Amillennial theology is in error - (no literal thousand year reign)

[zone]

Hi Zone,

I was reading this question and would like to give what I thought while I was reading.......

What is the purpose of the Millennium?

And here is what I was thinking:

In the beginning, God "lord" over the world (orderly arrangement (governance)).

Then men were given that authority of rule.

Then Satan, who is the principality of the air, has been given his chance (when he was thrown out of Heaven).
.
.
.

My questionings are my personal conclusion and not aimed at finding fault:

If these three had/has authority, why wouldn't Christ be given that same opportunity to present His rule, if He is the One who shall return us to the lost Paradise (before the fall)?

If it is said that God will set His Kingdom here upon Earth, then will not the victorious King, who will have blood upon His rope from the Winepress, have to come and cleanse the Earth of the rebellion and that unholy thing before God will set His throne upon it?

If Christ presents Himself without giving an opportunity for the world to choose Him as their King, then wouldn't those subjects consider Him no better than a dictator who forced His rule against their WILL?

--Chris

hi Chris.
but He already came.

the world has it's chance now.
the church's role is to present the Gospel, whereby God transfers lost souls, now redeemed into the kingdom of His Dear Son.

it is the Gospel that is the power unto salvation - for all who believe (faith).
the Bible says men know there is a God - the Bible doesn't attempt to prove the existence of God - it's assumed He is Who He is.

i believe men also know Jesus Christ is Lord.

if the Millennium (after the Second Coming) is a "chance" for people to SEE Jesus as King in His Glory - then decide....does that involve the reincarnation (of some sort) of all who died previously who appeared to reject Him because they didn't have "proof"?

....

my question is....who does the Bible say survives the Second Coming and Judgment to even go on into a flesh existence?

 

[zone]

Hi Zone,

I was reading this question and would like to give what I thought while I was reading.......

What is the purpose of the Millennium?

And here is what I was thinking:

In the beginning, God "lord" over the world (orderly arrangement (governance)).

Then men were given that authority of rule.

Then Satan, who is the principality of the air, has been given his chance (when he was thrown out of Heaven).
.
.
.

My questionings are my personal conclusion and not aimed at finding fault:

If these three had/has authority, why wouldn't Christ be given that same opportunity to present His rule, if He is the One who shall return us to the lost Paradise (before the fall)?

If it is said that God will set His Kingdom here upon Earth, then will not the victorious King, who will have blood upon His rope from the Winepress, have to come and cleanse the Earth of the rebellion and that unholy thing before God will set His throne upon it?

If Christ presents Himself without giving an opportunity for the world to choose Him as their King, then wouldn't those subjects consider Him no better than a dictator who forced His rule against their WILL?

--Chris

sorry Chris...another thought....(possible derailment)..prolly just food for thought.
what do we do about this?

Acts 13
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Ephesians 1
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will

Romans 8
28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

oops...definite derailment

 

[zone]

Hebrews 9
26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

...

if this is true....there can't be sinners who need saving (after he comes...like 999 years after) - certainly not animal sacrifices.

 

[cfultz3]

if the Millennium (after the Second Coming) is a "chance" for people to SEE Jesus as King in His Glory - then decide....does that involve the reincarnation (of some sort) of all who died previously who appeared to reject Him because they didn't have "proof"?

I would think that after Christ came to defeat the one who wars against His Kingdom, that He would present His rule not as a manner of giving people prove of who He is, but as an opportunity to be given a choice of being ruled (lead upon a path) by God or that usurper.

Now, as to there being a reincarnation (resurrection) of all who has ever lived being present during Christ's Earthly reign, it is said that those who did not worship the beast.....are those of the first resurrection and would rule with Him (Rev 20:2-7). Later on it mentions another resurrection for judgment (apparently, all people (v15)) (Rev 20:10-15). From my understanding, I would think that those who did not worship (etc) Satan during his reign (earthly kingdom), would be the only ones who would be present during Christ's reign.

....

my question is....who does the Bible say survives the Second Coming and Judgment to even go on into a flesh existence?

My believe is that when He does come the second time, He will not return to Heaven in order to had came back a third time, seeing that His "capital", would have already been set up. And if His purpose is to return governance back to God, then the war needs to be brought to the enemy so that He could have cleansed the rebellion and to present all things to God as they were before.

I think they who will survive the second coming will be those on His right hand during that judgment after that thousand years.

--Chris

 

[cfultz3]

sorry Chris...another thought....(possible derailment)..prolly just food for thought.
what do we do about this?

Acts 13
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Ephesians 1
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will

Romans 8
28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

oops...definite derailment

I am assuming that you are saying by those verses that He rules now, and will base my reply accordingly....(correct me if wrong).

If the Kingdom from the Heavens (Greek rendering of Mathew) is the same as the Millennium Kingdom, then we are about a thousand years past due for our Lords return.

From my understanding, I know He is now the King of kings, but it also says that He sets next to God until His enemies are His footstool. But then again, it also says that He is the One who shall come as Judge. If this is true, I purpose that the Kingdom from the Heavens (the Kingdom of/from Heaven) is not the same Kingdom being spoken about when it speaks of Him coming and setting up His earthly Kingdom.

P.S. did we just do the unthinkable and derailed a thread (nooooooot )

--Chris

 

[cfultz3]

Hebrews 9
26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

...

if this is true....there can't be sinners who need saving (after he comes...like 999 years after) - certainly not animal sacrifices.

May I please point out those being spoken about: to those who eagerly await Him.

 

[zone]

I would think that after Christ came to defeat the one who wars against His Kingdom, that He would present His rule not as a manner of giving people prove of who He is, but as an opportunity to be given a choice of being ruled (lead upon a path) by God or that usurper.

Now, as to there being a reincarnation (resurrection) of all who has ever lived being present during Christ's Earthly reign, it is said that those who did not worship the beast.....are those of the first resurrection and would rule with Him (Rev 20:2-7). Later on it mentions another resurrection for judgment (apparently, all people (v15)) (Rev 20:10-15). From my understanding, I would think that those who did not worship (etc) Satan during his reign (earthly kingdom), would be the only ones who would be present during Christ's reign.

but who are they reigning over then?
it's pretty clear those who don't worship the beast (if we are going to make this an ongoing or future event) are servants of the Lord sealed in their foreheads.

and everyone else does worship the beast.
it says all who worshipped the beast are thrown into the lake of fire.
so don't know who those middle ground not saved but spared millennial ppl are.

My believe is that when He does come the second time, He will not return to Heaven in order to had came back a third time, seeing that His "capital", would have already been set up. And if His purpose is to return governance back to God, then the war needs to be brought to the enemy so that He could have cleansed the rebellion and to present all things to God as they were before.

but what about this?
when does this happen?
who survives this? (is it figurative)?

2 Peter 3
New International Version
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

New Living Translation
But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment.

English Standard Version
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

New American Standard Bible
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

I think they who will survive the second coming will be those on His right hand during that judgment after that thousand years.

--Chris

My believe is that when He does come the second time, He will not return to Heaven in order to had came back a third time, seeing that His "capital", would have already been set up. And if His purpose is to return governance back to God, then the war needs to be brought to the enemy so that He could have cleansed the rebellion and to present all things to God as they were before.

hmmm......okay.
i guess we would want to see those passages.
k.....got to go.
ttyl

 

[zone]

May I please point out those being spoken about: to those who eagerly await Him.

okay....one last question (for anyone).
maybe we could post what we believe are Second Advent passages.
then we can see how many resurrections; judgments; great battles etc there are...and what happens to ppl after that.

ok....gone

 

[cfultz3]

but who are they reigning over then?

Those the devil could not deceive for a thousand years (v3). Will there be sinners during that time? I suppose there would be, seeing that when the devil is released, he will go around deceiving in order to have humans fight a battle against the saints and the Holy City.

it's pretty clear those who don't worship the beast (if we are going to make this an ongoing or future event) are servants of the Lord sealed in their foreheads.

and everyone else does worship the beast.
it says all who worshipped the beast are thrown into the lake of fire.
so don't know who those middle ground not saved but spared millennial ppl are.

Thought provoking....

So, who are these "middle ground" people? I would think people who are born during that thousand years.

but what about this?
when does this happen?
who survives this? (is it figurative)?

2 Peter 3
New International Version
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
.
.
.

v8...to the Lord, a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day....And in/during which day, the old shall pass away and the new shall be brought about.

hmmm......okay.
i guess we would want to see those passages.
k.....got to go.
ttyl

My believe is that when He does come the second time, He will not return to Heaven in order to had came back a third time, seeing that His "capital", would have already been set up.

Rev 21:1-2 immediately tells us after the final Judgment of Rev 20 that the new Heaven and Earth will come down from God. If this is the case, then I am lead to believe then that it would serve no purpose for Christ to return, seeing that verse 3 tells us that God is now among the humans on Earth.

As per saying "His capital", I was speaking the place where the saints and the Holy City is located. The same place where God and the Son will rule.
​

And if His purpose is to return governance back to God, then the war needs to be brought to the enemy so that He could have cleansed the rebellion and to present all things to God as they were before.

If the beast shall rule on Earth, then Christ will have to come here to defeat him, seeing that Satan no longer has access to the Kingdom he and those other angels were thrown out of during their fail attempt.

If it says that the new Jerusalem is coming down from Heaven from God in v2, then verse 1 is telling us that Jesus indeed cleansed God's creation of the rebellion and is then presentable to God who cannot look upon sin (and when all things have been returned, He will then turn over all things back to the One who gave it to Him).
​

 

[cfultz3]

okay....one last question (for anyone).
maybe we could post what we believe are Second Advent passages.
then we can see how many resurrections; judgments; great battles etc there are...and what happens to ppl after that.

ok....gone

Goodnight and hope you sleep well, Zone.

 

[vic1980]

Those the devil could not deceive for a thousand years (v3). Will there be sinners during that time? I suppose there would be, seeing that when the devil is released, he will go around deceiving in order to have humans fight a battle against the saints and the Holy City.

If it says that the new Jerusalem is coming down from Heaven from God in v2, then verse 1 is telling us that Jesus indeed cleansed God's creation of the rebellion and is then presentable to God who cannot look upon sin (and when all things have been returned, He will then turn over all things back to the One who gave it to Him).

I agree with this

God bless

 

[vic1980]

There is a literal thousand year period. is not revelation Jesus very own words?

Don't let these worldy teachers teach you something that is not from God Almighty . stay with what you have thats is written in many languages inspired by God Almighty and not man.

God bless.

2 timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timoteo 3:16 Toda Escritura es inspirada por Dios y útil para enseñar, para reprender, para corregir, para instruir en justicia

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever

La derrota de Satanás

7 Cuando los mil años se cumplan, Satanás será soltado de su prisión, 8 y saldrá a engañar a las naciones que están en los cuatro extremos de la tierra, a Gog y a Magog, a fin de reunirlas para la batalla; el número de ellas es como la arena del mar. 9 Y subieron sobre la anchura de la tierra, rodearon el campamento de los santos y la ciudad amada. Pero descendió fuego del cielo y los devoró. 10 Y el diablo que los engañaba fue arrojado al lago de fuego y azufre, donde también están la bestia y el falso profeta; y serán atormentados día y noche por los siglos de los siglos.

God bless and trust the Holyspirit that teaches you all truth that is Jesus Christ Living in you.

 

[Yahshua]

sorry...i got distracted looking at supermen....um..i mean uh - looking for my favorite super Batman chara.....tsk...

lol!

...

yes the death of Adam is interesting, but certainly doesn't establish any principle.
there are so many places the Lord says: in that day; in the day; on that day; that day I; and so on....it should be easy to see if he meant a thousand years.

or, like the psalmists using a thousand this and thats.
k....more witnesses would be good.

particularly concerning the thousand years of Rev 20 - need to see that.
sooner or later.

A case has to be built, a little here; a little there...but I'll switch up and give the full bible study version and summarize through, and if any gaps appear you can point them out and I'll try to fill them in.

Principle: "To God, 1000 of man's years = 1 day"​

I propose that the Plan of God is summed up in Creation week (Genesis Ch 1). Creation week indeed DID occur as recorded in scripture, but it was also a prophecy of the overall plan of God.

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 550, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Day 1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Day 2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Day 3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Day 4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Day 5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Day 6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Day 7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD](Gen 1:3-5)
…God saw that the light WAS good, and he separated light from darkness …the first Day.[/TD]
[TD](Gen 1:6-8)
God made the firmament, divided waters from waters …Heaven [Sky]
…the second day[/TD]
[TD] (Gen 1:11-13)
Seed-bearing plants and trees … bear fruit with …various kinds.
…the third day[/TD]
[TD](Gen 1:14-19)
… And God made two great lights; greater light [sun] to rule day, [moon & stars also]
…the fourth day[/TD]
[TD](Gen 1:20-23)
… Let the water teem with living creatures… fill the waters in the seas & fowls of air
…the fifth day[/TD]
[TD](Gen 1:24-31)
…cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth…[also] Let’s make man in our image
…the sixth day[/TD]
[TD](Gen 2:1-2) …heavens, earth and all hosts were finished.
God finished his work and then he rested on the seventh day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Day 1: Light is separated from darkness.

Day 2: Water is divided from water.

Day 3: Seeds and Trees of various fruit are created & multiply.

Day 4 : The Sun, Moon & Stars are created to Rule from heavens.

Day 5: Creatures born of Sea, and then Fouls of the Air are made.

Day 6: Beasts of the Earth, and then Mankind in God's Image, are made.

Day 7: God finishes his creative work, blesses this day as HOLY, and rests.

So of course, the 7th day of the week is the Sabbath...​

Through the prophet Ezekiel God said, “Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I Yah made them holy.” (Ezekiel 20:12)

And God said, “Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am Yah your God.”(Ezekiel 20:20)

And through Isaiah he said, “If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD'S holy day [i.e. “The holy Day of the LORD”] honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,…”(Isaiah 58:13)

So this scripture proves that the Sabbath day IS "The Day of The Lord".​

START: Now what I was leading up to in my previous post was the following outline that proves the 7th 1000 years of mankind IS "The Day of The Lord", and is consequently the Millennium/Thousand year reign.



In Day 1: Light is separated from darkness.
In Years 1-1000 of Man: Sinful Man is separated from God

Proof: Adam sins and dies in year 930, within the 1st 1000 years of man. He is also separated from god's garden.

So the 1st day was fulfilled in the 1st millennium of man.​

In Day 2: Water is separated from water.
In Years 1001-2000 of Man: After the flood, water once again separates from water to give Noah dry ground

Proof: Noah is born in year 1049 from Adam (Gen 5)...when he was 600 it was year 1648 and this was the time of the flood (Gen 6). It rained for 40 days/nights, and after 150 days water divided from water again to reveal dry ground; within the 2nd 1000 years of man.

So the 2nd day was fulfilled in the 2nd millennium of man.​

In Day 3: Seeds and Trees of various fruit are created & multiply.
In Years 2001-3000 of Man: Abraham is made a father of many nations; given promised seed

Proof: Genesis 17:5-6 “…your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful.”

Abram is born year 1992 from Adam (Gen 9-11), but is reborn "Abraham" year 2090 from Adam (approx 98 yrs later) and is given Isaac (promised SEED). He also had sons Ishmael, Medan and Midian which became nations. Isaac had twins (Jacob & Esau) who both had 12 sons. A total of 900 years then passes in scripture from Jacob's labors to Joseph slavery to Israel in Egypt to wilderness wandering, through to the time of the Judges (year 2990). All of this happened within the 3rd 1000 years of man.

In scripture, men are called "trees" and sons are called "branches".

So the 3rd day was fulfilled in the 3rd millennium of man.​

In Day 4 : The Sun, Moon & Stars are created to rule from the heavens.
In Years 3001-4000 of Man: Prophets & Kings of Israel reign during time of rebellion (darkness), then Christ (the light) is born.

Proof: "First the evening [darkness with moons & stars], then the morning (with the sun) is the ___ day" (Genesis)...and this is the order of these "rulers" are introduced.

Moon = The prophets, reflecting the light of God's word (Psalm 119:104-105)
Stars = Angels/Princes & Kings (Psalm 148:2-3; Daniel 10:13)

Both of these elements are introduced after the time of the Judges, when King Saul first appears. Construction of Solomon's temple begins 480 years after the exodus (which was 10 years after he was crowned). In this time Saul, Ish-Bosheth (son of Saul) and David reigned for a combined 91 years before Solomon. Then the kingdom is split, which resulted in the many kings and prophets until Israel & Judah's exile...so we are roughly between the years 3013-3593 from Adam.

- In year 3544 from Adam (or 457 BC) Persian King Artaxerxes "commands" to rebuild Jerusalem for 49 years (7 sevens; Daniel 9:25).

- In year 3593 from Adam (or 408 BC) Ezra & Nehemiah begin rebuilding the streets of Judah for 434 years (62 sevens; Daniel 9:25; Nehemiah 2:8-17; 4:17).

- In year 4028 from Adam (or 27-28 AD/CE) the Messiah is *cut off* (AFTER 62 sevens; Daniel 9:26). He was 30 years old...this makes his birth in year 3998 from Adam (or 3 BC); born just before the end of the 4th 1000 years of man. I can go into more scriptural detail with this proof if required.

Sun = Christ.

John 9:5, “While I am in the world, I am the light of the world” [also read John 3:19; 8:12; 12:35]. So Christ is The Great Light! We also know that he had all authority.

Malachi 4:2, “But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings…” fulfilled in Matthew 9:20-22.

In the middle of the last seven (last 7 years) Christ sentences the temple to destruction for rejecting him and causes all animal sacrifices to end (wars are also determined in the land until the end; Daniel 9:27). All of this happened within the 4th 1000 years of man.

So the 4th day was fulfilled in the 4th millennium of man.​

>>>The Great Tribulation begins<<<

- Desolation of Jerusalem & Punishment of people (Daniel 9:26-27; Matthew 24:15-16)

- Saints are persecuted (Daniel 7:25; Matthew 24)

- Christ in heaven receives the title deed of earth and begins loosing the seals. (Daniel 7:13-14; Revelation 5:1-11:19)

- Satan is cast to earth and establishes his "The Kingdom of Darkness" (since the light left; Revelation 12-13)

- The body of Christ suffers for the next 2000 years (Zechariah 13:8) or 40 Jubilees, like the trial of Israel in the desert was 40 years (Numbers 32:13), and the trial of Christ was 40 days (Matthew 4).

>>>The following 2 days are within this time frame<<<




In Day 5: Creatures of Sea, and then Fouls of the Air are made.
In Years 4001-5000 of Man: Revelation 13's Beast of the Sea is born approx. 1-1000 AD (...we no longer follow God's time at this point)

Proof 1: It has been approx 2000 years since Christ walked the earth. This is not disputed. So if God has been fulfilling his plan of Creation Week - in each millennium - we must conclude he has continued the same pattern.

Proof 2: The Papacy (The Seat of The Bishop of Rome) is Born 67 AD (or approx. year 4067 from Adam).

- In 312 AD (or approx 4312 from Adam), Rome adopts Christianity as official religion. The Church then changes the 10 commandments, adopts pagan customs, outlaws Sabbath-keeping on pain of death, develops new doctrines, purges everything Hebrew out of the faith = "Mystery Babylon, the Mother of Harlots" (God's unfaithful), who starts riding this beast.

- In 533 AD, Emperor Justinian's Decree made The Papacy Supreme Head of all churches

- In 538 AD (or 4538 from Adam), The Papacy is given Supreme Authority in matters of faith (6th head of the beast; Rev 13:3-7; Little horn of Daniel 7:8). The "Holy" Roman Empire (a "name of blasphemy") persecutes the saints (as heretics) for 42 prophetic months...exactly 1,260 years from 538 AD to 1798 AD (Rev 13:5) before being removed by Napoleon. The 6th head cut off...but healed later Lateran Concordat of 1929 - Papal Wound Healed!

- From The Catholic Church "Mother" was born daughter harlots like Islam and other religions, including "movements" from The Renaissance, like Secularism/Humanism (due to corruption of the true gospel & severe persecution lay people began denying there was even being a God and reasoned that it was all a lie fabricated to control the masses).

I can go into more scriptural detail with this proof if required. The beasts of the sea were commanded in Genesis to multiply, and so this beast has since it was born. All of this happened within the 5th 1000 years of man.

So the 5th day was fulfilled in the 5th millennium of man.​

In Day 6: Beasts of the Earth are made.
In Years 4001-5000 of Man: Revelation 13's Beast of the Earth is born approx. 1001-2000 AD (give or take a few dozen years because we don't follow God's calendar anymore).

Proof 1: It has been approx 2000 years since Christ walked the earth. This is not disputed. So if God has been fulfilling his plan of Creation Week - in each millennium - we must conclude he has continued the same pattern.

Proof 2: Matching Revelation 13:11-18...

• Has 2 Horns (Rev 13:11) = 2 Extremities of its power
• Looks like a lamb = It appears righteous and pure
• Speaks like a dragon = Speaks completely contrary to The Scriptures
• Exercises all power of the Beast of the Sea = Assumes the old empire's former leadership authority
• Causes all people on earth to worship the Beast = Causes everyone to love the old empire; melting pot
• Makes fire come down from heaven = Created fire (power) that can rain down from the sky; atomic bomb.
• Deceives those on earth to make an image of the beast = Convinces many to copy/imitate their image, and by extension the old empire's
• Power to give life to the image of the beast = Developed the ability to animate/move the image/picture to spread ideals of the old empire: Democracy (of the people), Not Theocracy (of God)
• That the image should both speak = Later developed the sound for its "Motion Pictures" to spread its message (indoctrinate?)
• Cause many who don't worship the image should be killed = Propagandizes to make enemies of those who don't conform to the idea (of Democracy?) [Iraq; Libya; Syria; Iran?]
• Causes all to receive a mark in hand or forehead in order to buy & sell = Forces world to be bound to (and work for) a global financial system whether they believe in it or not
• Here is wisdom; the number of a man; 666 = The global financial/banking system was created by one family who's name was changed to represent a "Red Hexagram" (6 sides; 6 points; 6 triangles); "Red Shield" (German. Rothschild).

The United States of America is the only beast (i.e. kingdom) that has perfectly matched all of these characteristics...even being "born" in 1776 AD (or approx 4776 from Adam) within this 6th millennium.

The beasts of the earth were commanded in Genesis to multiply, and this beast has indeed multiplied nation by nation in it's short 238 year lifespan. And all of this has happened within THIS 6th 1000 years of man...but that's not all that was made on the 6th day.




In Day 6: Man in God's Image is made.
In Years 4001-5000 of Man: True Israel is born. The "Elijah" work that corrects the path; The Great Multitude & 144,000 first fruits (approx 1001 AD -2000 AD give or take a few dozen years because we don't follow God's calendar anymore).

This is the time frame we're currently in. Most of us were born after the most severe trials of the Great Tribulation (Dark Ages, The Inquisition, Crusades, 2 World Wars, etc..), but we were also born from within Mystery Babylon (i.e. we are "Zerubabbel" = "seed of Babylon" commissioned to finish the house of God; Zech 4). So the 7th day (Sabbath day) is upon us NOW.

So the 6th day IS just about finished in this millennium.​

CONCLUSION: So I think by showing the fulfillment of each of the days of Creation Week, I've shown that indeed that 2 Peter 3:8 and Psalm 90:4 establishes "1000 years = 1 day" as a principle to follow, and that "The Day of The Lord" is The Sabbath and the next 1000 years of man to follow. Accordingly, we can take note of the following verses to understand what happens during that millennium.



In Day 7: God finishes his creative work, blesses this day as HOLY, and rests.
In Years 5001-6000 of Man: The Day of The Lord; The 1000 year reign of the saints, starting with the 1st Resurrection.

Zechariah 13:9

And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined [the first 2 parts died during the first 2000 years after Christ left], And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' And they will say, 'Yah is my God.'

This passage ties to Malachi 3:2 in relation to the last 2000 years of the body of Christ. Truly Christians have died for 2000 years but this third part (Christians of the next 1000 years) will be purified and will live.

Hosea 6:1-2

"Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us [Punishment], but He will heal us; He has wounded us [Punishment], but He will bandage us. "He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day, That we may live before Him."

John 6:45

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Notice that Hosea and John both use the same language...both are speaking about the last day of the week; the Sabbath; The Day of the Lord. And if God has been fulfilling creation week during each millennium of man, this means the 7th millennium is uniquely marked by the resurrection of the righteous of God.

Zechariah 3:9

For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

This stone is a repeat prophecy of the uncut stone from Daniel 2:45 that smashes the Nebuchadnezzar statue at its feet. The reign of Christ with his saints will correct the practices of the nations that "remain" (Daniel 7:12) and teach them the truth about God. This will take 1000 years. Death still exists at this point.

Zechariah 14:16

Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacle. 17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them

This passage proves two things: 1) there will be other nations that still exist during the reign of the Lord (Daniel 7:12), and 2) when the Lord reigns **all MUST celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles** or there will NOT be any rain for that nation...this hasn't happened yet (because the world at large doesn't even know about this feast, let alone celebrate it), so the Lord is not currently reigning *on earth* (though he now reigns in heaven).

So the 7th day will be fulfilled in the 7th millennium of man.
(Which is now at the door)​

 

[zone]

Those the devil could not deceive for a thousand years (v3). Will there be sinners during that time? I suppose there would be, seeing that when the devil is released, he will go around deceiving in order to have humans fight a battle against the saints and the Holy City.



Thought provoking....

So, who are these "middle ground" people? I would think people who are born during that thousand years.



v8...to the Lord, a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day....And in/during which day, the old shall pass away and the new shall be brought about.



My believe is that when He does come the second time, He will not return to Heaven in order to had came back a third time, seeing that His "capital", would have already been set up.

Rev 21:1-2 immediately tells us after the final Judgment of Rev 20 that the new Heaven and Earth will come down from God. If this is the case, then I am lead to believe then that it would serve no purpose for Christ to return, seeing that verse 3 tells us that God is now among the humans on Earth.

As per saying "His capital", I was speaking the place where the saints and the Holy City is located. The same place where God and the Son will rule.
​

And if His purpose is to return governance back to God, then the war needs to be brought to the enemy so that He could have cleansed the rebellion and to present all things to God as they were before.

If the beast shall rule on Earth, then Christ will have to come here to defeat him, seeing that Satan no longer has access to the Kingdom he and those other angels were thrown out of during their fail attempt.

If it says that the new Jerusalem is coming down from Heaven from God in v2, then verse 1 is telling us that Jesus indeed cleansed God's creation of the rebellion and is then presentable to God who cannot look upon sin (and when all things have been returned, He will then turn over all things back to the One who gave it to Him).
​

okay....these are all your own thoughts about how it would be...and that's fine.

but - there is absolutely no reason why the scenario you posited can not fall within the time before the Second Coming.

thanks for a thoughtful post.
but we must use the scriptures to back up what we are saying.

for example - can you find any place in the New Testament where we are told this current Jerusalem is temporarily rebuilt/restored for the Glorified Christ to reign from?

did Jesus ever say anywhere that He planned to rule on this earth? - if He did, where is it?

if the Millennium is true, it is a very important time.
the Bible MUST have information on it.

is there a Temple for Jesus? - this goes against what He said.
are there sacrifices of animals or things other than "the praise of our lips" and the presentation of our bodies/selves? - where does it say that?

 

[zone]

Those the devil could not deceive for a thousand years (v3). Will there be sinners during that time? I suppose there would be, seeing that when the devil is released, he will go around deceiving in order to have humans fight a battle against the saints and the Holy City.

Thought provoking....

So, who are these "middle ground" people? I would think people who are born during that thousand years.

chris......we're discussing this based on a futurist position a.t.m. i assume...meaning it has yet to happen and involves the entire world.

k....so...let's see if there is anyone who can possibly survive (unredeemed flesh people) and go into a Millennium. if i am missing any passages, lemme know.

Revelation 14
9And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

^ looks like the lake of fire....so that says anyone "worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand" goes into the lake of fire.

are you saying any of these people go into the Millennium....only to be assured they are going into the lake of fire anyway?
really, it says the whole world worships the beast - EXCEPT the sealed servants...because they were deceived.
there are all these things written BEFORE Chapter 20 - which supposedly describes a Millennium (after these things?)

8The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire. 9They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursedb the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.

10The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in anguish 11and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds.

Revelation 17
And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

etc.....

then:

Revelation 19
17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, 18to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave,e both small and great.”

19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. 20And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presencef had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

k.....the beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire.

in chapter 19.

has the 1,000 years started yet? (remember everything that came before this chapter)

AND - HERE THAT'S GATHERING FOR BATTLE....in 19....not chapter 20.

are there 2 great battles?

or does revelation tell the same story different ways?

 

[zone]

There is a literal thousand year period. is not revelation Jesus very own words?

Don't let these worldy teachers teach you something that is not from God Almighty . stay with what you have thats is written in many languages inspired by God Almighty and not man.

God bless.

2 timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timoteo 3:16 Toda Escritura es inspirada por Dios y útil para enseñar, para reprender, para corregir, para instruir en justicia

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever

La derrota de Satanás

7 Cuando los mil años se cumplan, Satanás será soltado de su prisión, 8 y saldrá a engañar a las naciones que están en los cuatro extremos de la tierra, a Gog y a Magog, a fin de reunirlas para la batalla; el número de ellas es como la arena del mar. 9 Y subieron sobre la anchura de la tierra, rodearon el campamento de los santos y la ciudad amada. Pero descendió fuego del cielo y los devoró. 10 Y el diablo que los engañaba fue arrojado al lago de fuego y azufre, donde también están la bestia y el falso profeta; y serán atormentados día y noche por los siglos de los siglos.

God bless and trust the Holyspirit that teaches you all truth that is Jesus Christ Living in you.

and don't let any worldly teachers tell you satan is not

a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, with a crown on each of his seven heads

and don't let any worldly teachers tell you satan does not have

a tail which sweeps away a third of the stars of heaven and throws them to the earth.

and don't let any worldly teachers tell you satan is not

a dragon standing before a woman who will be about to give birth

and don't let any worldly teachers tell you satan will not be attempting to

eat her child.




you been warned.


be watching for a great red dragon lurking around some pregnant woman, you'll recognize this particular red dragon.....because he has seven heads with crowns on all those heads, and he is hungry and wants to eat the baby.

good luck seeing that......dunno: maybe in CHINA? DRAGON? CHINA? RED? MAYBE RUSSIA....RED....oh i don't know.
i just know it says EXACTLY THAT.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well we agree
so Peters passage does not create a one-day-equals-one-thousand-years principle.

Correct

right. he is.
but he is using symbolic language to do it.
throughout.

agree

he actually goes back to the birth of Christ (and through OT imagery even further back in some places)...ex: Ezekiel.

Yes he is, Just Like daniel did in his book with his prophesies concerning 4 beasts. and other events which would take place by those 4 beasts.

yes...thats right.
does God use any symbolic language in those prophecies...well...ya.
we could post them and compare.

Yeah we could. We could also post all the messianic prophesies and the prophesies of the suffering servant. And see How Jesus fulfilled ALL the servant prophesies. But he did not fulfill the messianic prophesies. And if you did not know any better (like I today looking back) NO ONE would have interpreted as being the same person. (which was all planned, To keep the truth from Satan himself.) which is why even his disciples did not get it until after he arose. And paul had to reason from scriptures. No one knew Jesus first would come as suffering servant. inn hads to be taken care of first. otherwise, What kingdom would Christ rule? A dead one.

but He doesnt always say the exact number of years.

even when he does we dont appear to believe Him.

Gabriel told Daniel 490 years....70 weeks.
but we dont believe Him.
we allegorized that to mean 2490 years and counting....cuz we needed a gap.
so when we assert He meant an unknown period of time and NOT 490 years....we are really saying He doesnt always mean what He says.

its nuts.

2 Chronicles 24
19Yet He sent prophets to them to bring them back to the LORD; though they testified against them, they would not listen. 20Then the Spirit of God came on Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest; and he stood above the people and said to them, "Thus God has said, 'Why do you transgress the commandments of the LORD and do not prosper? Because you have forsaken the LORD, He has also forsaken you.'" 21So they conspired against him and at the command of the king they stoned him to death in the court of the house of the LORD.

Luke 11
50so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, 51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.' 52"Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering."

and here we take one prophecy we know was fulfilled....and Jesus mentions it...and lays the charge (of the death and harm to ALL THE PROPHETS - Abel included apparently) at the feet of that very generation He was grappling with....and we allegorize it to mean a Mystical Apostate World Political Church thing in our day or yet future to us.

lol. Funny you should say this. Because this is exactly what you are doing. Not with this prophesy. I agree, this would be foolish.

But saying the psalm prophesy of the Lord smashing the nations with a rod of Iron when he rules. Saying the prince of peace. who's government will rule. as he sheppards Israel himself. and his greatness is known to the ends of the earth, and the Lord beiing king over ALL the earth And the survivors of all the nations who went up against Isreal coming and worshipping him once a year, is somehow allegorized by the church by the church age, with an absent king (as the roman catholic church concocted up, and unfortunately many of her daughters have a hard time walking away from) Which is how I see Amillenialism.

So thanks for giving us all an example we could use.

well in one way...but Daniels prophecies are finished...his prophecies were literally fulfilled (not in his lifetime...but in the lifetime of Jesus through to the end of National Israel and the Old Covenant)

No. The things Daniel said the final form of the forth beast have not happened. Unless we again allegorize things and not take them literally. Again, the 4th beast was in power in CHrist's day. The beast which followed was supposed to be much more powerful than that one, and take over the whole world (again every nation tribe and language) that has yet to happen..

John picked up where Daniel left off.

No. They both spoke of the little horn. All the things John spoke of concerning this "iron and clay" part of the beast system coinsides with Daniels prophesies concerning the same person.

right....well...the first king was that head of Gold...that kingdom.

Revelation picks up during Christ`s lifetime...the beasts of Daniel are alluded to but very little....with the exception of the Roman beast...which is the beast in place....on which the Harlot (Jerusalem) was seated.

she was Mystery Babylon the Great Harlot.

Well. Yes the beast In CHrists time was rome. But the beast was the legs, Not the feet and toes.

Jerusalem is not the harlot. The Harlot is a false religious system, or the worlds system. Not a city. But you should know this.

um....i know.

that was the kingdom Daniel was in captivity under.
the captives were freed from Babylon.

What does this have to do with the symbolic representing the literal? Seems like your going off on a side street here.

You forget during babylons reign. Not all Israel was taken from Israel. It was not a dispersion. Only a select were taken to babylon as slaves. The complete dispersion did not occure until 70 AD

But again, we go off on side streets. Thanks for at least admitting the symbolic represents the literal.

okay....so we know symbolic imagery is used to represent real things.
now we just have to determine what those real things are and were.

the Iron beast that breaketh everything and trampled everybody was Imperial Rome...right.

No. Imperial rome did not have world dominion. Not every "nation tribe and tongue" worshipped this beast. He did not control the worlds finances. He did nto change times and laws. And he was not detroyed or crushed by Christ himself. But he was destroyed by himself splitting (much like the US, if it does not get its act together, will fall)

which is when Jesus was born.

Yep. But it is still the Iron beast. Not the iron and clay beast. Non of the things the Iron and Clay has been fulfilled. Although I am sure you will try to allegorize it as fulfilled. Sorry I can;t do this

well....how do the 1,000 years end then.

As scripture said it will. Satan will be released. Again decieve the nations, Again gather an army, God himself will destroy this army where it sits. Then comes the end

hehehe...no, not literally.
you mean brass....bronze: whatever.

that was Greece - namely Alexander the Great

wasnt it

he is said to be a goat with horns and stuff too...though he was a man.

so we know we have symbols to interpret....its not always easy but it can be done.

Yep. And interesting how this man was the little horn of daniel. in contrast to the little horn of the 4th beast. Thus we should interpret the little horn of the 4th beast as a literal king. Just like we interpret alexandar as the other little horn from what we see from history (he commited the abomination, as well as all the other things he did)

should we not?

 

[zone]

EG - i read your entire post.
t.y.

Correct
Yes he is, Just Like daniel did in his book with his prophesies concerning 4 beasts. and other events which would take place by those 4 beasts.

so 490 years isn't 490 years....it's an unknown period of time.

Yeah we could. We could also post all the messianic prophesies and the prophesies of the suffering servant. And see How Jesus fulfilled ALL the servant prophesies. But he did not fulfill the messianic prophesies.

ha? servant but not messiah? what on earth does that mean?

this just depresses me...really.
jews use this argument to say Jesus wasn't the Messiah.

are you really sure you want deny that Jesus is (and was) the Christ?:

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.


Christos: the Anointed One, Messiah, Christ
Original Word: Χριστός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Christos
Phonetic Spelling: (khris-tos')
Short Definition: Anointed One, the Messiah, the Christ
Definition: Anointed One; the Messiah, the Christ.

5547 Xristós (from 5548 /xríō, "anoint with olive oil") – properly, "the Anointed One," the Christ (Hebrew, "Messiah").

Matthew 1:1
This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Luke 2:11
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.

Acts 2:36
"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah."


i dunno.
i dunno how it came down to this

sickening actually....denying He was and is Messiah.
i keep hoping you'll just think it through.



............


would be born of a woman.
Genesis 3:15
Matthew 1:20
Galatians 4:4

would be born in Bethlehem.
Micah 5:2
Matthew 2:1
Luke 2:4-6

would be born of a virgin.
Isaiah 7:14
Matthew 1:22-23
Luke 1:26-31

would come from the line of Abraham.
Genesis 12:3
Genesis 22:18
Matthew 1:1
Romans 9:5

would be a descendant of Isaac.
Genesis 17:19
Genesis 21:12
Luke 3:34

would be a descendant of Jacob.
Numbers 24:17
Matthew 1:2

would come from the tribe of Judah.
Genesis 49:10
Luke 3:33
Hebrews 7:14

would be heir to King David's throne.
2 Samuel 7:12-13
Isaiah 9:7
Luke 1:32-33
Romans 1:3

throne will be anointed and eternal.
Psalm 45:6-7
Daniel 2:44 Luke 1:33
Hebrews 1:8-12

would be called Immanuel.
Isaiah 7:14
Matthew 1:23

would spend a season in Egypt.
Hosea 11:1
Matthew 2:14-15

massacre of children would happen at Messiah's birthplace.
Jeremiah 31:15
Matthew 2:16-18

messenger would prepare the way for Messiah
Isaiah 40:3-5
Luke 3:3-6

would be rejected by his own people.
Psalm 69:8
Isaiah 53:3
John 1:11
John 7:5

would be a prophet.
Deuteronomy 18:15
Acts 3:20-22

would be preceded by Elijah.
Malachi 4:5-6
Matthew 11:13-14

would be declared the Son of God.
Psalm 2:7
Matthew 3:16-17

would be called a Nazarene.
Isaiah 11:1
Matthew 2:23

would bring light to Galilee.
Isaiah 9:1-2
Matthew 4:13-16

would speak in parables.
Psalm 78:2-4
Isaiah 6:9-10
Matthew 13:10-15, 34-35

would be sent to heal the brokenhearted.
Isaiah 61:1-2
Luke 4:18-19

would be a priest after the order of Melchizedek.
Psalm 110:4
Hebrews 5:5-6

would be called King.
Psalm 2:6
Zechariah 9:9
Matthew 27:37
Mark 11:7-11

would be praised by little children.
Psalm 8:2
Matthew 21:16

would be betrayed.
Psalm 41:9
Zechariah 11:12-13
Luke 22:47-48
Matthew 26:14-16

price money would be used to buy a potter's field.
Zechariah 11:12-13
Matthew 27:9-10

would be falsely accused.
Psalm 35:11
Mark 14:57-58

would be silent before his accusers.
Isaiah 53:7
Mark 15:4-5

would be spat upon and struck.
Isaiah 50:6
Matthew 26:67

would be hated without cause.
Psalm 35:19
Psalm 69:4
John 15:24-25

would be crucified with criminals.
Isaiah 53:12
Matthew 27:38
Mark 15:27-28

would be given vinegar to drink.
Psalm 69:21
Matthew 27:34
John 19:28-30

hands and feet would be pierced.
Psalm 22:16
Zechariah 12:10
John 20:25-27

would be mocked and ridiculed.
Psalm 22:7-8
Luke 23:35

Soldiers would gamble for Messiah's garments.
Psalm 22:18
Luke 23:34
Matthew 27:35-36

bones would not be broken.
Exodus 12:46
Psalm 34:20
John 19:33-36

would be forsaken by God.
Psalm 22:1
Matthew 27:46

would pray for his enemies.
Psalm 109:4
Luke 23:34

would pierce Messiah's side.
Zechariah 12:10
John 19:34

would be buried with the rich.
Isaiah 53:9
Matthew 27:57-60

would resurrect from the dead.
Psalm 16:10
Psalm 49:15
Matthew 28:2-7
Acts 2:22-32

would ascend to heaven.
Psalm 24:7-10
Mark 16:19
Luke 24:5

would be seated at God's right hand.
Psalm 68:18
Psalm 110:1
Mark 16:19

would be a sacrifice for sin.
Isaiah 53:5-12
Romans 5:6-8

Jesus fulfilled HUNDREDS of prophecies in His lifetime.

Messiah King Lord God





it would sure bless me and set my mind at ease to see you say something like "oh...tsk..i didn't mean He didn't come as messiah...i really meant...."

hoping.

 

[zone]

Yep. And interesting how this man was the little horn of daniel. in contrast to the little horn of the 4th beast. Thus we should interpret the little horn of the 4th beast as a literal king. Just like we interpret alexandar as the other little horn from what we see from history (he commited the abomination, as well as all the other things he did)

should we not?

you wanna get the passages on that EG?
i gotta know what you're talking about.

 

[zone]

Well. Yes the beast In CHrists time was rome. But the beast was the legs, Not the feet and toes.

can you document that please?