"Antichrist": Broad Deception By Narrow Definition

[Scribe]

I don't see the New Jerusalem as having foundations, walls and gates as being a problem for the city to be orbiting the earth. We're talking about God as the creator here, remember

Also, if the city was sitting on the earth, who could the nations walk by its light? Regarding the heavens 'ouranos' can refer to the visible heavens: the atmosphere, the sky, the starry heavens, the spiritual heavens.



If the above was true, then we could not know or believe in what the book of Revelation is saying. Regarding this, in the very first verse we read: "This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass." We can trust in what we are reading in regards to these descriptions. That said, I do not agree that the information contained in Revelation is theological concept. I believe that the descriptions given regarding the city with its dimensions and foundations are accurate and true. We can read about the New Jerusalem, but we can't truly understand the magnificence of it until we see it with our own eyes.

The revelation of Jesus Christ is about his coming (revelation to the world) it is not about explaining what heaven "looks" like.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
and also.. 2If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

These are some of the scriptures that tell us that what is revealed to us is from our earthly frame of reference. It can be compared to these things but it is not these things. For example there is no such thing as gold that is transparent but that is how it is described to our ability to comprehend things. So if you want to interpret it as literally gold, you still have to understand that it is not any gold on planet earth. It will be different and better than what we can imagine. You can interpret the leaves for the healing of the nations as literal healing but you would have to reconcile that with the fact that there will be no sickness, death or tears. In order to do that you end up with a MESSAGE behind the symbolism such as dependence on God. You can interpret that the gates are made of one pearl as meaning that there are oysters the size of mountains, but then there is no sea so it did not come from earth, Do we imagine where the oyster came from or do we comprehend the message behind the pearl gate? We can interpret the name of the apostles on the foundations and speculate about whether Paul gets one or we can interpret it as those who enter there are those who accepted the truth of the foundation of the apostles and prophets, and which 12 names are on the gates? Since we see a different list of tribes in the 144K than in other lists in the OT. But is that important? Or is there a message to the 12 foundations and the 12 gates. Is it a literal bride or is it made up of all of the redeemed and therefore a theological reference to a bride. Are there literal white robes or are these the righteous deeds of the saints? Does Jesus look like a Lamb that just got slaughtered or does he look like the vision in Rev 1 or are all of these symbolic of theological concepts? Miss the theological concepts in the symbolism and you've missed the message.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I think that you misread my post, because I never said, nor would I ever say, that the gathering of the church takes longer than a day. I said, the Day of the Lord is a collective phrase representing the period of God's wrath. The gathering of the church is not the Day of the Lord, but takes place prior to it.

My bad...seemed as though you were.

The Day of the Lord
Behold, the Day of the LORD is coming—cruel, with fury and burning anger—to make the earth a desolation and to destroy the sinners within it.

And, how is it that this does not take place at the Second Coming when Jeremiah and Peter (and others) plainly state that at the Second Coming this destruction does take place?

The gathering of the church = A blessed event when those living in Christ at the time of the resurrecting will be changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air, of which Paul said, "comfort each other with these words. Suffice to say, if the church was to go through the time of God's wrath, then it would be no blessed hope, nor could believers comfort each other regarding it, because we would be exposed to God's wrath the same as the wicked.

This is subjective reasoning...You're arguing that there's a limit to how much of God's wrath from which He can shield His people. God is a "consuming fire" which will burn up the atmosphere, the Earth, and everything in it when He comes "as a thief" (which means no seven last years of anything), right? 2 Thess. 2 says His glorious coming will destroy all wickedness, but did you Isaiah 33 says the RIGHTEOUS are going to dwell in this "devouring fire" and "everlasting burnings"? God's righteousness shields us from His evil-destroying glory.

There are many collective names and phrases in scripture representing many. Below are a few of them: The Day of the Lord = The period when God's wrath is poured out (it is not a literal day)

If all the time Jesus requires to create something is to just speak it, certainly it is even less time necessary for Him to destroy it in His "Day of the Lord".

"With a ho heave ho and a lusty yell,
They swung a beam and side wall fell.
I asked the man, Are these men skilled as the kind you'd hire if ya had to build?
He just laughed and said, no indeed, just common labor is all I need.
I can easily tear down in a day or two what skilled men took a year to do."

The Day of the Lord is a phrase covering the entire time period of when God's wrath is poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which couldn't possibly happen in a single day.

The 7 Churches, Seals, and Trumpets all began unfolding in John's day, as the Hebrew Chiastic Structure of Revelation demands -- also, Jesus is in the Holy Place when they begin to unfold, not in the Most Holy Place, which is where He will enter at the "time of the end" to cleanse the Heavenly Sanctuary in the antitypical Day of Atonement. Casting the Seals and Trumpets into the future destroys the Chiasm and totally disregards the prophetic time table of which Jesus' High Priestly ministry establishes.

The Day of the Lord is also called "the hour of trial" which is also not an hour in duration. The 5th trumpet alone is said to be five months long.

The Fifth Trumpet began to sound in history and is a prophecy of the rise of Islam and its horrible impact on Christianity. One Bible historian was able to accurately predict to the day the fall of the Byzantian Empire, an astounding feat which is inexplicable except by the Historicist interpretation of prophecy - therefore, the Fifth Trumpet's got nothing to do with the Day of the Lord.

Regarding the changing and gathering of the church, that event will take place in an 'atomos' which is defined as a period time to short to divide.The Lord's coming 'like a thief in the night" is referring to the event where the church is gathered, with the Day of the Lord to follow that event.

As for "the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our Gathering together unto Him", Paul plainly refers to the day these events come to pass in the singular ("...as that the day of Christ is at hand"; "...that day shall not come except..."). Jimmy Swaggart's Expositor's Bible has parenthetical statements inserted erroneously claiming "the day" as the Second Coming and "that day" as the Rapture...I think he found that Bible in that hotel room he used to go to all the time.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I do believe that this "person you are talking about Is going to be a Government official. Trump?

Nah, according to the established prophetic time line of Daniel, the Little Horn of Daniel 8 rises as "exceeding great" Rome - first attacking horizontally as Pagan Rome and then vertically as Papal Rome - right after the fall of "very great" He-goat Alexander the Great and "great" Ram, Medo-Persia.

 

[1christian1]

Nah, according to the established prophetic time line of Daniel, the Little Horn of Daniel 8 rises as "exceeding great" Rome - first attacking horizontally as Pagan Rome and then vertically as Papal Rome - right after the fall of "very great" He-goat Alexander the Great and "great" Ram, Medo-Persia.

Okay. First we had the Persian Empire, then the Roman Empire, The British Empire, now the American Empire. How does any of this have to do with the Pope?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Okay. First we had the Persian Empire, then the Roman Empire, The British Empire, now the American Empire. How does any of this have to do with the Pope?

The prophetic timeline begins with empire of Babylon, followed by Medo-Persia, Greece, then Rome, and then the Ten barbarian divisions of Rome, among which the Papacy arose. If we ignore this timeline, we can make the prophecies say whatever we want them to.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Those are the two horns like a lamb that you see. But his real agenda will be that of a dragon. The teachings of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC), is that the office of the pope has authority over all people or should have. Prior to 1798 the popes ruled over kings and their armies under the threat of excommunication. This authority is still valid according to their dogma. The only problem is, they currently have no power to enforce that desired authority. You ever hear of the inquisitions? Well, the popes and the RCC were the force behind all of them. They confiscated peoples property, threw them in prison, tortured them and also burned them. And this all because they would not bow to the pope and submit to Roman Catholicism. I would suggest that you read "Mystery Bablyon - the Woman Who Rides the beast: The Roman Catholic Church in the Last Days" by David Hunt. His book goes into much of the history of the RCC and its popes and ties her in wiith the woman of Revelation 17, that woman who rides the beast, which is that city who ruled over the kings of the earth and who sits on seven hills. She's a counterfeit church. And when that antichrist, those who are here will see the one with two horns like a lamb, yet speaks like a dragon. That book will open your eyes to the RCC, her popes and their true nature and purpose.

However, the time is coming when office of the pope and his false religious system will regain that power and more, which will be afforded by that ruler, the antichrist when he is revealed. The pope as the false prophet will be antichrist/beasts right hand man. All of those miracles, signs and wonders that he will be give power to do will be on behalf of the first beast/antichrist to give him credibility of his claim of being God. The beast receiving that fatal wound and surviving, will also be for the purpose of deceiving the inhabitants of the earth in support of his claim of being God.

So what you and everyone else is seeing is having two horns like that of a lamb, but his real agenda is that of a dragon.

I'll give you a hint: have you ever considered as to why there is an 82ft. Egyptian obelisk sitting out in front of what is supposed to be the true church? It was a pagan object of worship and could not possibly glorify God in any way. She (The woman) was dressed in purple and scarlet. These are the exact colors that Bishops and cardinals wear:

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In Rev.17, the angel told John that "the woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth." At the time that John was receiving this information, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. In addition, the angel said, "The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits." This is referring to the woman's headquarters, which is pointing us to the city where that false religious system would be based.

I would also suggest that you take a look at what the RCC teaches, because it is not the gospel. It's supposed to look like the gospel, but it is a counterfeit.

One inspired writer said Catholicism is satanic doctrine perfected in that it appeals both to the Legalist who desires to work for salvation through penance, alms giving, etc., but also to the Licensee who desires to live perpetually in iniquity yet periodically obtains forgiveness through the priest’s confessional. “It is a means of forgetting God that may pass as a means of remembering Him”.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Isn't the current pope unifying all the religions of the world? If so, is that Biblical?

Been happening for years. About 20 years ago, the pope cold on all the leaders of all the other religions to join together in condemnation of the Christian Fundamentalists because their efforts to convert people to Christianity are the equivalent of violence against those of other religions.

 

[Ahwatukee]

One inspired writer said Catholicism is satanic doctrine perfected in that it appeals both to the Legalist who desires to work for salvation through penance, alms giving, etc., but also to the Licensee who desires to live perpetually in iniquity yet periodically obtains forgiveness through the priest’s confessional. “It is a means of forgetting God that may pass as a means of remembering Him”.

I agree! With just a cursory look at Roman Catholicm's beliefs and practices and it becomes obviously apparent that she is not the church, but a counterfeit.

One red flag, which the over 1.2 billion Catholics do not take into consideration, is that Egyptian obelisk that is sitting out in St. Peter's square, which was brought to Rome by Caligula in 37 AD. It's like a giant Asherah pole, sitting out in the entrance for all to see. She's advertising who she is, but nobody is paying attention. It's no wonder that she is called Mystery, Babylon the Great. And that because within the RCC can be found most of the pagan practices which stemmed from the religious systems of ancient Babylon, such as 'Queen of heaven and Mother and Son worship for starters. And as you mentioned, their works-based salvation through the performing the various sacraments.

 

[Jackson123]

Been happening for years. About 20 years ago, the pope cold on all the leaders of all the other religions to join together in condemnation of the Christian Fundamentalists because their efforts to convert people to Christianity are the equivalent of violence against those of other religions.

CCC 841, quoting the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium 16, from Vatican II, declared:
The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

It seem this doctrine was since 1964 on second Vatican council