Applying God's Word to Politics

[AFreeman]

Acts 5:29-33
5:29 Then Peter and the [other] Apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
5:31 Him hath God exalted with His right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
5:32 And we are His witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that OBEY Him.
5:33 When they heard [that], they were cut [to the heart], and took counsel to slay them.

 

[AFreeman]

Matthew 5:17-20
5:17 Think NOT that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am NOT come to destroy, but to fulfill [to fully preach The Law (The Torah) and fulfill the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah].
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till ALL be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of heaven (the lowest of the low in God's Eyes): but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in The Kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness] of the lawyers (scribes) and politicians (pharisees), ye shall in no case enter into The Kingdom of heaven*.

*no lawyer or politician has any hope of entering the Kingdom of heaven unless they repent of their sinful/evil/unlawful/criminal ways and returns to keeping God's Law/Commandments

 

[Suze]

I think the Christian or right thing is to invite folks into our country in a vetted manner just as we invite people into our home.

We need to remember that nothing is ours , not the land or our homes or anything . The Kingdom of God will b ours if we don't get too entangled in this world .

 

[GWH]

We need to remember that nothing is ours , not the land or our homes or anything . The Kingdom of God will b ours if we don't get too entangled in this world .

So give your stuff away if you want and become a beggar,
but remember that nothing is theirs either, so
I prefer to be a good steward of God's blessings in this world.

 

[PAC-fit]

We need to remember that nothing is ours , not the land or our homes or anything . The Kingdom of God will b ours if we don't get too entangled in this world .

You know, GWH is showing us a good precept here 'Suze'. For I was dogged a long time with the mindset of 'all God's way and substance forever'. I mean like for an extended duration. But that does conflict with a couple of passages, Jesus could be viewed as near destitute of things while on earth in our quest to follow Him yet, asked the believing world; Which of you, wishing to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost to see if he has the resources to complete it? But one of my more practical favorites is Paul's question; Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in?

So goes our place before the Master to be the good steward; Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my return I would have received it back with interest, , For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

 

[GWH]

Agreed. It's important to use different synonyms in order to accommodate culture and tradition.

Where's Eli? I have not noticed his posts since this one.
Hope everything is okay and you are just busy or bored with CC.

 

[Eli1]

Where's Eli? I have not noticed his posts since this one.
Hope everything is okay and you are just busy or bored with CC.

Hey sailor.
I'm here and i'm posting on other threads.
One day, when you learn more about computers you might even participate.

 

[GWH]

Hey sailor.
I'm here and i'm posting on other threads.
One day, when you learn more about computers you might even participate.

Okay, glad to here it.
Computers are typewriters with better editing capability.

 

[GWH]

Perhaps there would be less hesitance regarding the relationship between GW and politics
if the title of this thread had been "Applying politics to GW?"

Anyway, my perception is that the Dems apply Marx and Alinsky's words to politics,
whereas MAGA seeks to season society with GW per Matt. 5:13-16 and 6:10.

 

[GWH]

Did Pope Francis apply GW to politics?

 

[PaulThomson]

P

Perhaps there would be less hesitance regarding the relationship between GW and politics
if the title of this thread had been "Applying politics to GW?"

Anyway, my perception is that the Dems apply Marx and Alinsky's words to politics,
whereas MAGA seeks to season society with GW per Matt. 5:13-16 and 6:10.

Politics is simply the ways in which societies can organise themselves. The whole Bible is about politics. Trying to separate one's Christianity from politics is to try to invent a non-transformational Christianity, which is an oxymoron.

 

[GWH]

P

Politics is simply the ways in which societies can organise themselves. The whole Bible is about politics. Trying to separate one's Christianity from politics is to try to invent a non-transformational Christianity, which is an oxymoron.

Yes, but because God's method of conversion is persuasion, society should have freedom to disagree about doctrines
such as murder, stealing and physical assault, and even the details regarding how to punish murderers, thieves and assaulters
may be debatable: eye for eye, imprisonment, monetary restitution, etc.

Also, because even saints are fallible, society should not presume to be a theocracy or even a popecracy.

 

[PaulThomson]

Yes, but because God's method of conversion is persuasion, society should have freedom to disagree about doctrines
such as murder, stealing and physical assault, and even the details regarding how to punish murderers, thieves and assaulters
may be debatable: eye for eye, imprisonment, monetary restitution, etc.

Also, because even saints are fallible, society should not presume to be a theocracy or even a popecracy.

Democracies and constitutional republics are organised so that reperesentative are elected to set standards for society via legislation. It is perfectly fair that the cohort elected impose laws on the people as they see fit, and the people can either accept the laws and vote the reps back in, or reject the laws and vote them out. At which point the new cohort can change the laws people objected to. If those laws happen to be Bible-based because the majority of the elected cohort judge justice by biblical standards, that's elected representation at work. People are free to disagree with the Bible-based laws enacted, but they are required to follow them or suffer the sanctions provided in law for those who don't, until they can vote in a new cohort who will change the laws to laws of their liking. If people vote in a theocracy for a term to try it out, that's okay. AS long as they can vote it out in the next election, if the majority choose.

 

[GWH]

Democracies and constitutional republics are organised so that reperesentative are elected to set standards for society via legislation. It is perfectly fair that the cohort elected impose laws on the people as they see fit, and the people can either accept the laws and vote the reps back in, or reject the laws and vote them out. At which point the new cohort can change the laws people objected to. If those laws happen to be Bible-based because the majority of the elected cohort judge justice by biblical standards, that's elected representation at work. People are free to disagree with the Bible-based laws enacted, but they are required to follow them or suffer the sanctions provided in law for those who don't, until they can vote in a new cohort who will change the laws to laws of their liking. If people vote in a theocracy for a term to try it out, that's okay. AS long as they can vote it out in the next election, if the majority choose.

Your statement is okay, but it needs to be noted that the majority may be wrong and even dictatorial,
so your final caveat is crucial. Election integrity is necessary.

 

[SirSolaScriptura]

I am always reticent to mix faith and politics for our Lord said,
"Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar 's, and to God the things that are God 's." (Matthew 22:21)

The rise of Politicanity (Christian Politics) in the US or rather Resurgent Byzantiumism bothers me immensely'; in Byzantium (Eastern Roman Empire, Modern Turkey), Politics/State and The Church were one in the Emperor who appointed bishops and controlled the army and collected taxes. This is a very dangerous blend, and why The West separated the two, and did not let kings or emperors in Europe assert power over the Bishops, and the head of the Bishops known as the Pope. In that respect the Papacy guarded the Church of the Middle Ages against The State controlling the Church, but of course abuses and rot came in anyways.

"On the Other Hand" as Tavia in Fiddler On The Roof says. We do have an obligation to vote for our values. Will we not be held accountable by Jesus for voting to save the unborn, protecting the Church, and so forth? In that respect I believe it behooves us to vote with help of the Holy Spirit. Though I fear allowing politics too much of a in roads in the Church, lest be return to Byzantium under The Emperor who controls Church and State.

 

[GWH]

I am always reticent to mix faith and politics for our Lord said,
"Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar 's, and to God the things that are God 's." (Matthew 22:21)

The rise of Politicanity (Christian Politics) in the US or rather Resurgent Byzantiumism bothers me immensely'; in Byzantium (Eastern Roman Empire, Modern Turkey), Politics/State and The Church were one in the Emperor who appointed bishops and controlled the army and collected taxes. This is a very dangerous blend, and why The West separated the two, and did not let kings or emperors in Europe assert power over the Bishops, and the head of the Bishops known as the Pope. In that respect the Papacy guarded the Church of the Middle Ages against The State controlling the Church, but of course abuses and rot came in anyways.

"On the Other Hand" as Tavia in Fiddler On The Roof says. We do have an obligation to vote for our values. Will we not be held accountable by Jesus for voting to save the unborn, protecting the Church, and so forth? In that respect I believe it behooves us to vote with help of the Holy Spirit. Though I fear allowing politics too much of a in roads in the Church, lest be return to Byzantium under The Emperor who controls Church and State.

Re ""Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar 's, and to God the things that are God 's." (Matthew 22:21):

This means we should glorify God for good governors (Rom. 13:1-5),
and resist laws that contradict divine moral will (Acts 5:29).

 

[GWH]

On another topic, I was reminded that yesterday was the anniversary of US losing the Vietnam War, which gets me started:

Mistake #1 – Supporting the French in 1945 when it tried to reassert its subjugation of Viet Nam.

Mulligan #1 – Support the Viet Minh’s attempt to liberate the colony, thereby preventing or obviating the need of Ho Chi Minh to seek communist support.

Mistake #2 – After Vietnam was divided by the Geneva Accords in 1954, allowing the South to reject elections and then the North to infiltrate until we joined the war in 1965.

Mulligan #2 – Instead of maximizing casualties by gradually escalating or increasing our military effort and secretly trying to prevent infiltration from Cambodia and Laos, surge military support along the entire border in 1955, and bomb invaders immediately (cf. The Korean War). Then recall General MacArthur to lead the conquest of the North (preparing to bomb Chinese invaders if necessary–i.e., they did not learn from the Korean War).

IOW, give the enemy PTSD.

 

[SirSolaScriptura]

Re ""Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar 's, and to God the things that are God 's." (Matthew 22:21):

This means we should glorify God for good governors (Rom. 13:1-5),
and resist laws that contradict divine moral will (Acts 5:29).

Well actually Render to Cesar and to God, means to give to each the proper thing they deserve. Mixing the two can actually cause you not to do either, some may resist paying taxes to Cesar out of some idea that they owe none cuz of Kingdom of the Heaven, or they became so absorbed in the Politics of Cesar's Senate they neglect God.

Overlapping them is very dangerous.

 

[GWH]

Well actually Render to Cesar and to God, means to give to each the proper thing they deserve. Mixing the two can actually cause you not to do either, some may resist paying taxes to Cesar out of some idea that they owe none cuz of Kingdom of the Heaven, or they became so absorbed in the Politics of Cesar's Senate they neglect God.

Overlapping them is very dangerous.

Well, we should do both rather than neither.