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Ariel82
Guest
Where are Abraham, Moses, Jacob and David now?
Dead in the grave or in heaven?
Jesus tells us in the Bible.
Dead in the grave or in heaven?
Jesus tells us in the Bible.
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Blessed are those that wait for the 1290 days until the 1335 days after the Abomination that Desolates of Daniel 12 have no meaning to an Amil believer because the Abomination happened under Antiochus Ephiphanes or in 70 AD but under the Amil belief, the Abomination that Desolates that Jesus foretold cannot be connected to His return according to Amil because if the Abomination that Desolates happens a few years before Jesus' return then the Book of Revelation is true.
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Ariel82
Guest
Anyone good with English grammar and can clearly articulate the difference between Indicative and Subjunctive mood tenses?
Therefore, there is nothing in the context that would suggest that the thousand years is anything but a literal thousand year period. That is if it was not also signified and not just sent.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and "signified" it by his angel unto his servant John:
The whole book is written and signified. In that way I believe we can have a better understanding on what it means when Christ said without parables he spoke not hiding the spiritual unseen understanding from natural man who must walk by sight after that literally seen
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
I would suggest the literal word key signifies the gospel as the loosening or bindings authority of the Spirit of Christ , the literal chain represents the power to bind, the bottomless pit the never ending authority of the gospel .
The dragon or serpent represents Satan who came in the garden it signifies the spirit of lies . it bound him a thousand ... a word used to signify a unknown thousands years, according to the measure of God, the golden reed .
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
What do you think the literal word thousand signifies in that verse?
The Spirit of grace, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God has been working in His saints to both will and do His good pleasure, sending out the gospel as prophecy.. reigning from heaven since the beginning of time .
In these last days there simply is no earthen vessel a shadow used to represent him not seen . The time of reformation came over two thousand literals years ago. We walk by the unseen eternal not after that seen the temporal.
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1Pe 1:9 The first resurrection.
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Ariel82
Guest
The Earth is God's footstool, when Satan was cast out of Heaven with 1/3 of His rebelling angels, God's promise was fulfilled.
So the war is on Earth and not heaven, but it's still in the spiritual realms and people still would rather repeat what they have said 1000 times, then take a moment and pray and ask God what should be said.
Going back to reading...
So the war is on Earth and not heaven, but it's still in the spiritual realms and people still would rather repeat what they have said 1000 times, then take a moment and pray and ask God what should be said.
Going back to reading...
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Ariel82
Guest
Romans 6
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For whoever has died is freed from sin. 8 But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin, once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
*****
Do you walk in the Newness of life?
Have you died with Christ and to sin?
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For whoever has died is freed from sin. 8 But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin, once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
*****
Do you walk in the Newness of life?
Have you died with Christ and to sin?
I'm going to quote some things about the Greek. We don't call the "indicative" by that name in English, although we certainly have the subjective, which is something that is a dependent clause, and can't stand alone. Indicative in English basically means it is stating facts. Subjective technically is stating possibilities, conjectures, "what if."
"Just like Greek nouns, the Greek verb also changes form (the Greek 'spelling', so to speak). The form changes based upon the subject of the verb and the kind of action indicated. As was mentioned earlier, Greek is a fully "inflected language." Each Greek word actually changes form (inflection) based upon the role that it plays in the sentence. The stem of the verb shows the basic meaning or action of the word, but the ending (or ‘suffix’) changes to show various details. Not only the ending of the verb may change, but the verb form may have a ‘prefix’ added to the beginning of the verbal stem. Sometimes the actual stem of the verb may change or may add an ‘infix’ to indicate certain other details."
The aspect of the grammatical "mood" of a verb has to do with the statement's relationship to reality. In broad terms, mood deals with the fact of whether the asserted statement is actual or if there is only the possibility of its actual occurrence. "Whether the verbal idea is objectively a fact or not is not the point: mood represents the way in which the matter is conceived" (Dana & Mantey). If the one asserting the sentence states it as actual, then the mood reflects this, regardless of whether the statement is true or false.
The indicative mood is the only mood conceived of as actual while with the other three moods (imperative, subjunctive, and optative) the action is only thought of as possible or potential.
Indicative Mood
The indicative mood is a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective. Even if the writer is lying, he may state the action as if it is a fact, and thus the verb would be in the indicative mood. It may be action occurring in past, present, or future time. This 'statement of fact' can even be made with a negative adverb modifying the verb (see the second example).
This is in contrast to one of the other moods (see below) in which the writer/speaker may desire or ask for the action to take place.
For example: "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb."
Rev. 12:11 "God is not mocked." Gal. 6:7
Imperative Mood
The imperative mood is a command or instruction given to the hearer, charging the hearer to carry out or perform a certain action.
For example: "Flee youthful lusts." 2 Tim. 2:22
Subjunctive Mood
The subjunctive mood indicates probability or objective possibility. The action of the verb will possibly happen, depending on certain objective factors or circumstances. It is oftentimes used in conditional statements (i.e. 'If...then...' clauses) or in purpose clauses. However if the subjunctive mood is used in a purpose or result clause, then the action should not be thought of as a possible result, but should be viewed as a definite outcome that will happen as a result of another stated action.
For example: "Let us come forward to the Holy of Holies with a true heart in full assurance of faith." Heb 10:23
"In order that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known through the church..." Eph 3:10
Optative Mood
The optative is the mood of possibility, removed even further than the subjunctive mood from something conceived of as actual. Often it is used to convey a wish or hope for a certain action to occur.
For example: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." I Thess 5:23
Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)
We do have the imperative in English, commonly called the "command" tense. However, unlike Greek and German, or French and Spanish, there are not different, unique words for it in English. For example, if you want someone to stop now, you would just say "STOP!" The exclamation mark, the lack of a subject indicate imperative. Other languages are much more definitive in their verbs.
Same with subjunctive verbs. In Greek, the vowel is lengthened in the subjective, although the ending are similar to the Indicative mood. In English we tend to identify the subjunctive because of the relative pronoun or subordinate pronoun that starts the clause, and that it cannot stand alone.
"I went to the store, which I hoped was open."
"I went to the store," is the main or coordinate clause, and it can stand alone. It is a complete sentence or thought.
"which I hoped was open," is the subjunctive or dependent clause. It starts with a relative pronoun, and it is not complete. It cannot stand on its own.
Greek is very similar, except besides the relative pronoun, it has a verb in the subjunctive. Plus, because of the flexibility of Greek, it can appear in strange places. In English, the subordinate clause is usually, but not always, second. In Greek, there is never a doubt, because of the double identification of the clause with both the relative pronoun and the lengthened verb indicating the subordinate.
Of course, English can be difficult for some to identify the subordinate clause. I always remember my grade 7 English teacher teaching subordinate clauses for literally months. After a few weeks of getting 100% on every daily quiz on this topic, my best friend and I got permission to go to the library and do some research projects. That was very unusual in those days, for a teacher to let someone out of the instruction part of the class. But wisely, she knew we got the idea, and that we were bored to tears. Really, I never understood why the topic was so difficult, my friend and I got the first time it was explained. We just did a big section on subordinate clauses in German, which has some unique difficulties. I confess to relying on my knowledge of both Greek and English to figure out how to identify and use subordinate clauses auf Deutsch!
PS Sorry if this is a bit muddled. I am in a lot of pain because a truck hit me last week, and I can't think well.
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Ariel82
Guest
I hope I put enough English in there to answer your question. Of course, if you are looking at verses in the Bible, it is almost essential to refer back to the Greek, even if you don’t completely read it. That is because we use the same verb forms over and over, to mean different things in a sentence. The verb tenses in Greek (and noun cases) really can be learned quite quickly, in a year. Other grammar, such as Genitive Absolute, etc, need quite a bit more work.
It says RIGHT THERE it was NOT David that ascended to Heaven. If he didn't ascend into Heaven how could Jesus be sitting on David's throne IN HEAVEN?
Further, David says The LORD ( God the Father) says to my LORD (Jesus Christ), "Sit at My Right Hand (God the Father's right Hand). When did David EVER sit at God the Father's Right Hand in Heaven!?
This is how Jesus taught us to pray:9 In this manner, therefore, pray:Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your Kingdom come.
( Come where? God lost His Heavenly Kingdom? Or are we praying for Jesus' Earthly Kingdom to come. John the Baptist told us THIS “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!” He uses this as a title of Jesus Christ)
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
(If ANYONE thinks God's Will is being done on EARTH now they are beyond deluding themselves)
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
What gives you the right to allegorize/Spiritualize the angel Gabriel's prophecy given to Mary? What exactly are you praying for while using the model Jesus gave us?
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What parable in Revelation 20? There are NO PARABLES in Revelation, and you will not even find that word in that book. Why do Christians invent fantasies when things are stated plainly? Let's look at the first ten verses and see if there is any parabolic or hidden meaning. And a literal understanding of Scriptural is the spiritual understanding of Scripture (unless there is a clear metaphor).
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
How can anyone call any of this "parables", but Garee seems to apply that word indiscriminately?
1. First of all please note that in seven verses "a (the) thousand years" (Greek chilia ete) is repeated SIX TIMES. So the first question to ask is "Why would God repeat a word six times if it was meaningless and could be made to mean anything?" God is not the God of confusion, therefore it should be clear to any Christian who has not been brainwashed with the doctrines of men to accept the thousand years as 1,000 years (a Millennium).
2. There are some extremely significant events which belong to the Millennium and chronologically they fit between the second coming of Christ (Rev 19) and the New Heavens and the New Earth (Rev 21 & 22).
3. Before Christ can take total control of this world, Satan must be literally bound (so that he cannot roam the earth deceiving people and causing them to sin and rebel against Christ). While we may not know exactly what the key of the bottomless pit is or what that chain is composed of, the bottom line is that Satan is bound. That is not the case right now.
4. All the Tribulation saints who were martyred are resurrected. While the first resurrection is mentioned here, this is actually PHASE THREE of the first resurrection. The resurrection of Christ was phase one (the firstfruits), the Resurrection of all the saints at the Rapture was phase two (the harvest). The reason there is a group called the Tribulation saints, is because the whole Church did NOT go through the Tribulation to face being beheaded if they refused to take the Mark of the Beast.
5. All the saints live and reign with Christ for that one thousand year period, which is only mentioned here, but is detailed in many Old Testament prophecies.
6. "The rest of the dead" is a reference to the unsaved dead, who experience the resurrection of damnation just before the Great White Throne Judgment.
7. Satan is loosed after the 1,000 years and allowed to deceive the nations and gather them for the battle of Gog and Magog. All those gathered for this battle are supernaturally destroyed, and Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire.
So how can anyone talk about all of this as "parables"?
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Garee! Why don't you come down off your fluffy spiritual cloud and read the word of God in the literal sense until a symbolic interpretation is required, instead of spiritualizing everything?
Your question above is a contradiction in terms! If it is the literal word "thousand" then it is literal, not spiritual! How about this for the meaning of a thousand years, 999 years plus 1 year, ergo, a thousand years. Was that so difficult?
How is it that you and others read the scripture which is consistent citing "a thousand years" six times within Rev.20:1 thru 7, but instead of believing what it literally says, you and others go looking around to try and figure out what a thousand years means. My gosh man! It's a thousand years!!! Just like the 144,000 is a literal 144,000. Let me put it this way, when you stand before the Lord you won't be able to say, "but Lord your word doesn't say a thousand years."
With the way you and others interpret scripture, I'm always wondering how God would have to have written His word on any given subject in order to get you and others to believe that He was speaking literally. At the end of each scripture would He have had to have added "No, really! I mean a literal thousand years?!"
With your manner of interpretation, If the word of God said, "The sky is blue sayeth the Lord" you guys would be scrambling through OT scriptures in order to figure out what God meant by the sky being blue. That sounds ridiculous, but that is how you interpret scripture.
The level of spiritual deception in these last days never ceases to amaze me.
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So, I went to German today, and guess what we studied? The Indicative and Subjunctive moods in English and German. Plus the Imperative. Because I reviewed this, I had all the right answers.
So thanks Ariel! Nothing like picking up a few brownie points, while the rest of the class looks bored! LOL
Have you ever looked at or heard of Linear A or B? Just a quick curious question(not to interfere with O.P.) Ive looked all over the www and found a little and so it made me wonder if any of your teachers had mentioned it.
The NT is written in Koine Greek. This language is the "common" Greek spoken in Jesus' day. It has degenerated or gotten simpler from classical Greek forms. For example, the optative form is almost gone in the Bible. The diagramma letter is gone. I guessed the apostles chose to remain in the vernacular, so people would actually understand what was written.
I had not heard of these, but I found quite a bit on the internet about it. You probably have a different search engine where you are, which is why it is not showing up.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Linear-A
Here are a few more links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_B
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_A
https://graecomuse.wordpress.com/ancient-language-resources/linear-a-and-b/
I have never studied these scripts, because they were not used in the same time or place as Koine Greek. I know most Greek translators have studied classical Greek, but I am not on that track, right now!
I had not heard of these, but I found quite a bit on the internet about it. You probably have a different search engine where you are, which is why it is not showing up.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Linear-A
Here are a few more links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_B
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_A
https://graecomuse.wordpress.com/ancient-language-resources/linear-a-and-b/
I have never studied these scripts, because they were not used in the same time or place as Koine Greek. I know most Greek translators have studied classical Greek, but I am not on that track, right now!
lol, but if you lived 2000 yeas ago and ask someone about the same word they would have brought up Chiliasm the second you ask,and why is that they believed in 6 sets of 1000 ect. and the 7th was the mill.,,,(thats what they saw)
I am actually in Texas at the moment,lol but I do appreciate your effort(thanks) and most of this I have seen(but nothing more). I wondered if any of your professors had mentioned it.
I came across it when I first began to look at papyrus 115 with Kenisyes back about 2012 or so. It is written in Alexandrian text type(all upper case) but still the same as common or Koine. Anyway in AH from Irenaeus he mentioned the name "Tietan", to us it's Titan(variant spelling) and so if there was another way for it to be spelled so Linear A,B ect. which is prior to the Koine(again thanks though).
No, they would have believed it to be a literal thousand years, just as it is written in scripture. They wouldn't have gone looking for another meaning for "a thousand years." And it's not 6 sets of 1000, but the same thousand years mentioned consistently six times within the context. When you see this, then understand that a thousand years is what God means. It is the same with the number 144,000 that come out of the twelve tribes of Israel. There is nothing in the scripture to lead the reader to interpret that number other than the amount given. The same thing applies to the 200 million demonic army that those four angels gather to kill a third of mankind, or a third of the sun, moon and stars being darkened, or a third of the rivers and fresh water to be contaminated, or a third of the earth and trees being burned up, a third of the creatures in the sea dying and a third of the ships being destroyed, etc.. God is using literal numbers, which those who are wise in their own minds, are not believing. They just go off looking for some other meaning to those numbers, because they read it from the myriad of false teachings, YouTube, seminars, web-sites and hearsay.