And whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after Me, cannot be My disciple

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Jackson123 said:
From your previous post, seem to me you believe that after the crucifixion of Jesus we not need to take the cross anymore because we not under the law but grace.

It mean you believe taking the cross is under the law, like animal sacrifice.

Paul take the cross

Paul say he is not under the law

So take the cross is not under the law
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Don't be discouraged Jackson, the Holy Spirit has asked me to give up many things since I started my ministry. If we hold anything of this world more dear than our walk with Christ, it will be used against us. The disciples understood this:

Mark 10:28-30 "Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, but he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life." :)
 
Guojing said:
How about this thinking, "Jesus took the cross for us, so that we don't have to"? You may not share that thinking of course, you have the freedom to reject it. But at the very least, can you understand the divine exchange that took place for us at the crucifixion?
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E
Than why Paul take the cross? Don't he know better than us, Paul say that he was crucified with Christ after Jesus die on the cross, not before

If your theory that matt 10 only for Jews before Jesus die than Paul do not need to take the cross.

Paul not doing animal sacrifice anymore, because he believe he is not under the law

And Paul take the cross, so taking the cross is not under the law like animal sacrifice.

Yes Jesus die for our sin, but He want us to take our cross. He want us to be like Him.

You remember one of old song

To be like Him, all I want is to be like Jesus.
 
Deade said:
Don't be discouraged Jackson, the Holy Spirit has asked me to give up many things since I started my ministry. If we hold anything of this world more dear than our walk with Christ, it will be used against us. The disciples understood this:

Mark 10:28-30 "Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, but he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life." :)
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Thanks for your encouragement brother, that is what we as brother and sister in Christ do, encourage each other, pray for each other. I pray God keep use you more and more
 
Jackson123 said:
E
Than why Paul take the cross? Don't he know better than us, Paul say that he was crucified with Christ after Jesus die on the cross, not before

If your theory that matt 10 only for Jews before Jesus die than Paul do not need to take the cross.

Paul not doing animal sacrifice anymore, because he believe he is not under the law

And Paul take the cross, so taking the cross is not under the law like animal sacrifice.

Yes Jesus die for our sin, but He want us to take our cross. He want us to be like Him.

You remember one of old song

To be like Him, all I want is to be like Jesus.
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You must find it difficult to accept that people have different interpretations of the Bible. Romans 14:5

If you want to bear the cross after you are saved, no one is stopping you from doing so. Other people believe that Jesus has finished all the works that is required for us and we just need to rest in his finished work Hebrews 4:11. :)
 
Guojing said:
True, but as I have replied to you earlier, he is not saying that those who are not willing to take up the cross, not willing to be crucified, are not saved and Jesus would deny them in heaven.

There is a vast difference between Gal 2:20 and that Matt 10 passage that you are using. That is what change of dispensation means.
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If you think we not taking the cross because taking the cross is the same with animal sacrifice, no longer need after Jesus die, it mean if you take the cross, you undermine the sacrifice of Jesus, by taking the cross you say that the sacrifice of Jesus is useless.

If so why Paul taking the cross?

It mean that your theory that taking the cross only for people before cross is wrong.
 
Guojing said:
You must find it difficult to accept that people have different interpretations of the Bible. Romans 14:5

If you want to bear the cross after you are saved, no one is stopping you from doing so. Other people believe that Jesus has finished all the works that is required for us and we just need to rest in his finished work Hebrews 4:11. :)
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Than why Paul did? Don't Paul know Jesus die for him mean do not need taking the cross?
 
Jackson123 said:
Than why Paul did? Don't Paul know Jesus die for him mean do not need taking the cross?
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I think you have not read my earlier reply to you about this. Let me paste here again for you to do so.

Yes, I agree with you that Paul was indeed martyred for Jesus but in my opinion, he would be horrified if he realized that you are now using this as a "criteria to see whether Jesus would accept or deny us in heaven".

For me, I don't really see that as a requirement for salvation. I would like to think that, as long as I keep renewing my mind to how much God loves me, I hope to eventually reach a stage like him when he said to his fellow believers in Philippians 1

23 [e]For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. 24 Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you. 25 And being confident of this, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy of faith,

Paul has reached a stage when he believed in his heart that death is really a blessing for him, but he stayed alive because the church needed him. I believe when he may have actually preach the gospel of grace to the one who was suppose to execute him, because he no longer have any fear of death.

Now that is the stage I am aiming towards. :)
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Guojing said:
I think you have not read my earlier reply to you about this. Let me paste here again for you to do so.
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Martyr is not require for salvation believe is. Take the cross is the manefestation of believe in Jesus

And I believe take the cross in matt 10 for Christian before and after Jesus die on the cross.

If you categorize the command of taking the cross as law of OT like animal sacrifice than why Paul who declare we are not under the law, practice taking the cross?
 
Jackson123 said:
Martyr is not require for salvation believe is. Take the cross is the manefestation of believe in Jesus
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You only need to believe to be saved, no works required.
But if you don't take up the cross, you are not really saved, because it shows you don't really believe.
Yet, you only need to believe to be saved, no works required.

This kind of reasoning to me is so circular, but if you are happy with it, so be it.
 
Guojing said:
You only need to believe to be saved, no works required.
But if you don't take up the cross, you are not really saved, because it shows you don't really believe.
Yet, you only need to believe to be saved, no works required.

This kind of reasoning to me is so circular, but if you are happy with it, so be it.
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If the branch abide to the vine it will bear fruit. You can not bear fruit of yourself
But if you do not bear fruit the branch will be cut and burn it is hell

John 15

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If branch not bear fruit, verse 6 say it will be burn into fire but you do not have ability to produce a fruit, all you need to do is abide to the vine.

The vine will produce the fruit for you.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love

Jesus die on the cross because of love, so die for others is the fruit of Holy Spirit, not selfishness

When you abide in Him, Holy Spirit in your heart, than like Paul say I am no longer life for myself, I will follow Jesus to love other, work for other and I believe Paul die/kill because preaching salvation

It mean he willing to die for other salvation.

Not in the sense like Jesus, jesus have power to forgive sin, Not paul

But die for other in the sense of :in order to make other know the way to salvation he willing to die.

Let me say one more time. Only the death of Jesus forgive our sin but the death of Paul and other martyr show the way how to be forgiven.

Taking the cross show Christ in his(Paul) heart

That is what I still learn to do, most my selfishness is stronger than my love, because I am still in the process Lear to take the cross. And only by abide in the vine I will do, branch only bear the fruit if he abide in the vine. The ability of produce the fruit is only belong to the vine.
 
Jesus take the cross, mean die for other. Jesus not selfish

In my opinion, take the cross mean love other to the point we ready to suffer for other.

Paul willing to be persecute in order to preach the gospel of salvation.

That mean Paul taking the cross. And Jesus command us to love other, He Comanche us to preach the gospel to all nation

The biggest love we can offer to other is if we able to show them the way to heaven.

Give food to the hungry is love, but the food that we give to them is only good for temporary, he will soon hungry again. If we show them the gospel of salvation, it will make them to be the richest man in the world to come. They will inherited heaven, worth more than what bill gate have.
 
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