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What's complicated about believing ALL of the Bible and understanding that ALL must be fulfilled? God has an eternal plan for the Church and also an eternal plan for redeemed and restored Israel on earth (surrounded by saved nations).
I noticed that you are never able to comprehend possibilities. You think that whatever you believe equals truth, Bible, whatever.
So whenever somebody has a different view, its automatically "unbelief" in your eyes.
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Ariel82
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Until I came to this forum I had no clue what those terms meant either.
I just posted the articles to re-examine what they said. Haven't read them in years and I wanted to see if I still agree with them or not.
REV. 22:18-19-20-21.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the Words of the prophecy of this Book,
if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this Book:
And if any man shall take away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God shall take away his
part out of The Book of Life, and out of the Holy City, and from the things which are written in this Book.
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the Words of the prophecy of this Book,
if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this Book:
And if any man shall take away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God shall take away his
part out of The Book of Life, and out of the Holy City, and from the things which are written in this Book.
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
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Even within each camp there are variations like fingerprint that are somewhat different form the next door neighbor..It not a salvation issue . but more how can we hear God not seen and not men seen, that he calls the "hearing of faith" (his) not of us?
It would seem that beforehand the Spirit of Christ anticipated the idea of some men walking by sight looking to the things seen to give a literal understanding. Therefore not discovering the spiritual eternal understanding, as faith, the unseen like in Hebrews 4 not mixing faith the unseen eternal in what they do hear or see.
Not only did he send it or inspire he also signified the meanings hiding the unseen spiritual from the lirtalist that must walk by sight after the temporal things seen..
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and "signified it" by his angel unto his servant John:
Signified is in reference to the whole book.
Once we understand knowing that without parables the “signified language” of God, Christ spoke not to the multitude
(everyone)We can look to the spiritual meaning of those words found in Revelation 20.
What the spiritual meaning of a literal "key" or a literal chain of a literal thousand years?
The amil position seems to work the best. Just follow the prescriptions so we can hear Him aright. I will offer a couple of those prescriptions...._
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Mat 13:34
Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 : But that was not the end of the story. Israel went into Babylonian captivity (c 600 BC) and lost their land, and the remnant which returned later was under Gentile rule until AD 70, when all the Jews are driven out of Palestine. After 1948 the secular nation-state of Israel occupied only a fraction of Palestine, and today occupies about 1/10[SUP]th[/SUP] of the land promised under the Abrahamic Covenant. It is only AFTER the literal second coming of Christ to earth that the kingdom of Israel will be restored, and will occupy the land from the Nile to the Euphrates (as promised to Abraham).
Nehemiah6, you are confusing Judah with Israel. The Babylonian captivity was Judah only. The nation that today calls itself Israel has no right to that name, and they should know it. The last time it was used properly was in 722 BC, before Assyria carried the 10 Northern tribes away captive. I guess they figured the name was up for grabs (Satan's idea, I'm sure). God knows where they are even if they don't know themselves. He always separates Judah from Israel in prophecy.
You are totally right about God dealing with physical Israel differently than the spiritual Israel (the Church of Christ). Do not look at Judah occupying the mid-east as Israel's return. Go back and look at all the prophecy: being sure to separate Judah from Israel.
If it was only a question of a "different view", then we could say those are differences of opinion. When when LARGE SWATHES of Scripture are deliberately misinterpreted and/or ignored, that actually boils down to unbelief. God gave detailed covenants to Abraham (reiterated to Isaac and Jacob) as well as to David. Those covenants must either be taken as immutable or dismissed as non-binding. And the Amillennialists, Preterists and Replacement Theology proponents have done just that.
Let's take the idea that the second coming of Christ ALREADY occurred in AD 70. If that were really true, then according to Bible revelation we should already be living in the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness". But when we look all around us, and go back through history until the first century, we see that that claim is TOTALLY ABSURD. For Christ to be literally ruling on earth and the enemies of Christ to be prospering on earth at the same time can only be classified as fantasy. Yet this is what is being taught by many today. They even say that "Paradise has been restored now".
What is the Preterist View? | International Preterist Association
They even have an International Preterist Association to promote these absurdities. Just like the Flat Earth Society!
You have culled some 5/6 of the Bible with your interpretation. By removing most of God's words by the Amellinnialism interpretation, anybody's interpretation (radical or not) is as good as the next...With 5/6 of the Bible gone how can anything left be believed? Might as well go back to the dark ages where Thyatira (RCC) outlawed the Bible (death sentence) and the Pope was the only one who could correctly interpret it.
5/6 of the Bible... , Think about what you are teaching......as refer to Galatians 1:8-9,,,,,if you have not already thrown away those pages.
I don't think so. There are several references in the New Testament to Judah as Israel. When Paul writes about Israel in Romans 9-11, he is in fact referring to those who lived in Judah and were called Israel (or Israelites).
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises... But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.(Rom 9:4,30).
Nehemiah6, you are confusing Judah with Israel. The Babylonian captivity was Judah only. The nation that today calls itself Israel has no right to that name, and they should know it. The last time it was used properly was in 722 BC, before Assyria carried the 10 Northern tribes away captive. I guess they figured the name was up for grabs (Satan's idea, I'm sure). God knows where they are even if they don't know themselves. He always separates Judah from Israel in prophecy.
You are totally right about God dealing with physical Israel differently than the spiritual Israel (the Church of Christ). Do not look at Judah occupying the mid-east as Israel's return. Go back and look at all the prophecy: being sure to separate Judah from Israel.
Judah is one of the twelve tribes that Jesus Christ "The Lion of the tribe of Judah". Please read your Bible...It has all the answers, the correct answers.
He actually made two kinds of promises, the temporal as to that seen according to the flesh and two the spiritual not seen hid in parables. Which the things seen as shadows the temporal point to the eternal. The temporal land was given and depended on the flesh which after one generation was put to no effect when Solomon broke the condition.
The eternal that speaks of the eternal land the New Jerusalem prepared as His wife still remains and not as unconditional but on the condition of the unfailing love of God who is no respecter of the flesh as if he was served by human hands to begin with.
When I first started into prophecy, I read a book on premillennialism and thought that was it! Then I read a book on amillenialism and thought that was it! Then I didn't know what to think and became a panmillenialist (however it "pans" out!).
Then I started reading Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelation carefully and in depth and became a pretrib premillienalist!
I have good friends who are amillenialists and I still respect them. They just need to actually read the Bible and not the amillenial books! LOL!
Then I started reading Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelation carefully and in depth and became a pretrib premillienalist!
I have good friends who are amillenialists and I still respect them. They just need to actually read the Bible and not the amillenial books! LOL!
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Um, he didn't say Judah wasn't. But there was a reason the 12 tribes stopped being 12 along the way. Babylon took Judah. Not all of them.
You will have a hard time finding "the eternal land the New Jerusalem" in the Bible.
1. It is a Heavenly city, not a land. The land of Israel will be on earth stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates.
2. It is 1500 miles long, 1500 miles wide, and 1500 miles high. A perfect cubic city which is as large as a continent. Thus it represents the Holy of Holies (which was also a cube), and is also the eternal dwelling place of God and of the Lamb.
3. It is a supernatural city which has been prepared by God for His saints. It is their eternal home and has mansions for all the saints. Their eternal imperishable inheritance is also in that city.
4. It has a wall with twelve foundations, therefore the city itself has twelve foundations, and the materials used in its construction are precious metals and precious stones (no doubt far better than anything seen on earth).
5. This city will descend from Heaven and remain as a celestial body over the earth, since the light of the New Jerusalem will give light to the earth and its nations.
6. Redeemed and restored Israel will be on earth eternally, and surrounded by saved nations.
You will find all of this in the Bible, but you will not find these things as "parables". Parables had a limited use and a limited application and it was primarily to hide spiritual truths from Christ's enemies. The Bible has a very small component of parables so I do not see how you and others start replacing prophecies with parables.
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In light of what you say,,,in Revelation 5:9 did Jesus mention any of he things that were sealed in Matthew 24.Mark 13. Luke 21 ect.?
If what you are asking is whether there is a correspondence between the Olivet Discourse and the seven seals of Revelation, I would say that for the first five seals there is clearly a correspondence. Which means that the events and prophecies of seals 1 to 5 began to be fulfilled from the first century and have continued being fulfilled even to this date. The severity and frequency of earthquakes is a good example -- "...and earthquakes, in divers places..." (Mt 24:7).
Many Futurists believe the at the seals will be opened only after the Antichrist appears, but we can clearly see correspondence until the 6th seal. The 6th and 7th seal are yet future.
Thats not what I am asking at all,,,In Revelation 5:9 He(Jesus) was found worthy to open the sealed scroll because he was "slain" (no one was found worthy to do so before then) so if he (Jesus) had not yet been "slain" at the discourse(Olivet) did he mention anything from the sealed scroll prior to him being slain and being found worthy to open it?
I believe in option 1 ... That conforms with the Book of Revelation..
Since Revelation is prophetic, and God and Christ know the end from the beginning, Jesus was fully aware of what would be revealed to John after His resurrection and for the book of Revelation. However, He would not disclose anything prematurely, so He did not mention the seals in the Olivet Discourse. Indeed it was only AFTER His resurrection and AFTER the aposltes received the Holy Spirit that He opened all the OT Scriptures to them. But even that would have been too early to speak about the future prophecies given to John.