Apologetics: witnessing to atheists

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GWH said:
No, I showed you that faith is an act of will (not a meritorious work BTW) that must agree with God's will (to accept Jesus as Messiah and Lord) in order to be salvific or effective in prayer (thy will be done).

I have also noted that those who are fallible cannot have absolute or infallible certainty.
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Those who are fallible are supposed to be walking in the Spirit who is not fallible. Pretty sure He deals in certainty.
All the other gobblygook is ancillary to what I stated concerning faith. By definition, faith is certainty that the God who promised will perform what He has promised. For example, either Jesus will never leave us or forsake us, or He will. Faith knows He won't despite what circumstances may suggest.
Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for and the EVIDENCE of things not seen. Faith deals with substance and evidence, and not the lack of substance and lack of evidence.
 
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Cameron143 said:
Those who are fallible are supposed to be walking in the Spirit who is not fallible. Pretty sure He deals in certainty.
All the other gobblygook is ancillary to what I stated concerning faith. By definition, faith is certainty that the God who promised will perform what He has promised. For example, either Jesus will never leave us or forsake us, or He will. Faith knows He won't despite what circumstances may suggest.
Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for and the EVIDENCE of things not seen. Faith deals with substance and evidence, and not the lack of substance and lack of evidence.
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No, not until we go to heaven will we attain perfection or certainty, so “pretty sure” is the best we can say now and “confidence” is a more accurate understanding than certainty and “evidence” is not proof and “believe” is better than know—even for the pope.
 
GWH said:
No, not until we go to heaven will we attain perfection or certainty, so “pretty sure” is the best we can say now and “confidence” is a more accurate understanding than certainty and “evidence” is not proof and “believe” is better than know—even for the pope.
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If you do not believe Jesus, who do you believe?

John6-37s.png

John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
:)
 
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Magenta said:
If you do not believe Jesus, who do you believe?

John6-37s.png

John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
:)
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Pretty sure I indicated belief in Jesus and belief that we are no more infallible than other Christians and no more special than others who believe and become elect.
 
GWH said:
No, not until we go to heaven will we attain perfection or certainty, so “pretty sure” is the best we can say now and “confidence” is a more accurate understanding than certainty and “evidence” is not proof and “believe” is better than know—even for the pope.
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Wow. Believing God is evidence of knowing God. And knowing God is the substance of eternal life. I'm not simply confident that I have a relationship with God; I know I am in Christ. Do you wonder or are confident you are in a relationship with your wife? Faith isn't not knowing; it's knowing that doesn't come through our natural senses. It's spiritual certainty.
 
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GWH said:
Pretty sure I indicated belief in Jesus and belief that we are no more infallible than other Christians and no more special than others who believe and become elect.
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I hope you don't expect everyone to read every single post of yours before they ever say anything to you. And something you have just said indicates that you've lied about one or the other. Your motives are suspect.
 
Cameron143 said:
Wow. Believing God is evidence of knowing God. And knowing God is the substance of eternal life. I'm not simply confident that I have a relationship with God; I know I am in Christ. Do you wonder or are confident you are in a relationship with your wife? Faith isn't not knowing; it's knowing that doesn't come through our natural senses. It's spiritual certainty.
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Apparently some people do not possess that and then they feel justified making fun of those who do.
 
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Cameron143 said:
Wow. Believing God is evidence of knowing God. And knowing God is the substance of eternal life. I'm not simply confident that I have a relationship with God; I know I am in Christ. Do you wonder or are confident you are in a relationship with your wife? Faith isn't not knowing; it's knowing that doesn't come through our natural senses. It's spiritual certainty.
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You are no more certain of salvation than any other finite, fallible and sinful saint, no matter how hard you may try to delude yourself. We ALL walk by faith. If we were absolutely sure, then we wouldn’t need any faith!
 
Magenta said:
I hope you don't expect everyone to read every single post of yours before they ever say anything to you. And something you have just said indicates that you've lied about one or the other. Your motives are suspect.
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I have no idea what you’re talking about, but I suspect you have a divisive and judgmental attitude.
 
GWH said:
You are no more certain of salvation than any other finite, fallible and sinful saint, no matter how hard you may try to delude yourself. We ALL walk by faith. If we were absolutely sure, then we wouldn’t need any faith!
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You don't understand faith.
 
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GWH said:
I have no idea what you’re talking about, but I suspect you have a divisive and judgmental attitude.
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Yeah, I have seen yours. When are you going to start doing the thing you said you would do at least
a week ago? Perhaps you have no idea what I'm talking about there, either, even though they are things
you said. You say one thing and then the opposite, both cannot be true. Maybe you'll figure it out. Maybe not.
 
GWH said:
You are no more certain of salvation than any other finite, fallible and sinful saint, no matter how hard you may try to delude yourself. We ALL walk by faith. If we were absolutely sure, then we wouldn’t need any faith!
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Do you really believe this?!
 
Magenta said:
Yeah, I have seen yours. When are you going to start doing the thing you said you would do at least a week ago? Perhaps you have no idea what I'm talking about there, either, even though they are things
you said. You say one thing and then the opposite, both cannot be true. Maybe you'll figure it out. Maybe not.
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Not. A week ago? I am lucky if I remember what I posted yesterday. But I do seem to remember sharing with you the basis for Christian fellowship/judgment that you seem to have forgotten, so here it is again:

The kerygma/GRFS should be every Christian’s creed, and only belief in this crucial truth should be viewed as a test for orthodoxy or heresy. As Paul wrote in Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines. (If any judgment is made, it should begin with a self-examination per MT 7:1&5, 2CR 13:5-8).

A major reason many Christians throughout history have not manifested the love and unity of God’s Spirit (EPH 4:3) as well as they should is because of failure to realize this truth. If they did, it would free them to speak honestly and fellowship without becoming unduly upset about relatively minor issues. They would receive God’s blessing as peacemakers, who draw inclusive circles around people based on the kerygma rather than denominational lines between them due to didachaic differences. Jesus prayed for spiritual unity (cf. JN 17:20-23, “May they be one…”).

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:
  1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
  2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) when they reject God’s salvation or DOD (JN 3:18).
  3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ or the way (means of providing salvation) that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11), although pre-NT truthseekers could/can learn a proto-gospel via general revelation combined with conscience.
  4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
  5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).
 
Aaron56 said:
Do you really believe this?!
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Yes, I believe 2CR 5:7,-8a "We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident...". You don't?
You change it to say, "We live by proof, not by faith, We are absolutely certain..."?
That sounds like something a pope would say.
 
GWH said:
You are no more certain of salvation than any other finite, fallible and sinful saint, no matter how hard you may try to delude yourself. We ALL walk by faith. If we were absolutely sure, then we wouldn’t need any faith!
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1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
 
Sipsey said:
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
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Yes, believe it! I doubt JN 5:13 means to be self-contradictory. Thus, "know" in the context you posted must mean "be assured" or "have confidence", NOT that you have papal infallibility and no longer are finite, fallible and sinful, in need of faith.
 
GWH said:
Yes, believe it! I doubt JN 5:13 means to be self-contradictory. Thus, "know" in the context you posted must mean "be assured" or "have confidence", NOT that you have papal infallibility and no longer are finite, fallible and sinful, in need of faith.
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Your argument is with the plain sense of Scripture. The Pope has no more authority with God than you or I. God is no respector of persons. Look up the Greek for Know as used where I posted. If you don’t truly know Jesus, then you indeed can not know if you have eternal life, or not.
 
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Sipsey said:
Your argument is with the plain sense of Scripture. The Pope has no more authority with God than you or I. God is no respector of persons. Look up the Greek for Know as used where I posted. If you don’t truly know Jesus, then you indeed can not know if you have eternal life, or not.
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That is MY point, so I guess we agree. TTYL :^)
 
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