
he's just saying God's time is not our time.
trust Him regarding the times.
nothing more.
Psalm 90
3You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." 4For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. 5You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.
For a thousand years in Your sight Are like:
- yesterday when it passes by
- Or as a watch in the night
- grass which sprouts anew
a thousand years in God's sight can also:
[be] swept away like a flood
fall asleep
so why can't a thousand years be like one day?
3You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." 4For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. 5You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.
For a thousand years in Your sight Are like:
- yesterday when it passes by
- Or as a watch in the night
- grass which sprouts anew
a thousand years in God's sight can also:
[be] swept away like a flood
fall asleep
so why can't a thousand years be like one day?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Because it is prophesy.
If we symbolize time in prophesy, we can make it mean anything. And prophesy becomes useless in what it was intended to do. Which is to prove God is the one true God. No one else can prophesy time and events happening in that time, And it literally come true.
If God did not mean 1000 years. But only one day. then why even say it. Not to mention. What god is a God who rules the earth for one day? It makes no sense.