An Introduction to the Doctrines of Grace: Total Depravity

[Johnny_B]

Total Depravity ​

God is sovereign, but He made Man a responsible being. This is a paradox. We must believe both truths for they are both taught in Scripture. Man is certainly accountable to God (Rom. 14:12; Eccl. 12:13-14). God created Adam and Eve as morally responsible persons. In fact, they were created without any sin (Eccl. 7:29). But they fell into sin (Gen. 3). Since Adam was the head of the race of humanity, and we all descended from him, his sin affected the whole human race (Rom. 5:12-19). Human nature ever since then is flawed by sin, and every human being except Jesus Christ has inherited Original Sin (Psa. 51:5; Rom. 3). As a result, we all sin by nature and by choice.

Man is born in sin with an evil and wicked nature (Eph. 2:3; Matt. 7:11). In fact, we share the same evil nature as Satan (John 8:44). We sin because it is our nature to sin. Sin completely fills every aspect of our beings from head to toe (Isa. 1:5-6). Our hearts (Eccl. 9:3) and minds are filled with sin (Tit. 1:15; Eph. 4:17-19; 1Tim. 3:8; 6:5). “The heart is more deceitful than anything else, and desperately wicked” (Jer.17:9). There is no good left in man whatsoever (Rom. 7:18). Man is basically evil, not good.

The Bible paints a grotesque picture of Man, far different than the beautiful idea Man imagines of himself. Man is dead, not sick (Eph. 2:1; Col. 2:13). He is blind, not near-sighted (2 Cor. 3:14). His heart is as hard as stone (Ezek. 11:19; Jer. 23:29). By nature we are slaves of sin (2 Pet.2:19; John 8:34; Rom. 6:16, 20) and slaves of the Devil (John 8:44; Eph. 2:2; 2 Tim. 2:26). Calvinist utterly deny that Man has a “free will.” How can it be free when Scripture so frequently says that it is a slave? Man is enslaved to his sinful nature. What’s more, he is a willing slave and does not want to be free. He would rather be a slave to sin than serve God as his king.

There’s more still. Because of the utter sinfulness of human nature, Man does not have the moral ability to change his nature (Jer. 13:23). He cannot stop sinning or even want to stop sinning (2 Pet. 2:14). Everything he does has a sinful motive behind it, even when he does what outwardly appears to be good. “The wickedness of Man was great on the Earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (Gen. 6:5). Man never obeys God. He is unable any longer to truly obey God (Rom. 8:7-8; Matt. 7:18). He never seeks God (Rom. 3:11) and is unwilling to come to God for help (John 5:40). He is unwilling because he is unable (John 6:44, 65).

Calvinism also denies that Man is ever morally neutral (Matt. 6:24, 12:20). Man is always set against God. His will is not neutral or self-determining. He always wills in accordance with his nature; since his nature is evil, his thoughts and motives are always evil. But this moral inability does not annul his responsibility. Quite the contrary-it compounds his guilt. Remember, this sinfulness is self-inflicted. God does not cancel Man’s debt simply because Man has squandered the loan and is unable to pay God back. Man is guilty and deserves to go to Hell (Rom 6:23). Granted, there are degrees of sin. Some sins are worse than others, and some sinners are worse than other sinners (John 19:11). But even the least sinner is totally depraved and morally unable to obey. At heart, all men love sin and hate God with all their hearts (John 3:19-20; Prov. 21:10; Matt. 6:24). He is totally without hope (Eph. 2:12), without strength to obey (Rom. 5:6) and without excuse (Rom. 2:1).

No theology except Calvinism teaches the full truth about the sinfulness of Man.​

​
By Curt Daniel from his book, Biblical Calvinism.

 

[BenFTW]

I got a little hyper, when I read the title for this thread.

 

[Muzungu256]

hmmmm i dont remember augustine describing it like this?????????????????

 

[Johnny_B]

It's Curt Daniel's take, there are things I disagree with, but it is up to each person to read and search the Scriptures to see if they are correct.

I believe the Scriptures say man can do good, but not in pleasing God.

Matthew 7:11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Romans 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[BenFTW]

I got a little hyper, when I read the title for this thread.

I hope someone, anyone, got that joke.

 

[Johnny_B]

I hope someone, anyone, got that joke.

I got it and if you read it he is a little hyper.

 

[Blik]

Why should anyone come up with theories out of their human mind and then search scriptures to try to justify it? And why study what a human mind decides about doctrines when we have the word to guide our studies?

When the Jews were sent to Babylon and deprived of their temple and priests they decided to create Rsabbis who took it upon themselves to interpret scripture. The Pharisees followed their doctrine, Christ scolded them for that.
Study and follow scripture, not man's interpretation of scripture.

 

[Johnny_B]

Why should anyone come up with theories out of their human mind and then search scriptures to try to justify it? And why study what a human mind decides about doctrines when we have the word to guide our studies?

When the Jews were sent to Babylon and deprived of their temple and priests they decided to create Rsabbis who took it upon themselves to interpret scripture. The Pharisees followed their doctrine, Christ scolded them for that.
Study and follow scripture, not man's interpretation of scripture.

The Word of God, is not a bunch of different ideas and whatever you believe is okay as long as you love the Lord. There is not one Scripture that says that. As for the Jews, they did not have the Word of God fully confirmed to them, it was still being confirmed to them. We read what other men have writing to see if they are one of the gifts that the Lord has given to the Church, as in Ephesians 4:11-14. This is why all the Scripture references, so that we can look them up and see if indeed they are saying what he says they are saying. As I mentioned I dos not agree with everything Curt says, but the majority of what he says is true and it lines up with Scripture. The greatest misunderstanding about total depravity is that as Curt, people think it means that man can do no good whatsoever and that is not true, Matthew 7:11, but man can never do good enough to please God, Romans 8:8. It's like the doctrine of limited atonement, Jesus is the propitiation or ransom for the sins of the world all mankind, but in the atoning of sin it is applied only to those that believe/whosoever, it does not atone for the sins of those that are unbelievers, other wise they would be saved and it is clear that they are not. Notice the famous John 3:16 that everyone turns to for universal atonement, yes God showed the world that He loved them by send His only Son, it does not say that He loved them by saving them or atoning for their sins. That is applied to those that believe or the whosoever, they receive everlasting life, not the world, only the believers. Making Christ's atonement limited to those that believe and it was done by a direct plan and the foreknowledge of God Acts 2:23 and for His people John 10:11, 15, 18, He does it for His sheep, why? Because He knows them and they hear His voice. That word for know is a active relationship that He has with them from before the foundation of the world, it not that He has knowledge of them, no His has a relationship with them. In that we are bonded to Him, who is that? We were in His death, resurrection and the Father sees us already fitted with Him in heavenly places, in His glorification.

II Peter 1:19-21 "And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.?

Ephesians 4:11-14 "And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes."

 

[Blik]

Jojnny, I agree. The word of God is not a bunch of different ideas, it is not men's ideas, it is the word of God.
It
After the gentile became the church Fathers they began adding what they had been taught by their pagan family to the word of God. The Christian Jews had grown up with scripture and they were the fathers for over 100 years. The gentiles took over when the Romans killed the Jews putting down a rebellion.

It was 323 years before the gentile additions to God's word were made law. We call those 300 plus years the age of the apostles.

Our churches still reflect those pagan changes and we are still adding man's doctrines to God's word. Now we have Lutherans, Baptist, Methodist, Catholics and so on instead of Christians with only the doctrines of God.

 

[Johnny_B]

Jojnny, I agree. The word of God is not a bunch of different ideas, it is not men's ideas, it is the word of God.
It
After the gentile became the church Fathers they began adding what they had been taught by their pagan family to the word of God. The Christian Jews had grown up with scripture and they were the fathers for over 100 years. The gentiles took over when the Romans killed the Jews putting down a rebellion.

It was 323 years before the gentile additions to God's word were made law. We call those 300 plus years the age of the apostles.

Our churches still reflect those pagan changes and we are still adding man's doctrines to God's word. Now we have Lutherans, Baptist, Methodist, Catholics and so on instead of Christians with only the doctrines of God.

So what you are saying is that the Lord of the universe is not powerful enough to change pagan gentiles by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit to understand and interrupt His word to know the proper teaching of the Bible. How did you get that from reading the Bible? Can you give me the Scripture that teach this.

 

[pottersclay]

Jojnny, I agree. The word of God is not a bunch of different ideas, it is not men's ideas, it is the word of God.
It
After the gentile became the church Fathers they began adding what they had been taught by their pagan family to the word of God. The Christian Jews had grown up with scripture and they were the fathers for over 100 years. The gentiles took over when the Romans killed the Jews putting down a rebellion.

It was 323 years before the gentile additions to God's word were made law. We call those 300 plus years the age of the apostles.

Our churches still reflect those pagan changes and we are still adding man's doctrines to God's word. Now we have Lutherans, Baptist, Methodist, Catholics and so on instead of Christians with only the doctrines of God.

Did God ever use pagan customs for his purposes?