Anybody believe that Daniel's 70TH week has been fulfilled by Jesus - and then Stephen?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#1
It really frustrating that the dispensationalist view is almost universally adopted by every pastor in every church - when it comes to Daniel's 70 weeks and other prophecies in Daniel. Although there's a consensus that those 70 weeks are 490 years, and Jesus was the "Messiah the Prince" who appeared after the first 69 weeks, somehow the Antichrist is shoehorned in to fulfill the final week, and that is where the idea of 7 year tribulation comes from, despite the numerous other verses in Daniel and Revelation which indicate that it will only last for three and a half years. If anyone reads this passage of 9:24-27 FOR THE FIRST TIME without any presumption or such influence, is it crazy to have a natural impression, that these are 70 CONTINUOUS weeks, and all "he" is referring to the same Messiah?

Actually, that had always been the historic view of this prophecy that Jesus had fulfilled all 70 weeks until the popularization of dispensationalism in late 1800s!

Now allow me to elaborate a bit. I'm not a KJV only person, KJV is not perfect, but for this specific prophecy, you must use KJV 'cuz this part is subtlely corrupted in modern versions. In KJV, Daniel 9:27 reads:

"And he shall CONFIRM the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and FOR the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

First of all, in 9:25, notice that the first 7 and 62 weeks are deliberately separated, this implies that these are not only 70 x 7 years, but also 10 x 49 jubilee cycles. Jews returned to their homeland and rebuild Jerusalem, that perfectly fulfilled the description of jubilee in Lev. 25. Therefore the 70th week is a part of last jubilee cycle, it shouldn't be separated from the 64th-69th weeks.

I'm not gonna dive in to the nitty gritties of the six goals in 9:24, you can read the links below for that. Here I just wanna point out two words in 9:27 - CONFIRM and FOR. Although Jesus did make a new covenant, He FULFILLED the old covenant of salvation by offering Himself as the ultimate sacrifice, that's why He legally caused "sacrifice and the oblation to cease". See Heb. 9b and 10a for a better understanding.

https://christianitybeliefs.org/end...ed-daniel-924-during-the-70th-week-of-daniel/
https://age2come.com/why-daniels-70-weeks-are-fulfilled/
https://www.mikeblume.com/nogap.htm

Then notice the wording in the next sentence: FOR the overspreading of abominations. This indicates that He didn't cause any abomination, the abomination is ALREADY in there, and FOR that He shall make it desolate as a punishment. This was fulfilled when He cleansed the temple and declared that "Your house shall be left DESOLATE." The sacking of Jerusalem in 70AD was the final "consummation" of that judgement.

On top of all these, this interpretation will reveal to you some crucial information:

- Jesus's ministry lasted exactly 3.5 years;
- Since He was crucified on Passover, dial back 3.5 years is the Feast of Tabernacle, that's when He was really born;
- Dial back 9 months further, you get Hanukkah, that's when He was conceived;
- The Great Tribulation only lasts 3.5 years as Antichrist's "ministry", which is the antithesis of Jesus's

Now what about the second half of the 70th week? Although there's no solid proof in the Scripture, it is reasonable to assume that the stoning of Stephen marked the end. That was a turning point. They were given 3.5 years to repent, and many did at the Pentecost (Acts 2:37-38), but apparently the Pharisees didn't. When Stephen was stoned, that sealed their fate, from there on the gospel was shifted to the Gentiles.

And by the way, just to be clear, I'm no preterist or idealist. There will an Antichrist, which was described in bloody details in 11:36-45 and the entire chapter 12, that's what "abomination of desolation" is really referring to in the Olivet Discourse.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,946
1,269
113
Australia
#3
It really frustrating that the dispensationalist view is almost universally adopted by every pastor in every church - when it comes to Daniel's 70 weeks and other prophecies in Daniel.
i agree.
Futurism will find a way to twist simple truth to fit their wrong beliefs. They need to adopt error or futurism does not work.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#4
And by the way, just to be clear, I'm no preterist or idealist. There will an Antichrist, which was described in bloody details in 11:36-45 and the entire chapter 12, that's what "abomination of desolation" is really referring to in the Olivet Discourse.
I agree with you on this part (and a few other parts which I will quote from your post, below), but I have a couple of questions about how you're seeing this (Dan11:36 thru chpt 12-end) as totaling only 3.5 years,

...especially when 12:1,[6,7... not to mention v.11] answers only to the latter part/half (what is considered the SECOND HALF of the "7 yr period" or "the GREAT tribulation" Rev7:14/Matt24:[15,]21)... whereas, the parts in Dan11:36 (for several verses) refers to what is considered the FIRST HALF (that which takes place before the MID-POINT and SECOND HALF which is spelled out in chpt 12).



- Jesus's ministry lasted exactly 3.5 years;
fairly agree... but then again, we know that Dan9 said He would "be CUT OFF and have nothing [/or, 'but not for himself,' as some translations have it]" (which occurred at His [arrest / trials ]/ the Cross... "after" the 62 Weeks [69 Weeks total], which concluded ON what we call Palm Sunday, when He SAID the Lk19:41-44 thing and DID the Zech9:9 thing... each of these having to do with "the city [/ Jerusalem," the Subject of the Dan9:24-27 prophecy)
- Since He was crucified on Passover, dial back 3.5 years is the Feast of Tabernacle, that's when He was really born;
Agreed. I do believe (among other reasons) that this is also what John 1:14 refers to where it says, "And the Word was made flesh and TABERNACLED among us"
- Dial back 9 months further, you get Hanukkah, that's when He was conceived;
Agreed.
- The Great Tribulation only lasts 3.5 years as Antichrist's "ministry", which is the antithesis of Jesus's
Agreed that "the GREAT tribulation" refers ONLY to what takes place AFTER the "AOD [singular / singular; Dan12:11/Matt24:15]" (and lasts only 3.5 yrs); but I disagree that this is when the AC's "whose COMING / ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / parousia" (2Th2:9a) takes place (as though starting at that same AOD [MID-point] / GREAT tribulation [starting-]point in the chronology)... no...there will be MUCH that PRECEDES that AOD / GREAT Trib point which also involves him (the AC / man of sin), per each of the related passages covering this, which I won't go into here. = )


So we agree on much... but disagree on a few other points. = )
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#5
i agree.
Futurism will find a way to twist simple truth to fit their wrong beliefs. They need to adopt error or futurism does not work.

Actually I'm still mostly a futurist, just in the minority of post-trib camp. Besides I believe that Revelation is not narrated in a chronological order, at least 7 trumpets and 7 bowls are the same, and all mentions of 3.5 years are referring to the same 3.5 year period.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#6
It really frustrating that the dispensationalist view is almost universally adopted by every pastor in every church - when it comes to Daniel's 70 weeks and other prophecies in Daniel. Although there's a consensus that those 70 weeks are 490 years, and Jesus was the "Messiah the Prince" who appeared after the first 69 weeks, somehow the Antichrist is shoehorned in to fulfill the final week, and that is where the idea of 7 year tribulation comes from, despite the numerous other verses in Daniel and Revelation which indicate that it will only last for three and a half years.
It is really frustrating when Christians cannot connect the dots and make a big fuss over Dispensationalism. So try connecting the dots. Messiah the Prince is the exact opposite of "the prince that shall come".

How could Daniel's 70th week have been already fulfilled when "everlasting righteousness" has not been established on earth, and sin and evil are presently rampant?
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,834
4,320
113
mywebsite.us
#7
How could Daniel's 70th week have been already fulfilled when "everlasting righteousness" has not been established on earth, and sin and evil are presently rampant?
Because the list of things in Daniel 9:24 are not 'Second Coming' or 'New Jerusalem' events; rather, they are things that were accomplished by the ministry, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,834
4,320
113
mywebsite.us
#8
It is really frustrating when Christians cannot connect the dots...
It is really frustrating when Christians cannot connect the dots ... because they do not properly understand the dots they are trying to connect - and, therefore, invent dots that are not even there - so that they can construct something that makes sense to them.

It is far better to throw away that construct and seek to understand what Daniel 9:24-27 is actually saying.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#9
I agree with you on this part (and a few other parts which I will quote from your post, below), but I have a couple of questions about how you're seeing this (Dan11:36 thru chpt 12-end) as totaling only 3.5 years,

...especially when 12:1,[6,7... not to mention v.11] answers only to the latter part/half (what is considered the SECOND HALF of the "7 yr period" or "the GREAT tribulation" Rev7:14/Matt24:[15,]21)... whereas, the parts in Dan11:36 (for several verses) refers to what is considered the FIRST HALF (that which takes place before the MID-POINT and SECOND HALF which is spelled out in chpt 12).
There's no first half and second half. 12:1 begins with "At that time”, that's still the same "time of trouble". You know in the original script there was no such divisions of chapters. The difference is that 11:36-45 is describing the Antichrist, while chapter 12 is about God's grace and protection of His people during this time.

Also, although Jesus said that "No one knows the day or the hour", it's not hard to figure out that His return is set on a Day of Atonement in a sabbatical year right before a jubilee. 75 days after that is Hanukkah, which is the re-dedication of the Temple, and then you got 1260+75=1335 days. About the 1290 days, though, I'm still not sure what the extra month is about.

How could Daniel's 70th week have been already fulfilled when "everlasting righteousness" has not been established on earth, and sin and evil are presently rampant?
Theologically speaking, His death paid the PENALTY of sin and brought forth a spiritual garment of RIGHTEOUSNESS that is washed white with His blood. That's corroborated by the description of the tribulation saints, his rebuke of the lukewarm Laodicea church about their spiritual nakedness, and the wedding feast parable. Without His everlasting righteousness, none of these could be possible.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
1,381
434
83
31
Anacortes, WA
#12
Messiah the Prince is the exact opposite of "the prince that shall come
Agreed.
““after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing,
and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary...and he will make a covenant with the many for 1 week.” (Daniel 9:26-27)

The "people of the prince" destroyed Jerusalem in A.D. 70.
Jesus is not the prince of those people; the Romans are not the people of Jesus.

He is also mentioned in Dan 8:23-25, 11:36-45.
 
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
#13
Because the list of things in Daniel 9:24 are not 'Second Coming' or 'New Jerusalem' events; rather, they are things that were accomplished by the ministry, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
I believe that Daniel 9's 70 weeks were contiguous -

https://archive.org/details/daniel-...ous-consecutive-7-years/mode/1up?view=theater

I also believe that Daniel 9 is all about Jesus, the very answer to Daniel's and all our prayers -

https://archive.org/details/daniel-...-prince-that-shall-come/mode/1up?view=theater
 
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
#14
Agreed.
““after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing,
and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary...and he will make a covenant with the many for 1 week.” (Daniel 9:26-27)

The "people of the prince" destroyed Jerusalem in A.D. 70.
Jesus is not the prince of those people; the Romans are not the people of Jesus.
Read a little further in context and see their inherent parallelism and language specifically used - https://archive.org/details/daniel-...-prince-that-shall-come/mode/1up?view=theater

It all refers to Jesus.
 
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
#16
Actually I'm still mostly a futurist, just in the minority of post-trib camp. Besides I believe that Revelation is not narrated in a chronological order, at least 7 trumpets and 7 bowls are the same, and all mentions of 3.5 years are referring to the same 3.5 year period.
Perhaps you might consider the following:

https://archive.org/details/michael...ed-7-branch-candlestick/mode/1up?view=theater

Bowls and Trumpets are not the same. They parallel however with Trumpets being mixed with mercy until the 7 last plagues which are without mercy. The 7 bowls are in the 7th trumpet, see Revelation 11:15,18. Read Joshua 5-7.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#17
Agreed.
““after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing,
and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary...and he will make a covenant with the many for 1 week.” (Daniel 9:26-27)

The "people of the prince" destroyed Jerusalem in A.D. 70.
Jesus is not the prince of those people; the Romans are not the people of Jesus.

He is also mentioned in Dan 8:23-25, 11:36-45.
Neither is Titus. He was no prince, and He didn't set his image in the temple.

Actually, there's a historic caveat. Titus ordered the soldiers to NOT touch the temple, he intended to PRESERVE it, but he lost control, his soldiers did it anyway, leaving "not one stone upon another". That's the will of God, not Titus.

Dan. 8 and 11 mostly cover Seleucus, Antiochus and the final Antichrist, only Dan. 9 is about Jesus. You have to put it in the broad context of Dan. 9. Jesus said, if you ask for a fish, will he give you a serpent? Daniel prayed for deliverance, would God give him Satan at the end?
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
678
420
63
#18
Jesus's ministry lasted exactly 3.5 years;
- Since He was crucified on Passover, dial back 3.5 years is the Feast of Tabernacle, that's when He was really born;-
This statement confused me↓

By your calculations we should dial back 33.5 not 3.5.... is that just misprint or am I misinterpreting what you are saying?


Not trying to throw you off but what would the following information do to your calculations.

*For a couple reasons I believe that 1.5 years is more accurate than 3.5

*I have him born on 1 Tishri 3BC between 6:18pm and 7:39pm Palestine time…. which is the First day of the festival of the Feast of Trumpets corresponding to our September 11.

I believe it is a more accurate birthdate, which…. unless you want it, I will not post…it’s a bit long.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#19
By your calculations we should dial back 33.5 not 3.5.... is that just misprint or am I misinterpreting what you are saying?
Yeah, it should be 33.5 years. Sorry, my bad.

However, the same conclusion can be reached based on the clues in Luke 1-2. John the Baptist was conceived when Zechariah finished his duty at the temple and went home. Since he was of the 8th division of Abijah, that's in late Sivan, about a week after Pentacost. 6 months after that Jesus was conceived in Mary. Do the math, and you get Hanukkah.