Amillennialism

[eternally-gratefull]

How hard is this seriously?

(Luke 21:20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

(Luke 21:21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Abomination of Desolation = Roman Armies coming into the Temple and carrying out all their pagan rites in there.

Them that flee - Judaens.

(Matthew 24:22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Some Christians will be saved. If not then NO flesh would be saved.

This isnt rocket surgery bud.

What is yer problem with this?

so then how is it jews in 70 ad?? why were the days not shortened??

Your time line does not add up? is flesh jews? or christian? or "ALL FLESH"

 

[Strangelove]

Why do you think I am holding people accountable now before I move on??

Oh do make sure you leave us the address of the forum your moving on to mate.

We'll all come and pester you there.

 

[shroom2]

1) Have you seen any false Christs? (a couple of nut-jobs, maybe, but nobody with a large following.) are you serious? Jesus disciples numbered 120 on the day of pentecost... um have you cked the stats at any megachurch?
ok if you want to be blind to history that is your choice.

You consider all megachurches to be led by false Christs? People claiming to be Jesus Christ???

2. I mean WWI and WWII just got those names because the people just felt like labeling them that....

The entire world was not involved. How many people were killed in the good old USA?

3. ummm yeah you want some pictures of starving people?

You consider the famines we see now as world-wide?

4. yes over 1/4 of the world population is spiritually dead

It will be far more than spiritual death: " to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

5. mmm let me find those verses and get back to you on that but yes when part of the earth shakes you know the rest does to right? its called plate tectonics....

Let me quote it for you:
12) And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14) And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

You believe that has happened????

6. how do you know what it will be like during the trib? have you read anything about the Christian church in China or any of the Muslim Countries...

Read Revelation. There has been NOTHING like what Revelation describes will happen.

 

[Strangelove]

so then how is it jews in 70 ad??

Huh?

It says right here:

Luke 21:21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee

Those which are in Judea are JEWS (The NATIONALITY)

Ya know? Jew?

Jew - G2453
Ἰουδαῖος
Ioudaios
ee-oo-dah'-yos
From G2448 (in the sense of G2455 as a country); udaean, that is, belonging to Jehudah: - Jew (-ess), of Juda.

why were the days not shortened??

Huh?

The days WERE shortened. Sayz so right here:

but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Your time line does not add up? is flesh jews? or christian? or "ALL FLESH"

I dont even know what your asking me?

Does anyone else not understand this?

 

[shroom2]

Does anyone else not understand this?

You, if you're trying to fit the prophesys of Matt 24 into the destruction of the temple.

 

[Strangelove]

Because EG has been told he is a false teacher. YET NO ONE KNOWS WHAT EG BELIEVES. AND THEY KEEP PROVING IT BY SAYING STUFF HE DOES NOT BELIEVE. (Like you just did in the above post. asking the silly question about God saving the unregenerate) I mean where does that crap come from?? When have I ever said God will save All isreal even though they have not repented?

But you said they WILL repent. No matter WHAT. Coz you think its prophecy.

And you say JEWS ARE PART OF ISRAEL.

So basically you are saying all Jews will be saved. Done deal. No matter what.

I mean...this is like hyper-dispyism. Your making God into some kind of dictator, and saying that Jews have no freewill.

Your saying whatever happens...all jews are gonna repent, regardless of what they wanna do...and will therefore be saved.

So all you non-predestination fellas who think you can lose your salvation....

QUICK....CONVERT TO JUDAISM...LOLZ!!!!

Then you'll be guaranteed of aquiring eternal life by way of 'Salvation by jewish prophecy'.

What are you waiting for??? lol...

...get to your nearest synagogue IMMEDIATELY!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh so....All Israel are not gonna be saved then EG?

If they were. how would they be saved?

 

[Strangelove]

So your going to continue thinking I believe Israel will be saved even though they have not repented?

Where did anyone say you believed that?

 

[Strangelove]

If they were. how would they be saved?

By coming to Jesus obviously.

So will all the jews be saved or not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh do make sure you leave us the address of the forum your moving on to mate.

We'll all come and pester you there.

I rest my case?? So anyone that reads this does not think Strangelove has not taken to making personal attacks??

He does not care what I believe. he has already proven that.

he wants to debate. but how can one debate when you do not know what the other believes.

i tell ya abiding.. lets see how honest you are. are you ready to rebuke strangle for his attacks. or is it just me??

I mean unclfester rebuked red. and I agreed with the rebuke. Are people afraid to say a word aginst stranglelove? does he hold that much power over everyone?

 

[Strangelove]

I rest my case?? So anyone that reads this does not think Strangelove has not taken to making personal attacks??

He does not care what I believe. he has already proven that.

he wants to debate. but how can one debate when you do not know what the other believes.

i tell ya abiding.. lets see how honest you are. are you ready to rebuke strangle for his attacks. or is it just me??

LOLZ!

Personal attack?

Dramatic.

 

[Strangelove]

I think all this angst is coming from you spelling your username wrong. Bad start.

Hey bud...can I have your reps when you move on?

 

[AnandaHya]

PreMillennial. As for when the rapture will take place no one knows but the heavenly Father although I have yet to find any scripture that is definitive proof of the pre tribulational perspective.

I used to believe that Satan was bound because as much as people believe in paranormal activity it can't be scientifically proven. However, later in life God began to deal with me about the current state of the over all church. There are so many issues it's just too much to list here. I began to look at the number of people who sincerely call themselves believers yet are bound in habitual sin, fear, doubt... just to name a few of many issues that plague today's churches and the church's inability to do anything about it.

That's when I realized that Satan isn't bound. He's hiding and he thrives on the fact that the church either underestimates or overestimates his abilities. Although his power is limited, he is quite masterful in using the subtle things like pride, ambition, fear and doubt to destroy the modern church. He doesn't need army to render the church impotent in faith, pornography and complacency seem to work just as good, although if you were to give the opportunity to raise up an army he'd kill us all.

i think He was bound but during the mass slaughter of the 2 world wars the pit was opened and now he works with the signs and wonders and prosperity is but a word away crowd. (they like to call it the latter rain) you know so that it might deceive even the elect if possible....

I'm mid trib leaning towards amillennial. lol though I didn't know the meaning of the terms till recently I believe rapture and resurrection will occur after some tribulation but before Ammagedeon and the final out pouring of God's wrath and complete destruction of the Earth and creation of new Earth and new Jerealselum.

 

[AnandaHya]

Are people afraid to say a word aginst stranglelove? does he hold that much power over everyone?

nah, ignoring him would probably annoy him more. it does the kids I hung around that acted like him and my kids hate it when I ignore them but until they speak respectfully I just send them to their room. Don't see the point in rebuking him, sometimes negative attention is still attention and that is all some people want.

yes Doc that was a backhanded jab, I figure since you remind me of Zone I might as well treat you like I do her lol at least I haven't alluded to the idea that you two (doc and EG) might be in love or something...that's what had her annoyed with me last time....

i'm thinking this might not do anything but add fuel to the fire.... mmm, sometimes its nice to watch things burn, maybe it will cauterize the wound?

ok earthquakes? sun darkening? resurrection of the dead?

it happened when Jesus was cruxified and rose again....

Matthew 27:50-54
New King James Version (NKJV)
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
54 So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”


like I said how do you know Rev 6 has not been fulfilled?

 

[AnandaHya]

You, if you're trying to fit the prophesys of Matt 24 into the destruction of the temple.

Matt 24 they ask Jesus 3 questions one of which is about the destruction of the temple He talked about in verses 1 and 2. therefore which verses answer that question about the destruction of the temple?

I say 15 -22 verses describe for them what to expect and how to react.

what are you thoughts?

have to read the rest of the post but just wanted to ask that one real quick...

 

[AnandaHya]

What symbolism? Why should I not take 1000 years to mean 1000 years? When did God ever prophesy a time period that was not literally fulfilled?

Agree


yet revelation speaks of Gods wrath and judgment being poured out on the world. Not after he comes, but before.. why is that?

The passage says the tribulation immediately follows the abomination. which is immediately followed by his return to "save all flesh" Did Jesus return to save all flesh when Jerusalem was destroyed? or are we still waiting??

so where is the immediacy? we have been in great tribulation for almost 2000 years??

Your timeline does not make sense. that is why I am asking

try one more time

section one answers question 3 of the disciples: When does the age end and what signs to watch.

we agree on the second part about the temple, that is the ONLY thing fulfilled 70 AD. (which by the way you just agreed that the prophecy of Daniel was fulfilled at the destruction of the temple)

Jesus saves all flesh now so I don't see the point, but it talks about the end times and after the Son of perdition is revealed who is NOT the Abomination as mentioned earlier...

the immediacy is that God's timeline is not ours and our lives are but a grain of sand but God loves us even though we are but a blink in the landscape of time.

you keep wanting to blend all three answers into one event. that's why my responses don't make any sense to you.

3 separate events answering three different questions.

want to discuss them one at a time or keep being confused about which one we are even discussing?

1. end of age
2.destruction of temple
3. return of Christ

 

[Strangelove]

The passage says the tribulation immediately follows the abomination. which is immediately followed by his return to "save all flesh"

Where does it say He's gonna come and "save all flesh"?

(Matthew 24:22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

[AnandaHya]

12) And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14) And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

ok seriously, I personally would not down play the suffering of the world to prove my own estachological position but I guess that is your choice...

..i have to go soon but let me post a few scriptures that you might want to reexamine:

Matthew 27:50-54
New King James Version (NKJV)
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
54 So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”

Luke 10
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather[f] rejoice because your names are written in heaven.

Revelation 12:9-12
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”


Angels are referred to as Stars in Revelations....anyways. I've got to go I'll catch up on this discussion when I get a chance. probably not till Monday.

hope everyone has a blessed weekend.

 

[shroom2]

Matt 24 they ask Jesus 3 questions one of which is about the destruction of the temple He talked about in verses 1 and 2. therefore which verses answer that question about the destruction of the temple?

I say 15 -22 verses describe for them what to expect and how to react.

what are you thoughts?

have to read the rest of the post but just wanted to ask that one real quick...

I believe the topic changed completely between verses 2 and 3. Verses 3 and following concern the end times, not the destruction of the temple. I could be wrong.

Verse 7, for example, I believe is referring to things that will happen in Revelation, not at the destruction of the temple.

You have given me something to check more in to, Ananda.

 

[AnandaHya]

Where does it say He's gonna come and "save all flesh"?

(Matthew 24:22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

yeah it talks about how God will always have a remnant of faithful people and not allow all of them to be killed

but the whole save the whole world idea is so much more cozy. eeehhh? forget the fact God will give glorified bodies upon His return and other pesky details about the goat and the sheep, the tares and the wheat, etc.