An Introduction to the Doctrines of Grace: Limited Atonement

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seed_time_harvest said:
Now that's a good question.Sounds like they are saying GOD Is fair to some not ALL.
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God being fair is tossing all mankind in an eternal hell. His mercy is that He sent His Son to redeem a multitude of sinners from their sins.

You're conflating fairness with mercy. No one wants God to be fair, trust me.

You kill someone, fairness would be you dying as you killed someone who is in God's image. Mercy would be them dropping the charges.
 
notuptome said:
How can you not see that Adam chose to become like Eve after she ate of the tree of good and evil? Adam chose to be like Eve over his fellowship with God. Adam was not deceived like Eve but made a choice to follow his wife.

Good old Adam then tried to blame Eve when he told God that the woman you gave me did give me and I did eat. Adam threw Eve under the bus. What a guy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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My apology. I thought you meant after God made Eve, Adam had to chose her, not after her eating of the ToK. Again, my apology.
 
SovereignGrace said:
God being fair is tossing all mankind in an eternal hell. His mercy is that He sent His Son to redeem a multitude of sinners from their sins.

You're conflating fairness with mercy. No one wants God to be fair, trust me.

You kill someone, fairness would be you dying as you killed someone who is in God's image. Mercy would be them dropping the charges.
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To be fair. He is not merging fairness with mercy. On the other hand fairness and justice are the same. If God was just, as He is, He would give everybody the same punishment for sin. But because of His Love and Mercy he sent Jesus to get us, and bring us home.
 
ForthAngel said:
Can you address the text? Maybe give me your interpretation line by line? Psalm 5 should be enough:

Psalm 5
4 For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
evil may not dwell with you.
5 The boastful shall not stand before your eyes;
you hate all evildoers.
6 You destroy those who speak lies;
the Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.

Verses five and six talk specifically about people, not only their sin. Does the passage mean what it seems it means?



Can you show me from the text where nations are being addressed? I need a better explanation than your opinion in order to be able to agree with you or see your point. Can you give me a full rundown of how Jesus is speaking of nations and use scripture to do so?
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He won't address this, seeing if he does so biblically, his ideology gets blown outta the water. Duck, dodge & hide...
 
notuptome said:
I prefer to use the bible to understand what the word means and how to apply it.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Our predestination is in Christ not to Christ. The benefits of eternal life are predestined in Christ made possible by the atonement of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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The Greek word proorizo was used for predestinted in Ephesians 1:5 & 1:11. It means...



  1. [*=left]to predetermine, decide beforehand

    [*=left]in the NT of God decreeing from eternity

    [*=left]to foreordain, appoint beforehand


 
SovereignGrace said:
He won't address this, seeing if he does so biblically, his ideology gets blown outta the water. Duck, dodge & hide...
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[SUP]6 [/SUP]Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (falsehood): the Lord will abhor (detest in an ethical sense) the bloody and deceitful man.


[h=1]Psalm 5:6(AMPC)[/h] [SUP]6 [/SUP]You will destroy those who speak lies; the Lord abhors [and rejects] the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.

You need to dig deeper
 
SovereignGrace said:
The Greek word proorizo was used for predestinted in Ephesians 1:5 & 1:11. It means...



  1. [*=left]to predetermine, decide beforehand
    [*=left]in the NT of God decreeing from eternity
    [*=left]to foreordain, appoint beforehand


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Yep, and it's always addressing already saved believers. Paul tells these already saved believers that they are predestined for the adoption, which is the redemption of their bodies. It's a future thing. God has predetermined my future based on my belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not one time does Scripture ever indicate that someone has been predestined to believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's just not there.
 
John146 said:
Yep, and it's always addressing already saved believers. Paul tells these already saved believers that they are predestined for the adoption, which is the redemption of their bodies. It's a future thing. God has predetermined my future based on my belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not one time does Scripture ever indicate that someone has been predestined to believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's just not there.
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We were chosen from before the creation of the world. We were first foreknown[pre-arrangement is the proper understanding], then elected, then predestined, then called, then justified and finally we will be glorified. That's how this all works together.
 
John146 said:
Yep, and it's always addressing already saved believers. Paul tells these already saved believers that they are predestined for the adoption, which is the redemption of their bodies. It's a future thing. God has predetermined my future based on my belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not one time does Scripture ever indicate that someone has been predestined to believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's just not there.
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These believers were predestined from before the creation of the the world.
 
John146 said:
Yep, and it's always addressing already saved believers. Paul tells these already saved believers that they are predestined for the adoption, which is the redemption of their bodies. It's a future thing. God has predetermined my future based on my belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not one time does Scripture ever indicate that someone has been predestined to believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's just not there.
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For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.[Romans 8:29,30]

First we see God's foreknowledge at work. Those He foreknew[this is not merely Him looking down the pike to find out who would and would not believe, either, but by pre-arrangement] He predestined to be conformed to the image of the Christ. Those He predestined He called. How are ppl called? Via the proclamation of the word of God, the gospel. Those He called He justified. How are ppl justified? Via faith. Seeing that when Abraham believed God he was justified[Romans 4:3] he was declared righteous, it shows that not everyone has faith. If one has faith, they're justified. And these He called He glorified. This show a select group of ppl, as not everyone is glorified.

So, foreknowledge, predestination, effectual calling, justification and glorification centers solely on God's ppl, His elect.


 
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SovereignGrace said:
He won't address this, seeing if he does so biblically, his ideology gets blown outta the water. Duck, dodge & hide...
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Hardly I'm just seeing that you cannot spoon feed meat to milk drinkers. They just struggle with it. Mat 25:32 continues the kingdom principal established in Mat 7.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Roger,

I misunderstood you and apologized to you. And you in turn insult me again? Ignore for you, too.

You guys are unbelieveable.
 
SovereignGrace said:
God being fair is tossing all mankind in an eternal hell. His mercy is that He sent His Son to redeem a multitude of sinners from their sins.

You're conflating fairness with mercy. No one wants God to be fair, trust me.

You kill someone, fairness would be you dying as you killed someone who is in God's image. Mercy would be them dropping the charges.
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Okay, the word merciful Is more accurate but It wouldn't be fair to subject those that didn't sin the same way adam sinned to eternal hell.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
Okay, the word merciful Is more accurate but It wouldn't be fair to subject those that didn't sin the same way adam sinned to eternal hell.
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Adam acted on behalf of all whom he represented, the whole human race. All God had to do was leave that fallen creation w/o a Redeemer for them to go to hell. Yet, in His mercy, He sent His Son to die and be resurrected to save a multitude of ppl who deserved hell.

His Son acted on the behalf of all whom He represented, the sheep, the elect of God.

He shall save His ppl from their sins.[Matthew 1:21]
 
SovereignGrace said:
Adam acted on behalf of all whom he represented, the whole human race. All God had to do was leave that fallen creation w/o a Redeemer for them to go to hell. Yet, in His mercy, He sent His Son to die and be resurrected to save a multitude of ppl who deserved hell.

His Son acted on the behalf of all whom He represented, the sheep, the elect of God.

He shall save His ppl from their sins.[Matthew 1:21]
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Nevertheless ,Is It fair/just to send everyone to hell because of what adam did?NOPE.thank you JESUS for mercy.GOD Is a good GOD.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
very,VERY true
.
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Before you jump the gun, look at who you are agreeing with. He says God does not hate ppl, but Psalms 5:5,6 & Proverbs 6:16-19 state differently.

He says spiritual death is not a corpse but separation from God. Nekros, the Greek word used for 'dead' in Ephesians 2:1 means just that, a corpse.


Then when asked why do ppl die lost, it is because they didn't do this, or didn't do that. Yer, the bible says its not dependant upon man's will to begin with, but God's will.[John 1:13, Romans 9:16, Ephesians 1:19]
 
seed_time_harvest said:
Nevertheless ,Is It fair/just to send everyone to hell because of what adam did?NOPE.thank you JESUS for mercy.GOD Is a good GOD.
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Adam acted on behalf of the whole human race. You can see the two Adams in Romans 5:12-19. The first Adam placed us all at enmity with God, causing us to be born dead in transgressions and sins. The last Adam acted on behalf of His ppl, the elect of God.

He shall save His ppl from their sins.[Matthew 1:21]
 
seed_time_harvest said:
Nevertheless ,Is It fair/just to send everyone to hell because of what adam did?NOPE.thank you JESUS for mercy.GOD Is a good GOD.
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Because of Adam sin entered the world.
God is good even if he did not send Jesus. God's goodness is not dependent on us . He is Just in condemning all .He is merciful in sending Jesus . We are all deserving of hell . God's mercy and goodness don't take away from His being Just . Those attributes stand equally among others .we should never lift one above the other .
Blessings
Bill
 
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SovereignGrace said:
Adam acted on behalf of the whole human race. You can see the two Adams in Romans 5:12-19. The first Adam placed us all at enmity with God, causing us to be born dead in transgressions and sins. The last Adam acted on behalf of His ppl, the elect of God.

He shall save His ppl from their sins.[Matthew 1:21]
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I'm not disagreeing with you,I'm asking you,Is It just/fair to send ALL those who did not sin the way adam sinned,to hell?

GOD Is just.

You might say,JESUS died only for those whom HE would draw and those are the ones HE would not lose,but what about the question I ask,Is that just?
 
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