Are catholics Christian?

[Praus]

Ok. They were worshipping the golden calf itself. But the ones kneeling in front of the statue of Mary are adoring what that statue represents, not the actual shaped concrete. Just like when we kneel in front of a wooden cross or a statue of Christ, we are showing reverence to what it represents, which is Christ, not the statue. Why do people keep getting this fact mixed up? It's really very simple for the logically minded. People keep comparing these two totally different acts, wrongfully. If I was told or taught to worship the concrete, I would leave the Catholic Church. Trust me.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/41911-catholic-heresy-record.html

Very good, the last photos were Medjugorje, the apparition will probably never be accepted as infallible (or in any other way) by the Vatican. The good news is that Our Lady of Guadalupe (Empress of America and Queen of Mexico) has been accepted as infallible. Global Catholicism!

 

[7seven7]

If you really think I changed the meaning, read the whole chapter:
here's verse 5 and 6.
Exo32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built analtar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast tothe LORD.

Feast to the Lord, not to the calf.

Exo 32:6 And theyrose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peaceofferings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

It just not wrong a catholic, but all idolatries. Muslims, Hindus, Budhist etc.

The same way, they have feast to the ......and offered burnt offerings and brought peace offering ....

PHEWWW!! What a long day! Boy, am I glad that's over lol.....
Ok, brother, this is what I meant. First I'll post that WHOLE of that passage up for us to see:

The Gold Calf

32 Now when the people saw that Moses delayed coming down from the mountain, the people gathered together to Aaron, and said to him, “Come, make us gods that shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.”
2 And Aaron said to them, “Break off the golden earrings which are in the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me.” 3 So all the people broke off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them to Aaron. 4 And he received the gold from their hand, and he fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made a molded calf.
Then they said, “This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!”
5 So when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow is a feast to the Lord.” 6 Then they rose early on the next day, offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
7 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go, get down! For your people whom you brought out of the land of Egypt have corrupted themselves. 8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them. They have made themselves a molded calf, and worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!’”

You see, brother, you chose the parts in red, leaving out the parts in blue that clearly show that the molded calf was a god totally separate to the Almighty God! A totally different god altogether. They said themselves in vs. 3 that this (the calf) was now their god that brought them out of Egypt, totally relieving the Almighty One True God of this credit.
Also in vs. 1, they asked Aaron to make them gods. Not to show them God, or to lead them to God, or to make them a resemblance of God. No, they asked Aaron to make them gods. Obviously new gods because they said that they don't know what has become of Moses, and they thought that the True God has abandoned them. So they were asking for a replacement.

So, now, you were right to say that we, Catholics, THINK OF GOD when the statue is in front of us. The Isrealites did not do this. The golden calf WAS their god. Do you see what I meant when I said you left out the important parts and changed the meaning of that particular chapter? It is SO OBVIOUS that they were worshipping the actual calf, just as it is SO OBVIOUS that we Catholics DO NOT worship the statue.

P.S- Even God told moses that the Isrealites worshipped and sacrificed TO THE CALF!!! God was upset that they worshipped a DIFFERENT god

 

[NiceneCreed]

There are many versions of catholics now, like couples for Christ, singles for Christ, but are they really Christians of the bible?

Yes, Catholics are Christians.

 

[7seven7]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/41911-catholic-heresy-record.html

Very good, the last photos were Medjugorje, the apparition will probably never be accepted as infallible (or in any other way) by the Vatican. The good news is that Our Lady of Guadalupe (Empress of America and Queen of Mexico) has been accepted as infallible. Global Catholicism!

lol You seem to be deceived easily by cartoon pictures. Don't watch X-men. You might try climbing walls or jumping real high or something hahaha jk bro. God bless you.

 

[Kerry]

To the OP, Is the Pope Christ replacement on Earth, well thats what they teach. It is an occult. Based on works just like Buddhism so no it is not Christian. But, Many Catholics love Jesus and I expect to see them on the other side and praise God for that. God uses whatever He can to reach people. Amen.

 

[7seven7]

Praise the Lord

 

[Kerry]

To the OP, we, as Catholics know that there can never be a replacement for Christ cz God had but ONE Son. The Holy Catholic Church does not teach that the pope is Christ's replacement. We are Christians. Amen.

Not if you are die hard Roman Catholic, if so your allegiance is to the Pope as Christ replacement on Earth. That is not the way that Christ taught.

 

[Praus]

lol You seem to be deceived easily by cartoon pictures. Don't watch X-men. You might try climbing walls or jumping real high or something hahaha jk bro. God bless you.

Referring to human persons such as Mexican Catholics as "cartoons" is racist.

Fortunately you can offer "Mary"-juana or US dollars to "Our Lady" and she'll forgive you.

I live in East Los Angeles, these are my neighbors. Roman Catholicism is a global religion, are you sure this is Christianity?

 

[watcher2013]

PHEWWW!! What a long day! Boy, am I glad that's over lol.....
Ok, brother, this is what I meant. First I'll post that WHOLE of that passage up for us to see:

The Gold Calf

32 Now when the people saw that Moses delayed coming down from the mountain, the people gathered together to Aaron, and said to him, “Come, make us gods that shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.”
2 And Aaron said to them, “Break off the golden earrings which are in the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me.” 3 So all the people broke off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them to Aaron. 4 And he received the gold from their hand, and he fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made a molded calf.
Then they said, “This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!”
5 So when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow is a feast to the Lord.” 6 Then they rose early on the next day, offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
7 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go, get down! For your people whom you brought out of the land of Egypt have corrupted themselves. 8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them. They have made themselves a molded calf, and worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!’”

You see, brother, you chose the parts in red, leaving out the parts in blue that clearly show that the molded calf was a god totally separate to the Almighty God! A totally different god altogether. They said themselves in vs. 3 that this (the calf) was now their god that brought them out of Egypt, totally relieving the Almighty One True God of this credit.
Also in vs. 1, they asked Aaron to make them gods. Not to show them God, or to lead them to God, or to make them a resemblance of God. No, they asked Aaron to make them gods. Obviously new gods because they said that they don't know what has become of Moses, and they thought that the True God has abandoned them. So they were asking for a replacement.

So, now, you were right to say that we, Catholics, THINK OF GOD when the statue is in front of us. The Isrealites did not do this. The golden calf WAS their god. Do you see what I meant when I said you left out the important parts and changed the meaning of that particular chapter? It is SO OBVIOUS that they were worshipping the actual calf, just as it is SO OBVIOUS that we Catholics DO NOT worship the statue.

P.S- Even God told moses that the Isrealites worshipped and sacrificed TO THE CALF!!! God was upset that they worshipped a DIFFERENT god

"This is your god, Oh Israel that brought you out of the land of Egypt".
Indeed Moses was out they think they abandoned them, they made a calf to represent the God who brought them out of the land of egypt.

1. They know that the God of moses did bring them out of the land of egypt.
2. The calf was made after they come out.
3. For sure the calf was not there when the God of moses brought them out of the land of egypt.
4. It was when they were not sure were Moses were gone that they made a calf to represent the God who brought them out of the land of egypt.
Thus "this is your gods, oh Israel that brought you out of the land of egypt".

"Obviously new gods because they said that they don't know what has become of Moses, and they thought that the True God has abandoned them. So they were asking for a replacement"

Note: The calf has not done anything yet, but it represent/ the God who brought them out of the land of egypt.

this be your gods that brought you out of the land of egypt.

We cannot replace God, Its not like a job that you can replace Him. (He was, and is and forever be God) , however you can choose to believe Him as the God who does not dwell in things made by hands or you can look for images (calf, man, woman, snake, etc) to represents your gods.

Have a great day.

 

[Praus]

Yes, Catholics are Christians.

Matt 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews! (KJV)

Mark 15:17 And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head, (KJV)

John 19:2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe, (KJV)

John 19:5 Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man! (KJV)

 

[7seven7]

"This is your god, Oh Israel that brought you out of the land of Egypt".
Indeed Moses was out they think they abandoned them, they made a calf to represent the God who brought them out of the land of egypt.

1. They know that the God of moses did bring them out of the land of egypt.
2. The calf was made after they come out.
3. For sure the calf was not there when the God of moses brought them out of the land of egypt.
4. It was when they were not sure were Moses were gone that they made a calf to represent the God who brought them out of the land of egypt.
Thus "this is your gods, oh Israel that brought you out of the land of egypt".

"Obviously new gods because they said that they don't know what has become of Moses, and they thought that the True God has abandoned them. So they were asking for a replacement"

Note: The calf has not done anything yet, but it represent/ the God who brought them out of the land of egypt.

this be your gods that brought you out of the land of egypt.

We cannot replace God, Its not like a job that you can replace Him. (He was, and is and forever be God) , however you can choose to believe Him as the God who does not dwell in things made by hands or you can look for images (calf, man, woman, snake, etc) to represents your gods.

Have a great day.

You are absolutely right. We cannot replace God, and we understand that. They, the Isrealites, obviously didn't understand that and looked to replace Him, which is why He was upset. They weren't looking for something to represent God. They built themselves a god.
Ok, let's look at it from your perspective. They built this calf, you say, to represent God. So they, not knowing who God really is, decided to build this golden calf and call it God. Right? So this became "God". They turned the real God into this golden calf. "They have made themselves a molded calf, and worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!’”
They worshipped IT and sacrificed to IT and said THIS IS YOUR GOD! We Catholics DON'T worship the concrete statues or sacrifice to them, and we don't call them our God. No matter which way you interpret this bit of Scripture, it does not fit your accusations against the Catholic Church on idol worship. Had that golden calf fallen and broken, the Isrealites would've thought it was the end of the world. When our statues or images or whatever fall and break, we throw them away and buy another one. Can you not see my point?

 

[notuptome]

You are absolutely right. We cannot replace God, and we understand that. They, the Isrealites, obviously didn't understand that and looked to replace Him, which is why He was upset. They weren't looking for something to represent God. They built themselves a god.
Ok, let's look at it from your perspective. They built this calf, you say, to represent God. So they, not knowing who God really is, decided to build this golden calf and call it God. Right? So this became "God". They turned the real God into this golden calf. "They have made themselves a molded calf, and worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!’”
They worshipped IT and sacrificed to IT and said THIS IS YOUR GOD! We Catholics DON'T worship the concrete statues or sacrifice to them, and we don't call them our God. No matter which way you interpret this bit of Scripture, it does not fit your accusations against the Catholic Church on idol worship. Had that golden calf fallen and broken, the Isrealites would've thought it was the end of the world. When our statues or images or whatever fall and break, we throw them away and buy another one. Can you not see my point?

Really? Now you claim it's only a disposable religion? Perhaps in your local parish it may be that way but there are parts of the world where catholics believe that their statues bleed or cry and they certainly worship these events. How many catholic churches have claimed to have Peters head in their sanctuary? A local parish recently built a new church and were careful to transfer the bones of a saint from the old altar to the new one. Statues and relics are a really big part of the catholic religion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seven7]

Referring to human persons such as Mexican Catholics as "cartoons" is racist.

Fortunately you can offer "Mary"-juana or US dollars to "Our Lady" and she'll forgive you.

I live in East Los Angeles, these are my neighbors. Roman Catholicism is a global religion, are you sure this is Christianity?

Hahahaha there you go trying to get a bite out of me again, Praus. You know very well that I wasn't talking about the Mexicans, but the pictures above them. As for the whole thing about paying Mary to forgive you, that can't be endorsed by the Vatican, because the Vatican doesn't teach that forgiveness comes from Mary. Either you have misunderstood them, OR whoever is in charge of that particular parish is involved in extreme herecy and should be reported to the appropriate Catholic channels. Any Catholic with half a brain will know how false that is. Peace!

 

[7seven7]

Really? Now you claim it's only a disposable religion? Perhaps in your local parish it may be that way but there are parts of the world where catholics believe that their statues bleed or cry and they certainly worship these events. How many catholic churches have claimed to have Peters head in their sanctuary? A local parish recently built a new church and were careful to transfer the bones of a saint from the old altar to the new one. Statues and relics are a really big part of the catholic religion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

C'mon Roger. Lets not get mixed up with just your average picture or statue and the statue that has had a miracle occur on it. But just because that statue has had a miracle occur with it, STILL doesn't mean we call it our God!! And STILL leads us to worship the One and True God!! If you don't believe those miracles, then that's up to you. I don't blame you. Faith is a hard thing to practice. What about all those Catholics that have been cured from deadly sicknesses and claim that they were visited by Christ in their sleep? I suppose you don't believe them either because they were Catholic? Brother, seriously, people have to stop looking for a way to accuse the Catholic Church in everything that happens. There is a defense for every one of your accusations. Just search for it, instead of stopping at pointing fingers. Peace.

 

[7seven7]

Really? Now you claim it's only a disposable religion? Perhaps in your local parish it may be that way but there are parts of the world where catholics believe that their statues bleed or cry and they certainly worship these events. How many catholic churches have claimed to have Peters head in their sanctuary? A local parish recently built a new church and were careful to transfer the bones of a saint from the old altar to the new one. Statues and relics are a really big part of the catholic religion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And what do you mean by "disposable religion"?

 

[watcher2013]

You are absolutely right. We cannot replace God, and we understand that. They, the Isrealites, obviously didn't understand that and looked to replace Him, which is why He was upset. They weren't looking for something to represent God. They built themselves a god.
Ok, let's look at it from your perspective. They built this calf, you say, to represent God. So they, not knowing who God really is, decided to build this golden calf and call it God. Right? So this became "God". They turned the real God into this golden calf. "They have made themselves a molded calf, and worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!’”
They worshipped IT and sacrificed to IT and said THIS IS YOUR GOD! We Catholics DON'T worship the concrete statues or sacrifice to them, and we don't call them our God. No matter which way you interpret this bit of Scripture, it does not fit your accusations against the Catholic Church on idol worship. Had that golden calf fallen and broken, the Isrealites would've thought it was the end of the world. When our statues or images or whatever fall and break, we throw them away and buy another one. Can you not see my point?

Had that golden calf fallen and broken, the Isrealites would've thought it was the end of the world. When our statues or images or whatever fall and break, we throw them away and buy another one. Can you not see my point

these are the children of Israel after the first calf.

2Ki 17:16 And theyleft all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images,even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, andserved Baal.

Not the end of the world to them...and they built another this time two....

Can you see the similarity...
The Israelites think too they worship God...

 

[7seven7]

Had that golden calf fallen and broken, the Isrealites would've thought it was the end of the world. When our statues or images or whatever fall and break, we throw them away and buy another one. Can you not see my point

these are the children of Israel after the first calf.

2Ki 17:16 And theyleft all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images,even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, andserved Baal.

Not the end of the world to them...and they built another this time two....

Can you see the similarity...
The Israelites think too they worship God...

2 Kings 17
13 Yet the Lord testified against Israel and against Judah, by all of His prophets, every seer, saying, “Turn from your evil ways, and keep My commandments and My statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by My servants the prophets.” 14 Nevertheless they would not hear, but stiffened their necks, like the necks of their fathers, who did not believe in the Lord their God. 15 And they rejected His statutes and His covenant that He had made with their fathers, and His testimonies which He had testified against them; they followed idols, became idolaters, and went after the nations who were all around them, concerning whom the Lord had charged them that they should not do like them. 16 So they left all the commandments of the Lord their God, made for themselves a molded image and two calves, made a wooden image and worshiped all the host of heaven, and served Baal. 17 And they caused their sons and daughters to pass through the fire, practiced witchcraft and soothsaying, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger. 18 Therefore the Lord was very angry with Israel, and removed them from His sight; there was none left but the tribe of Judah alone.

I really don't see this similarity you're pointing out to me between these people and Catholics. It tells us here that they left the commandments of the Lord their God, made some calves, then served Baal. Witchcraft and soothsaying? brother, how are you connecting all this to Catholicism? lol please tell me. But also think about this. If you tried, could you also relate it to other religions? And if you can, why was Catholicism your religion of choice to attack? Just food for thought. But we'll start off with connecting all this to Catholicism.

 

[7seven7]

Catch you all tomorrow. I need sleep. God bless and watch over you all.

 

[watcher2013]

2 Kings 17
13 Yet the Lord testified against Israel and against Judah, by all of His prophets, every seer, saying, “Turn from your evil ways, and keep My commandments and My statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by My servants the prophets.” 14 Nevertheless they would not hear, but stiffened their necks, like the necks of their fathers, who did not believe in the Lord their God. 15 And they rejected His statutes and His covenant that He had made with their fathers, and His testimonies which He had testified against them; they followed idols, became idolaters, and went after the nations who were all around them, concerning whom the Lord had charged them that they should not do like them. 16 So they left all the commandments of the Lord their God, made for themselves a molded image and two calves, made a wooden image and worshiped all the host of heaven, and served Baal. 17 And they caused their sons and daughters to pass through the fire, practiced witchcraft and soothsaying, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger. 18 Therefore the Lord was very angry with Israel, and removed them from His sight; there was none left but the tribe of Judah alone.

I really don't see this similarity you're pointing out to me between these people and Catholics. It tells us here that they left the commandments of the Lord their God, made some calves, then served Baal. Witchcraft and soothsaying? brother, how are you connecting all this to Catholicism? lol please tell me. But also think about this. If you tried, could you also relate it to other religions? And if you can, why was Catholicism your religion of choice to attack? Just food for thought. But we'll start off with connecting all this to Catholicism.

are you not reading my posts, I did say that it applies to all idolatries including muslims, hindu's, budhist. and many more, in this thread however "catholics" are discussed.

you cannot see the similarity...

you did said and I quote

"Had that golden calf fallen and broken, the Isrealites would've thought it was the end of the world. When our statues or images or whatever fall and break, we throw them away and buy another one. Can you not see my point"

you have differentiate catholics and what the Israelites did by comparing when your images break, you throw them away and buy another... while to the Israelites it was the end of the world..

what I did is show you that after the first calf was ground and burn by Moses, the Israelite made them again.... Like what catholics as you say the catholics do when their statue break or fall.

We are only talking about idolatries... don't get me starting with witchcraft and soothsaying...

you said catholics do not worship the statue but what it represents

Who represent the lady in the pictures? Mary, (was mary black or white) even if it represent mary, by your logic catholics worship Mary?

your laughter is evident the your argument is starting to crumble and also by diverting the topic at hand...

we can agree to disagree and there is no harm in trying to pursue for the truth...

 

[homwardbound]

It is just a simple question. requiring a simple answer.
are you having difficulties saying "yes" or "no", just add ............ when it say it is short.

Do not know what you are looking for, but I did answer it.
Being born again, my old self is dead and am alive in God by God by the resurrected Christ period.
Know just as the apostles
Acts 17:28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.