Are all works bad?

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Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
667
223
43
#1
Most religious people think ALL works are bad. Actually, the Bible talks about both BAD works and GOOD works. Let’s start with the bad works first.
BAD WORKS
EPHESIANS 2:9- “…not of works lest anyone should BOAST.” What are “boastful” works? I suppose those are works that originate with man—his works—that he thinks up himself. They can’t be from God because Luke 17:10 tells us that when we have done what God commands us to do, we cannot boast about it because we have only done OUR DUTY.
GALATIONS 2:16- says, “ We are not justified by “WORKS OF THE LAW.” These are also bad works, in the sense that they will not save us. The entire book of Galations is mostly talking about these kind of works.
Galations 5:19- another kind of bad works is WORKS OF THE FLESH.

GOOD WORKS
JAMES 2:14:-26- talks about many different kinds of “GOOD WORKS.” Some were charitable, such as giving food and clothes to the needy;but also such GOOD WORKS as obeying the commands of God. Those are called GOOD WORKS and he uses the example of Abraham offering his son Issac as a sacrifice. So obeying God’s commandments are GOOD WORKS that James says we are JUSTIFIED by these kinds of works. It’s very important to see that knowing what KIND OF WORKS makes all the difference in understanding the scriptures properly. Because in one scripture, the Bible says we are NOT justified by “works” (Ephesians 2:9) and in another scripture the Bible says we ARE justified by works ( James 2:24). Someone could easily argue that the Bible contradicts itself. Not so. It is imperative that we understand WHAT KIND OF WORKS are being discussed in each passage.

One other kind of GOOD WORKS that saves us are the WORKS OF GOD in John 6:28-29. Jesus’s disciples said to Him, “ What must we do to WORK. the WORKS OF GOD? This verse clearly tells us that there ARE things we must do. The disciples knew this and Jesus confirms it. Jesus said, “This is the WORK OF GOD THAT YOU BELIEVE in Him whom He sent.” Jesus says that believing is a WORK!! But it is one of the GOOD works that are from God and are part of our salvation. There are other scriptures that tell us that faith is a work—one is in 2 Thess. 1:11–“ THE WORK OF FAITH…”. The crucial question here is…do you believe the Bible? Do you believe what God said? If Faith is a work, and I don’t doubt it because Jesus says that it is, then that makes “repentance a WORK OF GOD, too and “CONFESSION” IS A WORK OF GOD; and “BAPTISM” is a WORK OF GOD. They are “works” of God because they originated with God—not man—and they are all commanded by God. They are HIS works—not man’s works. Isn’t this exactly what Jesus asked the Jews in Mark 11:30? He said, “John’s baptism—was it from heaven or from men?” They would not answer. They knew if they said, “From heaven.” He would say then why haven’t you obeyed it? Well, if John’s baptism was from heaven, how much more the baptism of Jesus the Messiah!

So, to the followers of John Calvin who want to say that we are NOT SAVED BY WORKS—actuallly, we. ARE! We are saved by DOING the WORKS OF GOD. because Jesus said FAITH IS A WORK and we all agree that faith is necessary to be saved. And to those same people who say baptism is a WORK, you are right!! It is a WORK OF GOD—it came from God-not man, and it was commanded by God (Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:48). So when you say. “ we are not saved by works.” It is important that you identify which works. Because ABSOLUTELY we are NOT saved by “boastful works” or “works of the old law of Moses” and certainly not by “works of the flesh. BUT We ARE Isaved by the WORKS OF GOD.
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
667
223
43
#3
And you know that that is just nonsense. Some works are bad and others are good. But good works do not save anyone.
I gave scripture showing that they do. Where is your scripture showing that they do NOT?
James 2:24 says you are wrong.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,101
30,227
113
#4

Acts 10:43~ All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.
:)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#5
I gave scripture showing that they do. Where is your scripture showing that they do NOT?
James 2:24 says you are wrong.
There are dozens of Scriptures which make it clear that good works save no one. I will give you just one example so that you may reject your false belief. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:5-7)

Do you understand what God says here? Then believe it.
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
667
223
43
#6

Acts 10:43~ All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.
:)
While that verse is true, it in no way refutes or contradicts what I have posted about works. John 6:28-29 STILL says “believing “ is a WORK. And James 2:24 STILL says “by WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED ( Saved) and NOT by FAITH ONLY. So what do you think Acts 10:23 proves? Only that “faith” is one of The Works Of God that saves us!
 
Jul 23, 2024
71
56
18
#7
Most religious people think ALL works are bad. Actually, the Bible talks about both BAD works and GOOD works. Let’s start with the bad works first.
BAD WORKS
EPHESIANS 2:9- “…not of works lest anyone should BOAST.” What are “boastful” works? I suppose those are works that originate with man—his works—that he thinks up himself. They can’t be from God because Luke 17:10 tells us that when we have done what God commands us to do, we cannot boast about it because we have only done OUR DUTY.
GALATIONS 2:16- says, “ We are not justified by “WORKS OF THE LAW.” These are also bad works, in the sense that they will not save us. The entire book of Galations is mostly talking about these kind of works.
Galations 5:19- another kind of bad works is WORKS OF THE FLESH.

GOOD WORKS
JAMES 2:14:-26- talks about many different kinds of “GOOD WORKS.” Some were charitable, such as giving food and clothes to the needy;but also such GOOD WORKS as obeying the commands of God. Those are called GOOD WORKS and he uses the example of Abraham offering his son Issac as a sacrifice. So obeying God’s commandments are GOOD WORKS that James says we are JUSTIFIED by these kinds of works. It’s very important to see that knowing what KIND OF WORKS makes all the difference in understanding the scriptures properly. Because in one scripture, the Bible says we are NOT justified by “works” (Ephesians 2:9) and in another scripture the Bible says we ARE justified by works ( James 2:24). Someone could easily argue that the Bible contradicts itself. Not so. It is imperative that we understand WHAT KIND OF WORKS are being discussed in each passage.

One other kind of GOOD WORKS that saves us are the WORKS OF GOD in John 6:28-29. Jesus’s disciples said to Him, “ What must we do to WORK. the WORKS OF GOD? This verse clearly tells us that there ARE things we must do. The disciples knew this and Jesus confirms it. Jesus said, “This is the WORK OF GOD THAT YOU BELIEVE in Him whom He sent.” Jesus says that believing is a WORK!! But it is one of the GOOD works that are from God and are part of our salvation. There are other scriptures that tell us that faith is a work—one is in 2 Thess. 1:11–“ THE WORK OF FAITH…”. The crucial question here is…do you believe the Bible? Do you believe what God said? If Faith is a work, and I don’t doubt it because Jesus says that it is, then that makes “repentance a WORK OF GOD, too and “CONFESSION” IS A WORK OF GOD; and “BAPTISM” is a WORK OF GOD. They are “works” of God because they originated with God—not man—and they are all commanded by God. They are HIS works—not man’s works. Isn’t this exactly what Jesus asked the Jews in Mark 11:30? He said, “John’s baptism—was it from heaven or from men?” They would not answer. They knew if they said, “From heaven.” He would say then why haven’t you obeyed it? Well, if John’s baptism was from heaven, how much more the baptism of Jesus the Messiah!

So, to the followers of John Calvin who want to say that we are NOT SAVED BY WORKS—actuallly, we. ARE! We are saved by DOING the WORKS OF GOD. because Jesus said FAITH IS A WORK and we all agree that faith is necessary to be saved. And to those same people who say baptism is a WORK, you are right!! It is a WORK OF GOD—it came from God-not man, and it was commanded by God (Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:48). So when you say. “ we are not saved by works.” It is important that you identify which works. Because ABSOLUTELY we are NOT saved by “boastful works” or “works of the old law of Moses” and certainly not by “works of the flesh. BUT We ARE Isaved by the WORKS OF GOD.
I am not going to argue anything because, based on what the Bible says, you are painting faith as a work of God and if that is the case then, maybe you are in somewhat right, but I hope you understand that I personally do not care what Calvin said or any other man, I follow and believe what Bible say and that´s all. Let's put it this way, faith is the only work by which we can be saved because, if it is by some other work, then we are not understanding each other.
 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
2,120
805
113
65
Colorado, USA
#8
While that verse is true, it in no way refutes or contradicts what I have posted about works. John 6:28-29 STILL says “believing “ is a WORK. And James 2:24 STILL says “by WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED ( Saved) and NOT by FAITH ONLY. So what do you think Acts 10:23 proves? Only that “faith” is one of The Works Of God that saves us!
Keep working. You're almost there.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,101
30,227
113
#9
While that verse is true, it in no way refutes or contradicts what I have posted about works. John 6:28-29 STILL says “believing “ is a WORK. And James 2:24 STILL says “by WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED ( Saved) and NOT by FAITH ONLY. So what do you think Acts 10:23 proves? Only that “faith” is one of The Works Of God that saves us!

1 Corinthians 4:7b; John 3:27; Romans 9:15-16 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
:)
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
3,045
1,003
113
45
#11
Most religious people think ALL works are bad. Actually, the Bible talks about both BAD works and GOOD works.
Here's the thing about works, we can only do works that please the Father AFTER we are saved. Until we see "our way" for the trash path to death that it is and we are granted repentance, a gift from God, and born again (spiritually resurrected and reconnected to His Spirit) then we CANNOT please Him at all. No matter how many "works" we do on our own they're filthy rags to Him until we are changed by Him in truth, by grace through faith in Jesus. So bad works would be anything we do before being born again and "good works" are any we do after we have been transformed by His power. Not a hard concept at all for those with eyes to see and ears to hear, and foolishness for those who are perishing.
 

Bruce_Leiter

Active member
Feb 17, 2023
427
193
43
#12
Most religious people think ALL works are bad. Actually, the Bible talks about both BAD works and GOOD works. Let’s start with the bad works first.
BAD WORKS
EPHESIANS 2:9- “…not of works lest anyone should BOAST.” What are “boastful” works? I suppose those are works that originate with man—his works—that he thinks up himself. They can’t be from God because Luke 17:10 tells us that when we have done what God commands us to do, we cannot boast about it because we have only done OUR DUTY.
GALATIONS 2:16- says, “ We are not justified by “WORKS OF THE LAW.” These are also bad works, in the sense that they will not save us. The entire book of Galations is mostly talking about these kind of works.
Galations 5:19- another kind of bad works is WORKS OF THE FLESH.

GOOD WORKS
JAMES 2:14:-26- talks about many different kinds of “GOOD WORKS.” Some were charitable, such as giving food and clothes to the needy;but also such GOOD WORKS as obeying the commands of God. Those are called GOOD WORKS and he uses the example of Abraham offering his son Issac as a sacrifice. So obeying God’s commandments are GOOD WORKS that James says we are JUSTIFIED by these kinds of works. It’s very important to see that knowing what KIND OF WORKS makes all the difference in understanding the scriptures properly. Because in one scripture, the Bible says we are NOT justified by “works” (Ephesians 2:9) and in another scripture the Bible says we ARE justified by works ( James 2:24). Someone could easily argue that the Bible contradicts itself. Not so. It is imperative that we understand WHAT KIND OF WORKS are being discussed in each passage.

One other kind of GOOD WORKS that saves us are the WORKS OF GOD in John 6:28-29. Jesus’s disciples said to Him, “ What must we do to WORK. the WORKS OF GOD? This verse clearly tells us that there ARE things we must do. The disciples knew this and Jesus confirms it. Jesus said, “This is the WORK OF GOD THAT YOU BELIEVE in Him whom He sent.” Jesus says that believing is a WORK!! But it is one of the GOOD works that are from God and are part of our salvation. There are other scriptures that tell us that faith is a work—one is in 2 Thess. 1:11–“ THE WORK OF FAITH…”. The crucial question here is…do you believe the Bible? Do you believe what God said? If Faith is a work, and I don’t doubt it because Jesus says that it is, then that makes “repentance a WORK OF GOD, too and “CONFESSION” IS A WORK OF GOD; and “BAPTISM” is a WORK OF GOD. They are “works” of God because they originated with God—not man—and they are all commanded by God. They are HIS works—not man’s works. Isn’t this exactly what Jesus asked the Jews in Mark 11:30? He said, “John’s baptism—was it from heaven or from men?” They would not answer. They knew if they said, “From heaven.” He would say then why haven’t you obeyed it? Well, if John’s baptism was from heaven, how much more the baptism of Jesus the Messiah!

So, to the followers of John Calvin who want to say that we are NOT SAVED BY WORKS—actuallly, we. ARE! We are saved by DOING the WORKS OF GOD. because Jesus said FAITH IS A WORK and we all agree that faith is necessary to be saved. And to those same people who say baptism is a WORK, you are right!! It is a WORK OF GOD—it came from God-not man, and it was commanded by God (Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:48). So when you say. “ we are not saved by works.” It is important that you identify which works. Because ABSOLUTELY we are NOT saved by “boastful works” or “works of the old law of Moses” and certainly not by “works of the flesh. BUT We ARE Isaved by the WORKS OF GOD.
A suggestion: Don't pick out a verse without considering the full context of that verse. You quote Ephesians 2:9, but the following verse says that we are God's work of art showing his good works to people around us, only to his credit. Go back to chapter one, and you see that God planned our salvation from before he created anything. In 2:1-3, Paul says that we were spiritually stillborn and then if we become believers, he does it by making us alive from spiritual death by grace through faith, his free gift 2:4-9. The result is God's good works done through us (2:10).
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,705
542
113
#13
While that verse is true, it in no way refutes or contradicts what I have posted about works. John 6:28-29 STILL says “believing “ is a WORK. And James 2:24 STILL says “by WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED ( Saved) and NOT by FAITH ONLY. So what do you think Acts 10:23 proves? Only that “faith” is one of The Works Of God that saves us!
When your obedience is perfect or anyone else’s is, besides God’s. Then i can punish and so can you
God simply just loves us all, we are reconciled to believe and be free to not cause problems between anyone
i hope you find peace.
the grace of God is beyond understanding to any flesh and blood. The new life offered in the risen Christ, sees new from Father’s view
“ I” love you, unconditionally my response thanksgiving and praise. New life has entered, me or anyo being willing.

God solved the problem through Son Jesus on that cross, so we can rest and cross over in the same care, given us first.
‘thanks, as your posts, i have seen and read are troublesome, creating problems, not freedom in loving care of Father and Son given to us to appreciate and not force anyone to see things there way, in their interpretations of scriptures
‘love you as God loves us all, to be free, not under stress as it seems you ar promoting
no thanks, God just loves us all, not a few, or only those that do as others think to do or not do.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,705
542
113
#14
While that verse is true, it in no way refutes or contradicts what I have posted about works. John 6:28-29 STILL says “believing “ is a WORK. And James 2:24 STILL says “by WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED ( Saved) and NOT by FAITH ONLY. So what do you think Acts 10:23 proves? Only that “faith” is one of The Works Of God that saves us!
By God's done work man is justified and there does the done work of God through them in love to all, as is done for all on that cross for us all 1 John 2:1-12
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,705
542
113
#15

1 Corinthians 4:7b; John 3:27; Romans 9:15-16 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
:)
Lord have mercy on. me

Luke 18:13-14

Authorized (King James) Version

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Today after the cross we are reconciled, Forgiven by god through Son.
Amazing Grace in thanksgiving and praise, Wow, woe is me continuously
A Gift
G-od
I-nstalls
F-orever
T-ruth
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
667
223
43
#19
There are dozens of Scriptures which make it clear that good works save no one. I will give you just one example so that you may reject your false belief. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:5-7)

Do you understand what God says here? Then believe it.
“Works of righteousness which WE have done” are the same kinds of works in Ephesians 2, of which we can “boast.” They are OUR ( man’s works) not God’s. If it had said, “not of “GOD’s works of righteousness” then you might have something that would contradict James 2.

Havevyouvever heard of the “not, but” construction?
I am not going to argue anything because, based on what the Bible says, you are painting faith as a work of God and if that is the case then, maybe you are in somewhat right, but I hope you understand that I personally do not care what Calvin said or any other man, I follow and believe what Bible say and that´s all. Let's put it this way, faith is the only work by which we can be saved because, if it is by some other work, then we are not understanding each other.
The Bible does not say that faith is The only work by which we can are saved. We have to be careful not to add the word “only” where God has not added it. That is a common mistake by those espousing the “faith only” doctrine. Every passage about faith they interpret as faith “alone”. Although the word is not there. James 2:22 says that faith and works work together. Do you agree that repentance and confession are necessary to be saved? If so, then they must be works of God also. Do you agree?