Another look at John 10.
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Feel free to explain the following verse in the context.
Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
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I do believe OSAS, but all those words are in my vocabulary. And you didn't show me the post I asked about because it doesn't exist. For the record, I believe every true Christian will strive to be faithful, steadfast, persevere, and endure. But doing so in one's own strength will always lead to failure. Just as we can't save ourselves, neither can we keep ourselves saved. Being faithful and steadfast are not what we do to ensure that we are saved. They are what we do because we are saved. The same power that raised Jesus from the dead is at work in us. He is who keeps us going. He it is that strengthens us to carry on. He it is who will not let us fail.
You understand that salvation is wholly the work of God, but so is sanctification and glorification. Do you believe you can persevere better than God can persevere in and through you? Do you believe God grades on a curve based on effort or on actual righteousness? Do you believe that in your own strength and by your own endeavor you can please God? No one can. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. It is only as the righteous One lives in and through us that we live righteously. And it is the surety of Christ fulfilling the new covenant that guarantees our success.
You probably know the argument of the greater to the lesser. This is how Jesus argued in Matthew 6. God, having given us bodies, will give us the lesser things...food and clothing...to sustain the body. Likewise, God having spared not His own Son, will likewise give us all things...Romans 8:32.
The Beatles taught us all we need is love. God taught us all we need is Christ. Once we truly have Him, God will deliver all the lesser things to us. Jesus is the surety of this promise. Either you believe that He who has begun a good work in you will continue to perform it or you don't. I do believe this.
You understand that salvation is wholly the work of God, but so is sanctification and glorification. Do you believe you can persevere better than God can persevere in and through you? Do you believe God grades on a curve based on effort or on actual righteousness? Do you believe that in your own strength and by your own endeavor you can please God? No one can. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. It is only as the righteous One lives in and through us that we live righteously. And it is the surety of Christ fulfilling the new covenant that guarantees our success.
You probably know the argument of the greater to the lesser. This is how Jesus argued in Matthew 6. God, having given us bodies, will give us the lesser things...food and clothing...to sustain the body. Likewise, God having spared not His own Son, will likewise give us all things...Romans 8:32.
The Beatles taught us all we need is love. God taught us all we need is Christ. Once we truly have Him, God will deliver all the lesser things to us. Jesus is the surety of this promise. Either you believe that He who has begun a good work in you will continue to perform it or you don't. I do believe this.
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Agreed. And the "Christian" who is doing "good works" merely to save his own eternal skin, is someone trying to save their own life, of whom Jesus said, " He who would save his life shall lose it, but he who loses his life for my sake and the gospel shall be saved."
But the "Christian" who would not lose his life (i.e. deny himself) for Jesus' sake and the gospel because He has been convinced that trusting in the substitutionary death of Christ and adopting some of the stereotypical traits of religious christianity ensures immortality, is also someone who is saving their own life, and he will not saved it. He will lose it.
We must believe in both the death of Jesus for our sins and His resurrection for our justification, by which resurrection He was authorised to give us the promised Holy Spirit, who empowers us to will and do what pleases God. By Him we are able to put to death the deeds of the flesh, that the life of Jesus be manifest in us.
We cannot divorce doing righteousness from being saved, as if being saved from our sins by faith in Christ's death for us releases us from any responsibility to keep on being saved from temptations and sinning, doing good by faith in His Life in us.
It is possible to believe I could potentially lose my salvation by rejecting the Holy Spirit's power in my life, without the potential to lose salvation in this way driving me to do good works out of an attempt to save my own eternal skin. I can, instead, yield to the Holy Spirit because I want to be as much as possible like the Saviour who loved me and gave Himself for me, and the Holy Spirit has been placed in me to disciple me into conformity to Jesus, by empowering me both to will and do what pleases God.
But the "Christian" who would not lose his life (i.e. deny himself) for Jesus' sake and the gospel because He has been convinced that trusting in the substitutionary death of Christ and adopting some of the stereotypical traits of religious christianity ensures immortality, is also someone who is saving their own life, and he will not saved it. He will lose it.
We must believe in both the death of Jesus for our sins and His resurrection for our justification, by which resurrection He was authorised to give us the promised Holy Spirit, who empowers us to will and do what pleases God. By Him we are able to put to death the deeds of the flesh, that the life of Jesus be manifest in us.
We cannot divorce doing righteousness from being saved, as if being saved from our sins by faith in Christ's death for us releases us from any responsibility to keep on being saved from temptations and sinning, doing good by faith in His Life in us.
It is possible to believe I could potentially lose my salvation by rejecting the Holy Spirit's power in my life, without the potential to lose salvation in this way driving me to do good works out of an attempt to save my own eternal skin. I can, instead, yield to the Holy Spirit because I want to be as much as possible like the Saviour who loved me and gave Himself for me, and the Holy Spirit has been placed in me to disciple me into conformity to Jesus, by empowering me both to will and do what pleases God.
Cameron143 said:
Lucifer had the Spirit of God in him? He was a Christian? Born from above? Christ died for him?
PaulThomson said:
Probably.
Define Christian. "A little Christ"? Displaying Christlikeness? Probably.
Generated in heaven? Probably.
Possibly.
I have an open mind on the issues scripture is silent or guarded on. hence my use of probably, and possibly. I am not anxious about living with a degree of uncertainty.
Lucifer had the Spirit of God in him? He was a Christian? Born from above? Christ died for him?
PaulThomson said:
Probably.
Define Christian. "A little Christ"? Displaying Christlikeness? Probably.
Generated in heaven? Probably.
Possibly.
I have an open mind on the issues scripture is silent or guarded on. hence my use of probably, and possibly. I am not anxious about living with a degree of uncertainty.
It would be interesting to see whether that is unclear to everyone, or just to some, including yourself.
Would some other poster who thinks they understand my gist, like to paraphrase it for @Cameron143 ?
Would some other poster who thinks they understand my gist, like to paraphrase it for @Cameron143 ?
I said it is possible. The Son did not need to take on the form of angels, because he had already done that many times in the Old Testament appearing as the Angel of the Lord. Angel-likeness was already native to the Son.
Whether the cross could avail for angels, depends on how one sees the dynamics of the condescension, birth, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ effectuating our salvation. Substitutionary atonement model is only one fairly recent theory alongside quite a few others. I believe God is love and therefore by nature loves all his creatures, and desires the best possible relationship with each of them.
What do you think God's wrath is? Is it God Himself inflicting pain on creatures? Or is it possibly God handing over rebels into the hands of other rebels to get a taste of their own medicine?
Whether the cross could avail for angels, depends on how one sees the dynamics of the condescension, birth, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ effectuating our salvation. Substitutionary atonement model is only one fairly recent theory alongside quite a few others. I believe God is love and therefore by nature loves all his creatures, and desires the best possible relationship with each of them.
What do you think God's wrath is? Is it God Himself inflicting pain on creatures? Or is it possibly God handing over rebels into the hands of other rebels to get a taste of their own medicine?
Not everything God has ever done in regard to every creature is recorded in the Bible.
Jhn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Jhn 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
I am open to the POSSIBILITY that God has made some provision for devils to reconcile, based on the revelation of His overwhelming mercy shown to us. It is not a proposition I can conclusively prove, nor one that can be conclusively disproved. But my God is that merciful and kind that he could well accept the repentance of devils.
Jhn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Jhn 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
I am open to the POSSIBILITY that God has made some provision for devils to reconcile, based on the revelation of His overwhelming mercy shown to us. It is not a proposition I can conclusively prove, nor one that can be conclusively disproved. But my God is that merciful and kind that he could well accept the repentance of devils.