Matthew 25:46—uses the phrase “everlasting [Greek, aionion] punishment.” Some have denied that this means eternal in the sense of absolutely unending. In the same verse, however, Jesus used the same word of life “eternal” (aionion) in a manner that is directly and exactly parallel. In other words, the punishment will be as eternal as the eternal life. This leaves no room for any later restoration of the wicked. In Matthew 25:41 the punishment is defined as “everlasting [Greek, aionion] fire.”
And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
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The Bible calls this final separation from God “the second death.” In the Book of Revelation the lake of fire is so described (Revelation 20:14). Jesus also identified Gehenna as a second death when He warned: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna]” (Matthew 10:28; see also Luke 12:4,5). This clearly refers to another death after the physical death of the body. It is also clear that this death is different in order and in kind. As physical death is separation from the body and from the environment of this life, so the second death is a final and eternal separation from God and from the life to be enjoyed in the new creation. Among those consigned to this second death will be all who take the mark of the beast (Revelation 14:9–11). These will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the angels and Christ. That is, though shut off from the new creation in the lake of fire, they will be able to see the Lamb of God they rejected, just as Lazarus was able to see across the great gulf between Hades and Abraham’s bosom (Luke 16:23). Again, they will not be annihilated, for “the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night” (Revelation 14:11). They will be forever denied the rest promised to the saints.
None of these passages indicates any promise of rehabilitation or restoration once the final judgment is pronounced. No sanctifying agent is revealed in connection with the lake of fire or Gehenna. The fire is parallel to the “worm” of Mark 9:44,46,48 (KJV). It is looked at as punitive, not purifying. There will be no second chance. This should stir the Church to proclaim the message, “Now is the day of salvation” (2 Corinthians 6:2).
None of these passages indicates any promise of rehabilitation or restoration once the final judgment is pronounced. No sanctifying agent is revealed in connection with the lake of fire or Gehenna. The fire is parallel to the “worm” of Mark 9:44,46,48 (KJV). It is looked at as punitive, not purifying. There will be no second chance. This should stir the Church to proclaim the message, “Now is the day of salvation” (2 Corinthians 6:2).
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It doesn’t say they are in eternal conscious torment anywhere. “The fire is eternal so the punishment must be eternal” is an example of causation not implying correlation.
The “eternal punishment” is death because it never ends. I can quote probably around 20+ verses to support that, but you can’t even quote a single verse saying the unrepentant wicked person goes to hell and suffers eternally.
So far you’ve shown me eternal fire and smoke that rises forever. Maybe you should rethink your commitment to the eternal torment doctrine and quit telling gullible and ignorant Bible illiterates they’ll burn forever if they go to hell.
The “eternal punishment” is death because it never ends. I can quote probably around 20+ verses to support that, but you can’t even quote a single verse saying the unrepentant wicked person goes to hell and suffers eternally.
So far you’ve shown me eternal fire and smoke that rises forever. Maybe you should rethink your commitment to the eternal torment doctrine and quit telling gullible and ignorant Bible illiterates they’ll burn forever if they go to hell.
The rich man also died and was buried. 23And being in tormenta in Hades,b he looked up and saw Abraham a long way off, with Lazarus at his side. 24‘Father Abraham! ’a he called out, ‘Have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agonyb in this flame! ’
Jesus characterized the intermediate state of the wicked after death (hell, Hades) as one of fire (Luke 16:23,24), but this is to be distinguished from the eternal fire. Jesus’ words in Luke 16 show us that the wicked remain conscious and are aware of their state and of what they have missed. But the eternal fire is to be identified with what Jesus called Gehenna or literally “the gehenna of fire” (Matthew 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:8,9; 23:15; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5). This fire is not only to be eternal, but is also said to be of such a nature that it can never be quenched (Mark 9:43). This clearly indicates that there can be no possible end to the fire or the punishment. The punishment is as eternal as the fire. If the fire brought an annihilation of the wicked, there would be no reason for the fire being eternal.
Jesus characterized the intermediate state of the wicked after death (hell, Hades) as one of fire (Luke 16:23,24), but this is to be distinguished from the eternal fire. Jesus’ words in Luke 16 show us that the wicked remain conscious and are aware of their state and of what they have missed. But the eternal fire is to be identified with what Jesus called Gehenna or literally “the gehenna of fire” (Matthew 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:8,9; 23:15; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5). This fire is not only to be eternal, but is also said to be of such a nature that it can never be quenched (Mark 9:43). This clearly indicates that there can be no possible end to the fire or the punishment. The punishment is as eternal as the fire. If the fire brought an annihilation of the wicked, there would be no reason for the fire being eternal.
Health and Happiness:
Thank you for bringing this up. Pastor said something about this 3 weeks ago and I had not picked up on this until then and have been amazed at what I have found in the bible to back it up. This may sound ? But I am excited to study and find out more about it. A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
Psalms 37 (copied from King James Bible online)
17For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.
18The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
19They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
20But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Copied from Biblehub.com Is.26:14
Berean Study Bible
The dead will not live; the departed spirits will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed them; You have wiped out all memory of them.
King James Bible
They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Thank you for bringing this up. Pastor said something about this 3 weeks ago and I had not picked up on this until then and have been amazed at what I have found in the bible to back it up. This may sound ? But I am excited to study and find out more about it. A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
Psalms 37 (copied from King James Bible online)
17For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.
18The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
19They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
20But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Copied from Biblehub.com Is.26:14
Berean Study Bible
The dead will not live; the departed spirits will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed them; You have wiped out all memory of them.
King James Bible
They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
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Part 2
Malachi 4:1-3
Berean Study Bible
“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble; the day is coming when I will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of Hosts. “Not a root or branch will be left to them.”
King James Bible
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Berean Study Bible
“But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings, and you will go out and leap like calves from the stall.
King James Bible
But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Berean Study Bible
Then you will trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day I am preparing,” says the LORD of Hosts.
King James Bible
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
James 1:10-12
Berean Study Bible
But the one who is rich should exult in his low position, because he will pass away like a flower of the field.
King James Bible
But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.
Berean Study Bible
For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its flower falls and its beauty is lost. So too, the rich man will fade away in the midst of his pursuits.
King James Bible
For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.
Berean Study Bible
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.
King James Bible
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Malachi 4:1-3
Berean Study Bible
“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble; the day is coming when I will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of Hosts. “Not a root or branch will be left to them.”
King James Bible
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Berean Study Bible
“But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings, and you will go out and leap like calves from the stall.
King James Bible
But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Berean Study Bible
Then you will trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day I am preparing,” says the LORD of Hosts.
King James Bible
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
James 1:10-12
Berean Study Bible
But the one who is rich should exult in his low position, because he will pass away like a flower of the field.
King James Bible
But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.
Berean Study Bible
For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its flower falls and its beauty is lost. So too, the rich man will fade away in the midst of his pursuits.
King James Bible
For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.
Berean Study Bible
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.
King James Bible
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
The Final Judgment. There will be a final judgment in which the wicked dead will be raised and judged according to their works. Whosoever is not found written in the Book of Life, together with the devil and his angels, the beast and the false prophet, will be consigned to everlasting punishment in “the fiery lake of burning sulfur: This is the second death” (Revelation 21:8; compare Matthew 25:46; Mark 9:43–48; Revelation 19:20; 20:11–15).
Here we note that the punishment is with the devil and his angels, that it is everlasting, and that it is in the lake of fire which is called the second death. This paper will attempt to give further definition and explanation to each of these points.
THE WICKED SHARE SATAN’S DOOM
The Bible makes it clear that the lake of fire was not intended for people but for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). God’s purpose and desire for humanity has always been good. The first heaven and earth were created good (Genesis 1:31). The Law was given for the good of humankind (Deuteronomy 6:24). God does not will that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9). In fact, God works in all things for the ultimate good of those who love Him and respond to His call (Romans 8:28). Nevertheless, God will not allow Satan to spoil the new heaven and the new earth which are to come. God will shut him off in the lake of fire. Those who follow Satan must share Satan’s doom (John 16:8,11), for they have Satan, not God, as their father (John 8:44).
Those who share Satan’s punishment are further referred to as the “wicked” (Matthew 13:49,50). This is a general term for all who are actively evil and worthless. They include the cowardly (cowardly because of lack of faith), the unbelieving, the vile (the disgusting, detestable), murderers, sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts (those who use enchantments, harmful drugs), idolaters, and all liars (Revelation 21:8). (See also Matthew 8:12; 13:41,42; 22:13; 23:15; 25:30,33; Luke 13:27; Revelation 21:27; 22:15.) Paul sums it up by including all who do not know God with a personal knowledge of salvation plus all who do not keep on obeying the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8).
THE PUNISHMENT OF THE WICKED HAS NO END
Matthew 25:46—uses the phrase “everlasting [Greek, aionion] punishment.” Some have denied that this means eternal in the sense of absolutely unending. In the same verse, however, Jesus used the same word of life “eternal” (aionion) in a manner that is directly and exactly parallel. In other words, the punishment will be as eternal as the eternal life. This leaves no room for any later restoration of the wicked. In Matthew 25:41 the punishment is defined as “everlasting [Greek, aionion] fire.”
Jesus characterized the intermediate state of the wicked after death (hell, Hades) as one of fire (Luke 16:23,24), but this is to be distinguished from the eternal fire. Jesus’ words in Luke 16 show us that the wicked remain conscious and are aware of their state and of what they have missed. But the eternal fire is to be identified with what Jesus called Gehenna or literally “the gehenna of fire” (Matthew 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:8,9; 23:15; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5). This fire is not only to be eternal, but is also said to be of such a nature that it can never be quenched (Mark 9:43). This clearly indicates that there can be no possible end to the fire or the punishment. The punishment is as eternal as the fire. If the fire brought an annihilation of the wicked, there would be no reason for the fire being eternal.
Jesus also referred to the same fire as a “fiery furnace” (Matthew 13:42,50) where there will be terrible remorse shown by weeping and gnashing of teeth. But remorse is not repentance. The remorse of Judas did not save him from eternal loss as the “one doomed to destruction” (John 17:12; Acts 1:16–20). Jesus identified this weeping and gnashing of teeth as taking place in “outer darkness” (Matthew 8:12; 22:13; 25:30, KJV et al.). This darkness indicates a final separation from God and from the Lamb who is the light of the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:23).
Another New Testament passage refers to eternal punishment as “eternal judgment,” that is, a judgment that is valid eternally (Hebrews 6:2). Still another passage speaks of “ruin” (literally, “death,” “separation”) and “destruction” (eternal loss) (1 Timothy 6:9). This “everlasting destruction” (or separation) is “from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power” (2 Thessalonians 1:9). In these passages the word “death” is thus used in the sense of spiritual death or separation from God. The sinner is even now dead in trespasses and sins and therefore without Christ, or separated from Christ (Ephesians 2:1,12). Eternal judgment brings a final and eternal separation from God and from Christ.
Here we note that the punishment is with the devil and his angels, that it is everlasting, and that it is in the lake of fire which is called the second death. This paper will attempt to give further definition and explanation to each of these points.
THE WICKED SHARE SATAN’S DOOM
The Bible makes it clear that the lake of fire was not intended for people but for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). God’s purpose and desire for humanity has always been good. The first heaven and earth were created good (Genesis 1:31). The Law was given for the good of humankind (Deuteronomy 6:24). God does not will that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9). In fact, God works in all things for the ultimate good of those who love Him and respond to His call (Romans 8:28). Nevertheless, God will not allow Satan to spoil the new heaven and the new earth which are to come. God will shut him off in the lake of fire. Those who follow Satan must share Satan’s doom (John 16:8,11), for they have Satan, not God, as their father (John 8:44).
Those who share Satan’s punishment are further referred to as the “wicked” (Matthew 13:49,50). This is a general term for all who are actively evil and worthless. They include the cowardly (cowardly because of lack of faith), the unbelieving, the vile (the disgusting, detestable), murderers, sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts (those who use enchantments, harmful drugs), idolaters, and all liars (Revelation 21:8). (See also Matthew 8:12; 13:41,42; 22:13; 23:15; 25:30,33; Luke 13:27; Revelation 21:27; 22:15.) Paul sums it up by including all who do not know God with a personal knowledge of salvation plus all who do not keep on obeying the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8).
THE PUNISHMENT OF THE WICKED HAS NO END
Matthew 25:46—uses the phrase “everlasting [Greek, aionion] punishment.” Some have denied that this means eternal in the sense of absolutely unending. In the same verse, however, Jesus used the same word of life “eternal” (aionion) in a manner that is directly and exactly parallel. In other words, the punishment will be as eternal as the eternal life. This leaves no room for any later restoration of the wicked. In Matthew 25:41 the punishment is defined as “everlasting [Greek, aionion] fire.”
Jesus characterized the intermediate state of the wicked after death (hell, Hades) as one of fire (Luke 16:23,24), but this is to be distinguished from the eternal fire. Jesus’ words in Luke 16 show us that the wicked remain conscious and are aware of their state and of what they have missed. But the eternal fire is to be identified with what Jesus called Gehenna or literally “the gehenna of fire” (Matthew 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:8,9; 23:15; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5). This fire is not only to be eternal, but is also said to be of such a nature that it can never be quenched (Mark 9:43). This clearly indicates that there can be no possible end to the fire or the punishment. The punishment is as eternal as the fire. If the fire brought an annihilation of the wicked, there would be no reason for the fire being eternal.
Jesus also referred to the same fire as a “fiery furnace” (Matthew 13:42,50) where there will be terrible remorse shown by weeping and gnashing of teeth. But remorse is not repentance. The remorse of Judas did not save him from eternal loss as the “one doomed to destruction” (John 17:12; Acts 1:16–20). Jesus identified this weeping and gnashing of teeth as taking place in “outer darkness” (Matthew 8:12; 22:13; 25:30, KJV et al.). This darkness indicates a final separation from God and from the Lamb who is the light of the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:23).
Another New Testament passage refers to eternal punishment as “eternal judgment,” that is, a judgment that is valid eternally (Hebrews 6:2). Still another passage speaks of “ruin” (literally, “death,” “separation”) and “destruction” (eternal loss) (1 Timothy 6:9). This “everlasting destruction” (or separation) is “from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power” (2 Thessalonians 1:9). In these passages the word “death” is thus used in the sense of spiritual death or separation from God. The sinner is even now dead in trespasses and sins and therefore without Christ, or separated from Christ (Ephesians 2:1,12). Eternal judgment brings a final and eternal separation from God and from Christ.
THE SECOND DEATH
The Bible calls this final separation from God “the second death.” In the Book of Revelation the lake of fire is so described (Revelation 20:14). Jesus also identified Gehenna as a second death when He warned: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna]” (Matthew 10:28; see also Luke 12:4,5). This clearly refers to another death after the physical death of the body. It is also clear that this death is different in order and in kind. As physical death is separation from the body and from the environment of this life, so the second death is a final and eternal separation from God and from the life to be enjoyed in the new creation. Among those consigned to this second death will be all who take the mark of the beast (Revelation 14:9–11). These will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the angels and Christ. That is, though shut off from the new creation in the lake of fire, they will be able to see the Lamb of God they rejected, just as Lazarus was able to see across the great gulf between Hades and Abraham’s bosom (Luke 16:23). Again, they will not be annihilated, for “the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night” (Revelation 14:11). They will be forever denied the rest promised to the saints.
None of these passages indicates any promise of rehabilitation or restoration once the final judgment is pronounced. No sanctifying agent is revealed in connection with the lake of fire or Gehenna. The fire is parallel to the “worm” of Mark 9:44,46,48 (KJV). It is looked at as punitive, not purifying. There will be no second chance. This should stir the Church to proclaim the message, “Now is the day of salvation” (2 Corinthians 6:2).
The Bible calls this final separation from God “the second death.” In the Book of Revelation the lake of fire is so described (Revelation 20:14). Jesus also identified Gehenna as a second death when He warned: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna]” (Matthew 10:28; see also Luke 12:4,5). This clearly refers to another death after the physical death of the body. It is also clear that this death is different in order and in kind. As physical death is separation from the body and from the environment of this life, so the second death is a final and eternal separation from God and from the life to be enjoyed in the new creation. Among those consigned to this second death will be all who take the mark of the beast (Revelation 14:9–11). These will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the angels and Christ. That is, though shut off from the new creation in the lake of fire, they will be able to see the Lamb of God they rejected, just as Lazarus was able to see across the great gulf between Hades and Abraham’s bosom (Luke 16:23). Again, they will not be annihilated, for “the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night” (Revelation 14:11). They will be forever denied the rest promised to the saints.
None of these passages indicates any promise of rehabilitation or restoration once the final judgment is pronounced. No sanctifying agent is revealed in connection with the lake of fire or Gehenna. The fire is parallel to the “worm” of Mark 9:44,46,48 (KJV). It is looked at as punitive, not purifying. There will be no second chance. This should stir the Church to proclaim the message, “Now is the day of salvation” (2 Corinthians 6:2).
The Bible does so. Not in your wording, but clear enough for anyone to grasp.
Matt 25:46 - “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
This is describing unbelievers. Explain how there can be ANY kind of punishment if the person no longer exists. That is totally illogical.
Rev 20:10 -
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
This is what happens to those who are cast into the lake of fire: tormented day and night for ever and ever. A really long time.
How silly. The Bible never describes existence in the LOF as "eternal life". Eternal life is given to believers. Sheesh.
OK, so let's understand what the Bible actually means.
In Revelation, the LOF is described twice as the "second death". So what will die when unbelievers are cast into the LOF? Recall that there will be a physical resurrection of all unbelievers, for appearing at the GWT judgment. John 5:28,29 and Acts 24:15. So when they are cast into the LOF their physical body will be destroyed. That is what dies.
Matt 25:46 and Rev 20:10 are quite clear.
Matt 25:46 - “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
This is describing unbelievers. Explain how there can be ANY kind of punishment if the person no longer exists. That is totally illogical.
Rev 20:10 -
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
This is what happens to those who are cast into the lake of fire: tormented day and night for ever and ever. A really long time.
How silly. The Bible never describes existence in the LOF as "eternal life". Eternal life is given to believers. Sheesh.
OK, so let's understand what the Bible actually means.
In Revelation, the LOF is described twice as the "second death". So what will die when unbelievers are cast into the LOF? Recall that there will be a physical resurrection of all unbelievers, for appearing at the GWT judgment. John 5:28,29 and Acts 24:15. So when they are cast into the LOF their physical body will be destroyed. That is what dies.
Matt 25:46 and Rev 20:10 are quite clear.
David wrote very powerful Scripture and I've
prayed his imprecatory prayers from time to time. Isaiah is one of my favorite prophets and O.T. books. There memory shall perish is certain. Jesus includes the resurrection of the dead in the day of judgement. I think their memory is gone from history, but God, knowing all things calls to remembrance each individuals works that they will use as their appeal during their trial. Matthew 7:21...
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. "
They did not do the will of the Father.
They are trusting in their works, for example, they believed that their prophecies, exorcisms, and many other works that many men would call wonderful would help save them.
However, Jesus never did know them. Why?
They never trusted Him alone as Savior.
John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
We see the Son today in His written Word.
Faith comes by hearing the Word of God.
The choice comes down to whether a man or woman will believe in their own righteous deeds or the Righteous Savior.
That's the great news! Man's destiny can change from hell to heaven in a minute with that one simple decision.
How awesome is that?
prayed his imprecatory prayers from time to time. Isaiah is one of my favorite prophets and O.T. books. There memory shall perish is certain. Jesus includes the resurrection of the dead in the day of judgement. I think their memory is gone from history, but God, knowing all things calls to remembrance each individuals works that they will use as their appeal during their trial. Matthew 7:21...
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. "
They did not do the will of the Father.
They are trusting in their works, for example, they believed that their prophecies, exorcisms, and many other works that many men would call wonderful would help save them.
However, Jesus never did know them. Why?
They never trusted Him alone as Savior.
John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
We see the Son today in His written Word.
Faith comes by hearing the Word of God.
The choice comes down to whether a man or woman will believe in their own righteous deeds or the Righteous Savior.
That's the great news! Man's destiny can change from hell to heaven in a minute with that one simple decision.
How awesome is that?
Melach said:
what about the part of the verse that says, they have no rest day nor night?
What nonsense! By adding an actual time frame phrase (day and night) preceding "for ever and ever" John was clearly communicating the fact that existence in the LOF will be forever. Just as Matt 25;46 says. "eternal punishment"
I wish Runningman and klerronomos would explain how punishment can be eternal when the person doesn't exist. That is hilarious.
what about the part of the verse that says, they have no rest day nor night?
What nonsense! By adding an actual time frame phrase (day and night) preceding "for ever and ever" John was clearly communicating the fact that existence in the LOF will be forever. Just as Matt 25;46 says. "eternal punishment"
I wish Runningman and klerronomos would explain how punishment can be eternal when the person doesn't exist. That is hilarious.
Great point! But the deniers will simply keep denying what the Bible so clearly teaches.
I wish these deniers would explain how to punish someone who no longer exist. How does that work, exactly.
Kinda like sticking a needle in a corpse, I guess. Does the soul feel that? That would be akin to voodoo.
I wish these deniers would explain how to punish someone who no longer exist. How does that work, exactly.
Kinda like sticking a needle in a corpse, I guess. Does the soul feel that? That would be akin to voodoo.
Ridiculous defense. The FACT that Matt 25:46 says plainly "eternal punishment" is enough to understand.
You CAN'T punish someone who no longer exists. Why do you think that is possible?
Rev 20:10 is also clear anough.
If a person no longer exists, eternal has no meaning whatsoever.
Oh, get real. Rev 20:10 says THEY shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. The smoke rises for ever and ever because the person is THERE for ever and ever.
You need to rethink your unbiblical notions.
You CAN'T punish someone who no longer exists. Why do you think that is possible?
Rev 20:10 is also clear anough.
If a person no longer exists, eternal has no meaning whatsoever.
Oh, get real. Rev 20:10 says THEY shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. The smoke rises for ever and ever because the person is THERE for ever and ever.
You need to rethink your unbiblical notions.
Matthew 25:46 is irrelevant to this discussion, but Revelation 20:10 says something regarding the length of time the torment will occur. You’ll notice I always say “all people will not be eternally tormented” because that isn’t what the Bible says.
Turning back to Revelation 20:10, it says that three persons will be tormented: the devil, beast, and false prophet.
It’s worth noting that the KJV says only the devil will be tormented forever while many other versions include the pronoun “they.”
Rev. 20:10 KJV
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
So depending on which version one reads, it says the devil, beast, and false prophet will be tormented for eternity, not all unsaved people.
I would also consider the possibility that since this is John’s vision it isn’t literal. Remember, John saw a woman dressed in the sun and chased by a dragon. John also saw death thrown into the lake of fire, so one must ask if death is also tormented forever. How is death tormented?
Anyway, Rev. 20:10 is the only verse in the Bible that says anyone is tormented forever and it applies to three people, not all. Now that you know that you should quit saying all unsaved people will suffer eternally in hell, but I doubt you will.
Turning back to Revelation 20:10, it says that three persons will be tormented: the devil, beast, and false prophet.
It’s worth noting that the KJV says only the devil will be tormented forever while many other versions include the pronoun “they.”
Rev. 20:10 KJV
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
So depending on which version one reads, it says the devil, beast, and false prophet will be tormented for eternity, not all unsaved people.
I would also consider the possibility that since this is John’s vision it isn’t literal. Remember, John saw a woman dressed in the sun and chased by a dragon. John also saw death thrown into the lake of fire, so one must ask if death is also tormented forever. How is death tormented?
Anyway, Rev. 20:10 is the only verse in the Bible that says anyone is tormented forever and it applies to three people, not all. Now that you know that you should quit saying all unsaved people will suffer eternally in hell, but I doubt you will.
First, of course Matt 25:46 is relevant. It's about the unbeliever, and we know where they will end up; in the LOF. Second, of course not "all people will be eternally tormented". Only all unbelievers.
What immediately follows v.10? The GWT judgment, where all unbelievers will be cast into the LOF, where the beast, FP and the devil already are.
Yeah, so much for the thundering diction of ye ol' KJV.
This translation doesn't indicate that ONLY the devil will be tormented for ever and ever.
What you continue to avoid is that in the very next verses the Bible DOES refer to all the rest of unbelievers, and they will be cast into the SAME PLACE.
Explain why all the rest of unbelievers won't experience what the evil trinity will experience?
So you don't think that visions can't or just aren''t literal?? Well, that idea sure helps your position, but it is rather defenseless.
I think it is obviously clear that he wasn't describing literally.
I believe "death and hades" refers to all the unbelievers that will be in them at the GWT judgment.
Just keep reading.
It is clear from the Bible.
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
The verses that immeidately precede this verse describe believers and unbelievers and their end.
So, how does your conscience handle your refusal to acknowledge "eternal punishment" for ALL unbelievers? Just curious.
What immediately follows v.10? The GWT judgment, where all unbelievers will be cast into the LOF, where the beast, FP and the devil already are.
Yeah, so much for the thundering diction of ye ol' KJV.
This translation doesn't indicate that ONLY the devil will be tormented for ever and ever.
What you continue to avoid is that in the very next verses the Bible DOES refer to all the rest of unbelievers, and they will be cast into the SAME PLACE.
Explain why all the rest of unbelievers won't experience what the evil trinity will experience?
So you don't think that visions can't or just aren''t literal?? Well, that idea sure helps your position, but it is rather defenseless.
I think it is obviously clear that he wasn't describing literally.
I believe "death and hades" refers to all the unbelievers that will be in them at the GWT judgment.
Just keep reading.
It is clear from the Bible.
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
The verses that immeidately precede this verse describe believers and unbelievers and their end.
So, how does your conscience handle your refusal to acknowledge "eternal punishment" for ALL unbelievers? Just curious.
OK. That's your opinion.
It is.
Yes it does. And I explained that. Are you aware that there will be a physical resurrection of all unbelievers?
John 5:28,29
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
No, since all unbelievers WILL BE resurrected back into their earthly physical bodies, when they are cast into the LOF, it will be their physical bodies that will DIE AGAIN. Hence, a second death. Real simple.
There is nothing of common sense or biblically sound in claiming that torment can be applied to someone who no longer exists.
Do you believe in voodoo? That's sticking a pin in a doll that resembles someone you want to torment. Does it work? No. Neither will tormenting a person who no longer exists work. Just common sense.
It is.
Yes it does. And I explained that. Are you aware that there will be a physical resurrection of all unbelievers?
John 5:28,29
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
No, since all unbelievers WILL BE resurrected back into their earthly physical bodies, when they are cast into the LOF, it will be their physical bodies that will DIE AGAIN. Hence, a second death. Real simple.
There is nothing of common sense or biblically sound in claiming that torment can be applied to someone who no longer exists.
Do you believe in voodoo? That's sticking a pin in a doll that resembles someone you want to torment. Does it work? No. Neither will tormenting a person who no longer exists work. Just common sense.
Punishment is meted out once; the effects are eternal. It is not eternal punishing.
Your second assertion harkens back to the "death is not punishment" argument, which is quite illogical.
Not just from a theological perspective, but a secular one as well.
Death is what God proclaimed as punishment right from the beginning.
Your second assertion harkens back to the "death is not punishment" argument, which is quite illogical.
Not just from a theological perspective, but a secular one as well.
Death is what God proclaimed as punishment right from the beginning.
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